valve clearence?

srv1 · 07-20-2002, 09:48 AM

ok, here is the deal. i blew a head gasket on my Stang. since i dont have much money, i want to rework the E7's. my plans are port and polishing, 3 angle valve job, and bigger valves and milled .010". now what valve size would be good? i will be running the stock cam with adjustable 1.7's. if i dont go with the bigger valves, will i have piston to valve clearence problems? if i do go with the bigger valves will i have clearence issues there also? how do you "clay" the pistons?
oh yeah, just to let you know, i know somebody who will do the machine work for cheap.

Stroked408 · 07-20-2002, 02:19 PM

The valve size I would go with in stock heads is 1.90/1.60 since you are running the stock cam with 1.7 it will raise your valves to about 470 mid .480 I am no math experts but you will be alright with 1.7's stock pistons,and 1.90/1.60 valves.

PKRWUD · 07-20-2002, 04:45 PM

James-
"Claying" the pistons means to get regular modelling clay from your local arts and crafts store, and laying a thin layer over the top of a piston. Then, install a head gasket and torque down the head. Rotate the crank through 4 revolutions, and pull the head. With a mike, measure the thickness of the clay at the thinnest point. To be safe, you want at least .100" thickness. This will tell you if your mods will work successfully without becoming a member of the Bent Valve Club.

Take care,
-Chris

srv1 · 07-21-2002, 10:06 AM

STROKED, even with the heads milled ".010"?

Chris, you mean i have to waste a head gasket or can i reuse my old when to check for clearence? i understand what you said, but how do you measure the clay itself? do you take it off the piston?

Stroked408 · 07-21-2002, 12:23 PM

you will be okay,but like I am sure anyone who races and builds engines always check piston to valve clearance,no matter what anyone tells you,but unless you have had the block decked or you are bringing the piston out of the hole a tad you will be okay,especially with a stock cam you should be okay.

Valve lift goes back and forth so much it can makes one wonder what he should do,simple always check piston to valve clearance.

You hear some people say you can a 528 lift cam with stock valves and stock everything I would not take that chance ever,but they say it can be done the "they" are some engine builders.

Always check it,bottom line.

ultraflo · 07-21-2002, 03:24 PM

You're not supposed to reuse a head gasket once it's been torqued down... you can get the compressed thickness of the gasket from the manufacturer and factor that into your equation if you like... I think PKRWUD is just trying to make it easy for you, which is a good thing

After you pull the head (once you've done the four revolutions) you should notice an indentation in the clay (put a thin film of oil over the top of the clay so the valve doesn't stick to it)... cut away half of the clay so you can see where the valve indented the clay relative to where the top of the piston is... use a depth guage (or the depth end of a slider type micrometer) to see what your clearance is... hope this makes sense

With stock ported heads, stock valves, and a .544 lift cam w/ 1.7 rockers I had over .100" clearance, not sure what is was exactly (1998) ...but you should get the idea(you're gonna be fine with the stock cam IMHO). Checking the P/V clearance is always a good idea in any case for peace of mind

edit: btw, I modified a stock lifter to make it solid for doing p/v clearance checks, degreeing, and checking for proper pushrod length and rocker arm geometry...

srv1 · 07-21-2002, 05:53 PM

ULTRAFLO, i know what you mean! BTW, i was talking about reusing the old head gasket to check the clearence, not for the fianal assembly.

oh and another thing. can anyone help me find these "beehive" valve springs? i want to put them on when i do my valves. i wonder how much more horse i will get with my new setup?

88workcar · 07-22-2002, 05:35 AM

I put 1.94 / 1.60s in my stock heads. E cam, B cam, no problems. They were also milled .030. Ported, bowl hogged, chambers polished, valves unshrouded. Killer heads, stock look. Good luck.

srv1 · 07-22-2002, 07:59 PM

Work car. can you give me some details? tell me your combos. i cant access your site. i am interested in anyone who makes E7's kick asz!

Old Guy with 87 GT · 07-22-2002, 08:36 PM

james ....i wrote a reply to your pm ...but ,your box is full .....i don't have time to rewrite everthing ...just emty your mail box and i'll send the original reply agian tomorrow moring

88workcar · 07-22-2002, 08:56 PM

What details?

srv1 · 07-23-2002, 05:43 PM

Workcar. i mean how much hogging did you do to your heads and did you unshroud the intake valve, how much and how so.

88workcar · 07-23-2002, 08:08 PM

When the machinist cut the valve seats for the bigger valves, he also cut the bowl strait down the same size as the last angle of the valve seat. I went back in and blended that cut to the previous porting. The intakes, on the outside are as big as the good fel pro gasket that you get at A.Z. Then blended two inches back. The exhast is just big. I even cut the valve support out of both sides. And I milled them .030. I will run these heads again soon. They will go 12.50s + and 108+

Dog5ohfun · 07-23-2002, 09:19 PM

A good place to get stock heads is Power Heads out of California. Their ad is in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords in the back of the magazine. I bought mine for $650 without shipping. They require an exchange but they pay for that. They are ported and polished. 190/160 valves, they work pretty good on my 306. But for the money I think they are a great deal. I have got 1.7 rockers and the E-cam and the valve never touched the Playdough. .529 total lift. Heads are milled .015 from power heads.

jrgoffin · 07-23-2002, 09:46 PM

I've got 1.84/1.54 valves with heads that are milled 0.020 and use KB116 pistons with a 2.6cc dome. With all that and a Crane 2031 cam (.513/.529), I had no problems at all. Rather than use the clay, I used a set of light springs in place of the Crane springs and was able to push on the retainer to get an idea as to the clearance. Can't recall the numbers, but the valves aren't even close!

srv1 · 07-23-2002, 11:33 PM

with the setup i have in mind, will i benefit with a cam or should i stick to the stock cam? i was told the stock cam can make up 350 horse. i would like to put a cam in it, but not sure which one would be the best.

Old Guy with 87 GT · 07-24-2002, 04:42 AM

srv ....i finally got time to reply ......

i didn't port my heads out real wildly ......i'm using the stock cam so all i really wanted to do was improve the balance between the intake and exuast ........

on the ex side .....i ground off the thermactor bumps and smothed out the little ridge on the bottom of the port ,right above the valve (..if you stick your finger in the port you'll feel what i'm talking about) then i polished up the rest of the port

on the int side .......all i really did was a mild polish .....smoothed out casting bumps

as for springs i used a crane kit ...part # 44308-1......it was complete kit with retainers and keepers designed to work on stock heads .....no machining needed ......

all in all ,i'm far from an expert ......i think if i woulda done a little more porting and put a cam in it i would get alot more out of it .......the mild stuff i did ,did knock like 4-5 tenths of my times thuogh (1.7s ,crane springs ,milling 020 ,fresh valve job (standard grind)and porting)

srv1 · 07-24-2002, 10:49 PM

well i am in a dilemma. i dont know what exactly to do?!

PKRWUD · 07-24-2002, 11:33 PM

I know where there's a nice '74 Olds Omega for sale.

Take care,
~Chris

RdRunnr · 07-24-2002, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by srv1
well i am in a dilemma. i dont know what exactly to do?!

Put it all together and see if it clears. If not, do what I did....break out the dremel and cut a relief into the pistons

You saw how good my car run with the home made pistons...lol.

07-20-2002, 09:48 AM	#1
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	valve clearence? ok, here is the deal. i blew a head gasket on my Stang. since i dont have much money, i want to rework the E7's. my plans are port and polishing, 3 angle valve job, and bigger valves and milled .010". now what valve size would be good? i will be running the stock cam with adjustable 1.7's. if i dont go with the bigger valves, will i have piston to valve clearence problems? if i do go with the bigger valves will i have clearence issues there also? how do you "clay" the pistons? oh yeah, just to let you know, i know somebody who will do the machine work for cheap. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-20-2002, 02:19 PM	#2
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	1.7's and Bigger valves OK The valve size I would go with in stock heads is 1.90/1.60 since you are running the stock cam with 1.7 it will raise your valves to about 470 mid .480 I am no math experts but you will be alright with 1.7's stock pistons,and 1.90/1.60 valves. __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

07-20-2002, 04:45 PM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	James- "Claying" the pistons means to get regular modelling clay from your local arts and crafts store, and laying a thin layer over the top of a piston. Then, install a head gasket and torque down the head. Rotate the crank through 4 revolutions, and pull the head. With a mike, measure the thickness of the clay at the thinnest point. To be safe, you want at least .100" thickness. This will tell you if your mods will work successfully without becoming a member of the Bent Valve Club. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-21-2002, 10:06 AM	#4
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	STROKED, even with the heads milled ".010"? Chris, you mean i have to waste a head gasket or can i reuse my old when to check for clearence? i understand what you said, but how do you measure the clay itself? do you take it off the piston? __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-21-2002, 12:23 PM	#5
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	It will work but check you will be okay,but like I am sure anyone who races and builds engines always check piston to valve clearance,no matter what anyone tells you,but unless you have had the block decked or you are bringing the piston out of the hole a tad you will be okay,especially with a stock cam you should be okay. Valve lift goes back and forth so much it can makes one wonder what he should do,simple always check piston to valve clearance. You hear some people say you can a 528 lift cam with stock valves and stock everything I would not take that chance ever,but they say it can be done the "they" are some engine builders. Always check it,bottom line. __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

07-21-2002, 03:24 PM	#6
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	You're not supposed to reuse a head gasket once it's been torqued down... you can get the compressed thickness of the gasket from the manufacturer and factor that into your equation if you like... I think PKRWUD is just trying to make it easy for you, which is a good thing After you pull the head (once you've done the four revolutions) you should notice an indentation in the clay (put a thin film of oil over the top of the clay so the valve doesn't stick to it)... cut away half of the clay so you can see where the valve indented the clay relative to where the top of the piston is... use a depth guage (or the depth end of a slider type micrometer) to see what your clearance is... hope this makes sense With stock ported heads, stock valves, and a .544 lift cam w/ 1.7 rockers I had over .100" clearance, not sure what is was exactly (1998) ...but you should get the idea(you're gonna be fine with the stock cam IMHO). Checking the P/V clearance is always a good idea in any case for peace of mind edit: btw, I modified a stock lifter to make it solid for doing p/v clearance checks, degreeing, and checking for proper pushrod length and rocker arm geometry... __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

07-21-2002, 05:53 PM	#7
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	ULTRAFLO, i know what you mean! BTW, i was talking about reusing the old head gasket to check the clearence, not for the fianal assembly. oh and another thing. can anyone help me find these "beehive" valve springs? i want to put them on when i do my valves. i wonder how much more horse i will get with my new setup? __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-22-2002, 05:35 AM	#8
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	I put 1.94 / 1.60s in my stock heads. E cam, B cam, no problems. They were also milled .030. Ported, bowl hogged, chambers polished, valves unshrouded. Killer heads, stock look. Good luck. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

07-22-2002, 07:59 PM	#9
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	E7's Work car. can you give me some details? tell me your combos. i cant access your site. i am interested in anyone who makes E7's kick asz! __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-22-2002, 08:36 PM	#10
Old Guy with 87 GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 379	empty your ,mailbox james ....i wrote a reply to your pm ...but ,your box is full .....i don't have time to rewrite everthing ...just emty your mail box and i'll send the original reply agian tomorrow moring __________________ the "not so old",old guy 87 Mustang GT T-top >hanlon t-5, pro 5.0, centerforce clutch ,adj. cable/quatrant ,3.27s ,full 2 1/2 ex(off road H) adj. reg. ,e-cam ,70mm TB, cobra intake ,1.7rr ,ported/milled e7ets w/crane springs ,306 balaced/decked short block w/speed pro forged flat top pistons ...257rwhp/302rwt best et 13.7@102 (4/11 ) '80 Capri (future project,currently collecting parts for 351 moter)

07-22-2002, 08:56 PM	#11
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	What details? __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

07-23-2002, 05:43 PM	#12
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	Workcar. i mean how much hogging did you do to your heads and did you unshroud the intake valve, how much and how so. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-23-2002, 08:08 PM	#13
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	When the machinist cut the valve seats for the bigger valves, he also cut the bowl strait down the same size as the last angle of the valve seat. I went back in and blended that cut to the previous porting. The intakes, on the outside are as big as the good fel pro gasket that you get at A.Z. Then blended two inches back. The exhast is just big. I even cut the valve support out of both sides. And I milled them .030. I will run these heads again soon. They will go 12.50s + and 108+ __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

07-23-2002, 09:19 PM	#14
Dog5ohfun Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arlington, Washington Posts: 92	A good place to get stock heads is Power Heads out of California. Their ad is in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords in the back of the magazine. I bought mine for $650 without shipping. They require an exchange but they pay for that. They are ported and polished. 190/160 valves, they work pretty good on my 306. But for the money I think they are a great deal. I have got 1.7 rockers and the E-cam and the valve never touched the Playdough. .529 total lift. Heads are milled .015 from power heads. __________________ Black 1990 LX DSS Racing Super Pro Bullit 331, AFR 185, Anderson B31 Cam, 1.6 DSS rockers, Cobra Intake w/ 2 phenolic spacer, Aluminum DS, 3.73 gears, Tremec 3550, Lakewood SFI Bellhousing, MSD Digital 6+, Spintech Side Exhaust,

07-23-2002, 09:46 PM	#15
jrgoffin Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Midwest Posts: 79	I've got 1.84/1.54 valves with heads that are milled 0.020 and use KB116 pistons with a 2.6cc dome. With all that and a Crane 2031 cam (.513/.529), I had no problems at all. Rather than use the clay, I used a set of light springs in place of the Crane springs and was able to push on the retainer to get an idea as to the clearance. Can't recall the numbers, but the valves aren't even close! __________________ '90 LX Too many mods... Rear-Disc tech

07-23-2002, 11:33 PM	#16
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	with the setup i have in mind, will i benefit with a cam or should i stick to the stock cam? i was told the stock cam can make up 350 horse. i would like to put a cam in it, but not sure which one would be the best. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-24-2002, 04:42 AM	#17
Old Guy with 87 GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 379	srv ....i finally got time to reply ...... i didn't port my heads out real wildly ......i'm using the stock cam so all i really wanted to do was improve the balance between the intake and exuast ........ on the ex side .....i ground off the thermactor bumps and smothed out the little ridge on the bottom of the port ,right above the valve (..if you stick your finger in the port you'll feel what i'm talking about) then i polished up the rest of the port on the int side .......all i really did was a mild polish .....smoothed out casting bumps as for springs i used a crane kit ...part # 44308-1......it was complete kit with retainers and keepers designed to work on stock heads .....no machining needed ...... all in all ,i'm far from an expert ......i think if i woulda done a little more porting and put a cam in it i would get alot more out of it .......the mild stuff i did ,did knock like 4-5 tenths of my times thuogh (1.7s ,crane springs ,milling 020 ,fresh valve job (standard grind)and porting) __________________ the "not so old",old guy 87 Mustang GT T-top >hanlon t-5, pro 5.0, centerforce clutch ,adj. cable/quatrant ,3.27s ,full 2 1/2 ex(off road H) adj. reg. ,e-cam ,70mm TB, cobra intake ,1.7rr ,ported/milled e7ets w/crane springs ,306 balaced/decked short block w/speed pro forged flat top pistons ...257rwhp/302rwt best et 13.7@102 (4/11 ) '80 Capri (future project,currently collecting parts for 351 moter)

07-24-2002, 10:49 PM	#18
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	well i am in a dilemma. i dont know what exactly to do?! __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-24-2002, 11:33 PM	#19
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I know where there's a nice '74 Olds Omega for sale. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

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