lifter bleed-down and RR adjustment?

matt cook · 12-19-2001, 09:19 AM

I am going with 1.7 RR on my motor, It has a flat tappet cam (82 block) here is my question...

The engine has not been run in months, before I adjust the lifters with the proper preload, do I need to fill them with oil, pump them up, or do anything?

I think that I may have to fill them with oil - what is the best way to do this?

thanks

5cu11y · 12-19-2001, 10:02 AM

Using pedestal?

For lifters that were already run, they will be pumped up so as long as the pushrod length is right your rockers will go right on.

For new lifters, it isn't required to soak them in oil first. You just have to make sure that when you bolt down your rockers the lifter preload is right (pushrod length).

matt cook · 12-19-2001, 10:24 AM

yeah, these are pedestal mount on E7's. Yeah the lifters have 100k miles on them, they just haven't been run in months.

If I push down on the pushrod seat in the lifter, there is no movement, but by taking the lifter out and filling it with oil, I can move the plunger? Is this difference what the preload takes up, and will I have problems if the lifters are already 'collapsed'...

I have never done this before and do not know what it should feel like...

thanks

PKRWUD · 12-19-2001, 10:32 AM

Some people argue with me, but I always install lifters the same way, and it always works right the first time.

I get a coffee can and fill it halfway with oil. Then I take the lifters and a pushrod I keep as a tool, and one at a time, place the lifters in the can and pump the air out with the pushrod. It gets to be a workout if the lifters are any good, and can take 5 to 15 minutes each. Stop only when there are no more air bubbles coming out of the bleed hole (alot like bench bleeding a master cylinder). Then I install them and adjust the valves.

Take care,
-Chris

matt cook · 12-19-2001, 10:47 AM

I didn't seem like these lifters had any downward motion (to pump them with a pushrod) until I squeezed a little oil in the side hole... is this normal?

I remembered you posted your method a long time ago pwud- that is what had me thinking

5cu11y · 12-19-2001, 11:40 AM

Yea PKWUD the coffee can is the way. I think the reason the soak isn't necessary though is because of the land behind the oiler in the lifter. I guess this way they will prime to depth without having to bleed down first without breaking.

The reason you can't push them down is because they are primed. Thats why if you leave the old lifters in (ouch) the new rockers will only bolt down. Grab some new lifters and toss em in. If you soak/prime them, be sure and check your geometry since you wont be able to measure lifter preload. If you dont soak them, bolt down the rockers to spec while you dial indicator is on the lifter seat. Make sure preload is cool and your set. The coffee can works sweet though.

FYI, check the rocker pedestals for cracks. 10 bucks for two cylinders is worth it.

matt cook · 12-19-2001, 11:54 AM

so if I am keeping these old lifters - I do not need to do anything even though they have been sitting for months?

help, I'm getting confused here...can you do the coffee can trick with used lifters or is that only a new lifter thing?

5cu11y · 12-19-2001, 03:25 PM

Sorry Matt-

If you leave the old lifters and pushrods, you just bolt down the new rockers. Check the geometry. You won't be able to do anything about the lifter height. Shouldn't have to.

New hydraulic lifters: If you take a new lifter out of the box you'll see that you can push down the pushrod seat about .150" or so. It will be pushed back up by a spring. The hole in the side is where oil from the block comes in. There is a ball check type of valve in there that will let oil in to keep that seat from moving up and down (hydraulic). This is what happens when the seat comes back up. If there is any play in the lifter pushrod rocker valve line, it will be taken up to an extent by this. Once the lifter fills, or primes to a height resulting in zero lash, it stays. A common way of installing new lifters was to bleed them of any air (coffee can trick that PKRWUD said) and intall them. Then they will be hard like the ones in your engine now. However, if you do this then you can't measure preload height (distance the pushrod seat travels when you tighten the rocker). But you don't have to shim alot of cars now either. This is because newer hyd. lifters adjust to a height that is zero lash and stay. Old hydraulic lifters could be over primed (too tall), new ones cannot (anti-pump-up). Or so they say. I can atest to running a high pressure oil pump that didn't over prime comp hyd. lifters.

You don't do anything with old lifters. You could pull them, apply assembly lube, and replace them exactly I guess. I'd leave em.

Confused? I think I had too many beers at our Christmas lunch.

matt cook · 12-19-2001, 03:29 PM

thanks scully - that makes since...I may do the assembly lube thing, but just because I have the time and am anal retentive...

thanks

12-19-2001, 09:19 AM	#1
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	lifter bleed-down and RR adjustment? I am going with 1.7 RR on my motor, It has a flat tappet cam (82 block) here is my question... The engine has not been run in months, before I adjust the lifters with the proper preload, do I need to fill them with oil, pump them up, or do anything? I think that I may have to fill them with oil - what is the best way to do this? thanks __________________ 1982 Mustang GT

12-19-2001, 10:24 AM	#3
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	yeah, these are pedestal mount on E7's. Yeah the lifters have 100k miles on them, they just haven't been run in months. If I push down on the pushrod seat in the lifter, there is no movement, but by taking the lifter out and filling it with oil, I can move the plunger? Is this difference what the preload takes up, and will I have problems if the lifters are already 'collapsed'... I have never done this before and do not know what it should feel like... thanks __________________ 1982 Mustang GT

12-19-2001, 10:32 AM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Some people argue with me, but I always install lifters the same way, and it always works right the first time. I get a coffee can and fill it halfway with oil. Then I take the lifters and a pushrod I keep as a tool, and one at a time, place the lifters in the can and pump the air out with the pushrod. It gets to be a workout if the lifters are any good, and can take 5 to 15 minutes each. Stop only when there are no more air bubbles coming out of the bleed hole (alot like bench bleeding a master cylinder). Then I install them and adjust the valves. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

12-19-2001, 10:47 AM	#5
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	I didn't seem like these lifters had any downward motion (to pump them with a pushrod) until I squeezed a little oil in the side hole... is this normal? I remembered you posted your method a long time ago pwud- that is what had me thinking __________________ 1982 Mustang GT

12-19-2001, 11:54 AM	#7
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	so if I am keeping these old lifters - I do not need to do anything even though they have been sitting for months? help, I'm getting confused here...can you do the coffee can trick with used lifters or is that only a new lifter thing? __________________ 1982 Mustang GT

12-19-2001, 10:02 AM	#2
5cu11y Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 24	Using pedestal? For lifters that were already run, they will be pumped up so as long as the pushrod length is right your rockers will go right on. For new lifters, it isn't required to soak them in oil first. You just have to make sure that when you bolt down your rockers the lifter preload is right (pushrod length).

12-19-2001, 11:40 AM	#6
5cu11y Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 24	Yea PKWUD the coffee can is the way. I think the reason the soak isn't necessary though is because of the land behind the oiler in the lifter. I guess this way they will prime to depth without having to bleed down first without breaking. The reason you can't push them down is because they are primed. Thats why if you leave the old lifters in (ouch) the new rockers will only bolt down. Grab some new lifters and toss em in. If you soak/prime them, be sure and check your geometry since you wont be able to measure lifter preload. If you dont soak them, bolt down the rockers to spec while you dial indicator is on the lifter seat. Make sure preload is cool and your set. The coffee can works sweet though. FYI, check the rocker pedestals for cracks. 10 bucks for two cylinders is worth it.

12-19-2001, 03:25 PM	#8
5cu11y Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 24	Sorry Matt- If you leave the old lifters and pushrods, you just bolt down the new rockers. Check the geometry. You won't be able to do anything about the lifter height. Shouldn't have to. New hydraulic lifters: If you take a new lifter out of the box you'll see that you can push down the pushrod seat about .150" or so. It will be pushed back up by a spring. The hole in the side is where oil from the block comes in. There is a ball check type of valve in there that will let oil in to keep that seat from moving up and down (hydraulic). This is what happens when the seat comes back up. If there is any play in the lifter pushrod rocker valve line, it will be taken up to an extent by this. Once the lifter fills, or primes to a height resulting in zero lash, it stays. A common way of installing new lifters was to bleed them of any air (coffee can trick that PKRWUD said) and intall them. Then they will be hard like the ones in your engine now. However, if you do this then you can't measure preload height (distance the pushrod seat travels when you tighten the rocker). But you don't have to shim alot of cars now either. This is because newer hyd. lifters adjust to a height that is zero lash and stay. Old hydraulic lifters could be over primed (too tall), new ones cannot (anti-pump-up). Or so they say. I can atest to running a high pressure oil pump that didn't over prime comp hyd. lifters. You don't do anything with old lifters. You could pull them, apply assembly lube, and replace them exactly I guess. I'd leave em. Confused? I think I had too many beers at our Christmas lunch.

12-19-2001, 03:29 PM	#9
matt cook Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 449	thanks scully - that makes since...I may do the assembly lube thing, but just because I have the time and am anal retentive... thanks __________________ 1982 Mustang GT