Should I paint lifter galley?
 

I'm starting to get parts around to rebuild my 351w fpr my '82.
Last night I painted the block but was debating if I should paint the lifter galley or not. I read in some mags that painting the lifter galley promotes better oil return to the crank case because the surface is smoother.
I'm using VHT high temperature engine paint.
Has anyone tried this or heard about it?

My vote is no,just dont like the idea of paint particles possibly inside my motor

I wouldn't, sounds too much liks using sand paper to scuff the outside of rod bearings. Sand paper and bearings should never be in the same sentance!!

I paint the valley on all my motors. If you do it just make sure the metal is spotless clean and use brake cleaner not carb cleaner for the last stage of cleaning because it will strip off any chemicals you used to clean it and when it evaporates it leaves no residue behind.

My block was hot tanked so I should be good to go then.

Still use brake cleaner to clean offf the block there is chemical residue left over from hot tanking the block.

not a good idea folks.

I've never painted an engine.. but...

a) you're not going to see it
b) it's allways coated with oil so it wont rust or anything
c) why take the chance of the paint peeling up and crapping up the inside of your engine

that's just how I see it... plus it's easier not to, even if you were to paint it, you've have to mask off all the lifter holes and oil holes... hardly seems worth the effort... gravity will get your oil back down, getting to the top is the hardpart.

-=as

mine is painted...its a special paint for this..and yes..it is to help oil run back to the pan faster...it is called Glyptal...you can buy it from eastwoodco.com

http://www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan/engine1.jpg

Thanks DEMON . I knew I heard of that before.
Chunkfunky , I think you totally misssed the entire point of painting the lifter gally.

I understood why one would do it... but I just didnt think it was worth it. It's one of those gambles, is it worth getting wierd paint chips in your oil for the return of the oil to come down faster... I suppose if you have special paint designed for such a purpose it makes it more worth while.
-as

you can go to eastwoodco.com and search Glyptal to find the product....gives a little more info....i wouldnt worry bout paint chips and stuff like that....im sure the ppl who made that stuff have already thought of that

Man, I think if you're thinking that a coating of paint is gonna help get the oil back to the pan faster you may be right, but so what? Think about it. How many times have you heard of someone saying, "Man, I blew up my motor because I didn't have painted surfaces on the lifter valley so the oil didn't run back to the pan fast enough!" ?????? NEVER. Engines are designed with oil supply in mind. When the engineers at ford decide what oil capacity to give the engine, they take into consideration the amount of oil that is going to accumulate in the lifter valley while the engine is running. An engine only has maybe a couple of quarts of oil actually being used to lubricate at any one time. Part of the reason that you have 5 quarts of oil in a motor is because some of it is going to accumulate on top of the heads and in the lifter valley. A little paint isn't going to magically force the oil back to the pan, it might make it run down quicker, but like I said, so what. So if you're just wanting to be able to say, "Yeah, I painted my lifter valley because it makes the oil flow back to the pan faster" That's your thing, but when you post a quote saying, "Man, I got paint chips in my oil sump screen and blew up my brand new motor" I'm gonna laugh and say I told you so. I mean honestly, ask anyone who's ever painted a block. Unless that thing is perfectly clean with no residue the paint isn't going to stick for ever. Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to knock you, but it seems foolish to me to put foreign objects into your engine on purpose. Anyway, do what you want man, that's my opinion, but it's your engine, and your money. Paint that sucker if you want.

I hate thread wars and I dont think anyone is right or wrong.. though from a simple view of it all... it takes times and preperation to paint it and there's nothing wrong with that.. but I think the return on investment isnt worth it. Oil likes ot eat away at things... I pulled my stock distributer out this weekend and I was trying to pull off the O ring to replace it and it shattered into a million pieces. I dont think this paint is a rubber o ring or anything... but nothing last forever, and the inside of your engine is very HOT and nasty place to live.
-as

Go ahead and paint it using the right stuff. You're not gonna lose anything by it, and only gain some extra oil flow.

IMO, spinning a High Volume pump robs some horsepower, so adding a windage tray would help, so would making the oil flow "free-er" through the engine. Makes sense to me.

"Who cares if the oil gets back to the pan faster?" I don't know about you but I want my main/rod bearings lubricated as fast as the oil can get there.
I love my Fords but they do not have the best oiling system. That honor, I hate to admit, goes to Chevy....sad but true
I don't see you callingDEMON crazy for painting his lifter gally.
People use windage trays in their oil pans for better oil control but you don't have to use one. You see what I'm saying?
Every little bit helps.
I guess everytime you hear of someone blowing their engine you are going to say "You didn't paint your lifter gally..did you? It's probably why it blew up!! "
I'd also think twice about laughing at someone after their engine just blew uo too...for whatever caused it unless you have a magic crystal and can guarantee that you will never have car problems yourself for as long as you live.
FYI, I read that artical about painting lifter gallys in some performance book a while ago. Why the hell would they recommend doing that if it can cause damage?
I didn't pull that topic out of my ***hole.

The worst part of these message boards is the battles back and forth sorry, but the post asked should I paint it?? QuantumMotorsports gave you his opinion and backed it up with some good reasoning If I had answered you it would have been very similar. Try searching around and see if anyone has painted their oil galleys and tore there engines apart 5 years later and still was in good shape (no flaking or dissolving) maybe the paint works great and never comes off. Just something I'm not willing to support and say it is a good idea to paint inside your motor.

actually, the windsor small blocks have an excellent oiling system.

Paint it if you want, but its not going to make any difference of note on a street motor.

sounds like you made up your mind to paint it already, so why even ask others opinions?

here is a few more pics

http://www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan/enginefront.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan/engineside.jpg


all i can say is..to each his own..if you wanna paint it..paint it..if you dont wanna sit there and worry bout it...dont paint it...but like 82 GT said "every little bit helps" ...just like why ppl put underdrive pulleys on there car..or a K&N filter...its not going to make your car go from 14 sec to 12 sec but it helps....

I didn't know weather or not I should paint it at first or not until I read Demon's reply and a coupe others on here.
I figured they can't all be stupid.
If I remember correct, I think SHAGGY paints all his lifter gallys. Why would he keep doing that if it did harm to the engine?
The only point we all agreed upon was not to use regular paint.
I found out it could be done as long as the proper materials are used.
So, yeah, I am going to paint it.

I have stayed out of it just because I don't like to get into flame wars but Yes I did say I paint every motor I build have yet to have one come back because of paint blocking a pickup screen. Hell I have yet to see one that the paint has even started to peal on, that may not be a fair test as the motors I have gone back through are usually at most a season old before it gets stripped down and redone though I have seen a few that have had extended use such as my street car. Now what I have seen in actually several instances is in a "loose" wet sump motor with a high volume pump running for extended high RPM suck a oil pan dry, so while painting doesn't actually add any power the fact that I know my oil will be in the pan coming off a straight (most of my motors are in road race cars) give me allot more comfort plus if I pull a motor failure apart and it has been oil starved that is one less thing I have to worry about. Now as far as drag racing will a street motor ever run at high enough rpm long enough? probably not, but does it hurt to paint it? IMHO, no And I will even post the down side to try and be as fair and truthful to my knowledge, in any motor without a windage system( ie: tray/screen ) it would probably actually cost you power because you have more oil in the pan at any given point creating more actual windage as the crank swings by.

PS: on the ford oiling system, I agree with parts of both peoples statement, the actual passages and amounts through them is better on a Chevy (stock to stock) but the ford oil pump is 10 times better then the Chevy pump(have you ever noticed about 90% of the Chevy "race" pumps are actually the same gerator design as the stock ford?). Now I would take a small journal Windsor with restrictors in it any day over a Chevy block though.

thats about it........:cool:

Hey man, while you're at it, paint the underside of your valve covers, the top of your heads, the underside of your intake, the inside of your block. I wonder if it would help to paint your bearing surfaces too. Sorry if I'm a little cynical sometimes, but I honestly can't believe that painting the surfaces is going to make a bit of difference. Underdrive pulleys i can see making a small difference, maybe not a noticable one, but a small one. It makes sense, accesories cause drag on the motor. But there are thousands of racers that have all out drag motors that don't have painted surfaces and if they ever have problems with oiling the motor, it's usually because they put a high volume pump in, or some other problem unrelated to oil collecting in places other than the pan. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was thrashing you man, no harm intended. Just thought your time and money might be better spent elsewhere. And you guys talk about all of these articles where people recommend it. You are the kind of people who go out and buy oxyclean by the gallon from a 3:00 am infomercial. Just my opinion, take it for what it is. Hey man If you get it done and it works out for you, and your car hawls ***, shout out a post and I'll congradulate you.

I think shaggy's last post sumed it all up. Let's leave it at that. Now enough of this lifter gally painting controversy. I going to paint the damn thing!!

I dont. I think Quantum Motorsports post summed it all up. Lets leave it at that..:)

what ever you sayQuantumMotorsports seeing as your a profesional engine builder and build performence engine for a living..i guess your right....i better get the sander out and remove that paint...dang it...and it looked so nice :rolleyes:

Aww, you guys are just a barrel of monkeys..........:)

:D

Can't stand to see this go on any longer without adding my two cents. First off, I can't believe that there's a professional engine builder out there that hasn't seen painting of the galleys, heads, valve covers or bottom of the intake. If there is, I've got to wonder what kind of engines that professional is building?

At any rate, painting of the galleys, heads, intake, etc is a long-standing engine builders' trick. I've got a 7-qt Canton Pro-Pan on my engine and I've sucked it dry BEFORE the end of the quarter mile with a high volume pump. Not hard to do when you're shifting gears at 7400rpm. That's why you try to promote good oil return. You can promote good return (and control) by doing some simple little tricks like contouring the oil return holes in both the galley and heads, deflashing & painting the oil return surfaces (galley, heads, etc), using baffles & screens, etc. Its just another small part of being in the middle of the crowd or at the front of the pack.

I would also like to add my 2 cents :o I have had mine painted for 4 years now with the special orange paint that DemonGT has posted pics of. There is not one spec of paint that has flaked off or anything. I know for a FACT that it works, and I also recomend it. I have a Canton 7 quart pan with a H/V oil pump and I have never sucked it dry once. I fly down country roads here at 5500rpm for long periods of time and still no problems. There is not a single hint of oil buildup or sludge in the motor when I tare it down for the winters. That includes one year that I ran crappy Castrol GTX to break it in and still no buildup!
Use it if you want to it's your call, but I would. Next time I build a motor I am even going to paint the inside of the pan to keep it nice and clean :)

I think the most important thing to come out of all this is, if you do it, to do it correctly, so as not to have paint peeling problems. To do it correctly would be more trouble than its worth IMO for a street car. Make sure you get it clean with the brake cleaner if that works......

I never said that I build engines professionally. You guys make stuff up. What I'm saying is very straight forward. If you have the money and time to mess with things like that, do it. I don't have the time, or money to be shooting paint on every oiled surface in my engine. And even if I did, I wouldn't do it, because in my opinion it is not worth the effort. The oil is still going to get to the surfaces that need lubed unless you're running with like 1 quart of oil. If you've already painted the inside of your block, that's fine, if you are going to paint the inside of your block, that's fine. My point is, it's your money, do what makes you happy, but like someone already mentioned, if you were so set on painting it anyway, why ask? Just go do what you want to do and everyone else doesn't matter because once again, your money, your engine.

if your not a profesional engine builder....AND you have never done it to your engine before...how can you say the things you said then??

That should hold him over for a while.......:D :D
Excellent point!!!!

It seems that all the people who had doubts about it at first are backpeddling now.
It wasn't such a stupid question after all....now was it....huh?

I cant believe this thread is still going, I find it kinda funny.. but I'll keep it alive...

quote:
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Originally posted by DemonGT
if your not a profesional engine builder....AND you have never done it to your engine before...how can you say the things you said then??
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I've never poured chocolate pudding into my engine (though I have used 70w oil and that's close) but I certainly wouldnt and I would advise people against it. I think this whole thread has turned into a cat fight and it's kinda funny... but when it's all said and done we've got a split disicion. Lots of poeple build thier own engines, but arent proffessional builders. Some people paint thier engines. Some Dont... that's really all we've accomplished. This obviously isnt a cut and dry question. The fact that there's many responses for yes and no just the same, means to me it's a matter of opionion or personal preference. If you wanna do it, do it.. if not, dont... ask yourself if it's worth the time or the money. It seems that it can be done without hurting anything if done correctly... so with that, you're safe to do your thing. Though it may not make a bit of difference.... so with all that said... cant we all just get along.

cause of some of the things QuantumMotorsports said..i felt he was saying thats its dumb to do...and anyone who dose it is dumb and wasting there time etc etc...so i felt the need to defend myself on the topic