TFS guides, lost power, and dyno numbers

exgmguy · 05-08-2001, 05:31 PM

My motor was starting to foul a couple plugs with oil so I tore the heads down.

My Trick Flows have the old cast iron guides. 4 of them were so wasted the valve stems would wiggle about a 1/4 inch!!!!

This coupled with weak valvesprings could be responsible for my relatively low power numbers.

I made 269.1 RWHP @ 5000 rpm
I made 304.4 Ft-lbs @ 4400 rpm

These are from a Mustang Dyno. A Dynojet might show 290hp/320ft-lb
My combo goes like this:

302
ported TFS heads (bowl and port to 1262)
GT-40 w/ported lower (1262 Fel-pro as well)
E-303 w/1.72's
24 lb injectors
C&L 73
65 mm t.b.
equal length shorties, Flows, dumps
pulleys
K&N panel

The Head shop told me that they re-guide TONS of heads that have the cast iron guides, and that the worn guides along with weak valve springs were most likely costing me a lot of power.

Just a heads up to you TFS guys that have the earlier heads like I do.

------------------
1988 Mustang GT
12.0 @ 122
1992 BadAzz Wrangler
1993 Explorer

Mach 1 · 05-09-2001, 02:30 AM

Those power numbers are respectable for your combination and pretty standard with your mods. What were you expecting?

Most people think they are making more power than they really are.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

05-09-2001, 08:23 AM

269hp respectable. Not for those mods. should be from 290-320hp with ported heads and intake, cam etc.
Let us know what your new numbers are exgm hopefully the side of 300+

BTW I just pol and ported my upper intake, put on pulleys, ram air and AFR and fixed a vaccum leak on the intake. Any guesses on 1/4 times and miles. Best to date, pre those mods is a pathetic 13.4 @107.45(no traction).

05-09-2001, 08:28 AM

opps forgot sig.

------------------
306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake.
77mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters
3.73 gears and more.

Mach 1 · 05-09-2001, 09:16 AM

not at the rear wheels. maybe at the flywheel

SaleenGTS · 05-09-2001, 09:30 AM

Here are my old numbers of of another car...

My old 89 Saleen had TFS Heads with a clean up and bowl work, gasket matched(flowed around 275/200), TFS Track Heat Intake matched to my Heads, 2432 Crane Cam, and all the other goodies...made 324 rwhp, and 339 rwhp..

My car now BEFORE the blower made 286 rwhp and 325 rwtq with all box stock parts, a E cam istead of the TFS #2 cam, and Mac short headers instead of the Long Tubes, probably around 300-305 now w/o blower.

I think wth your new quides and a good clean up, you will be around 330-335 rwhp...and then that S-Trim, eh?

------------------
Dustin
89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp UNTUNED(TFS Intake, spacer,Heads and #2 cam, BD-11A 9#(only boosting 6???WTF),1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,FMS 70mm MAF,MSD 6BTM,FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes and H-Pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55 lots more...

12.564@118.49 on street tires is my best so far. Still untuned

[This message has been edited by SaleenGTS (edited 05-09-2001).]

exgmguy · 05-09-2001, 04:15 PM

I am hoping for 290-300 rwhp on the Mustang dyno. (310-320 Dynojet) I would imagine my ported pieces would be good for a solid 10 RWHP over box stock stuff.

2 things that are wierd is that my previous peak power was at only 5000 rpm. It fell off really sharp after that. And my peak torque was way up at 4400 rpm. Only 600 rpm below my horsepower peak? That kinda tells me that something funny was happening on the top end.

Another thing about the guides. I had a couple rockers that would not stop ticking no matter how I adjusted my valves. After seeing the wasted guides, it makes sense.

Oh yeah, after dynoing the last time at Detroit Speedworks it was smoking blue above 4000 or so rpm, and after I shut it off, OIL DRIPPED FROM MY TURNDOWNS!!!

NICE!!!!

05-09-2001, 04:47 PM

1/4" of play? Wow, that's alot! Make sure that the shop does a thorough job on the heads, ie clean up the seats & valves, etc.

I made 270 rwhp on a dynojet with my B303, ported stock heads & ported cobra intake. You should have no probs attaining your goal.

------------------
91 coupe
3.73's,long tubes,2 1/2" exh,ported stock t-body,ProM-77mm
cobra intake,edelbrock heads,B303,1.72 rr's
36lb inj's,tremec, & a Paxton NOVI 2000!!!
11.020 @128.95 on BFG Drag Radials (275/60/15)

Saltmaker · 05-09-2001, 09:40 PM

You really got lucky! I had the same guides and dropped a valve, which broke a piston and put a whole in the block the size of my fist!! This has cost me about 3500. I just put in a pro bullet 306 and had the heads fixed with all new springs, guides, and valves! Hope this works? I also noticed with just the one valve guide going bad (it started ticking) I lost 3 tenths before it blew? So If you had more then one real bad I think it could have an effect on your ratings! Good luck!

Saltmaker · 05-09-2001, 09:41 PM

Forgot sig.

------------------
1994 Mustang D.S.S. pro bullet 306, TFS heads, cobra Intake, 24lb inj, E-303 cam, 70mm throttle body, 75mm maf, 93 computer conversion, 3:73 rear, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, Eibach drag springs, Megabite jr's, Long tube headers, off road exhaust, 2 chamber flow masters...

05-08-2001, 05:31 PM	#1
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	TFS guides, lost power, and dyno numbers My motor was starting to foul a couple plugs with oil so I tore the heads down. My Trick Flows have the old cast iron guides. 4 of them were so wasted the valve stems would wiggle about a 1/4 inch!!!! This coupled with weak valvesprings could be responsible for my relatively low power numbers. I made 269.1 RWHP @ 5000 rpm I made 304.4 Ft-lbs @ 4400 rpm These are from a Mustang Dyno. A Dynojet might show 290hp/320ft-lb My combo goes like this: 302 ported TFS heads (bowl and port to 1262) GT-40 w/ported lower (1262 Fel-pro as well) E-303 w/1.72's 24 lb injectors C&L 73 65 mm t.b. equal length shorties, Flows, dumps pulleys K&N panel The Head shop told me that they re-guide TONS of heads that have the cast iron guides, and that the worn guides along with weak valve springs were most likely costing me a lot of power. Just a heads up to you TFS guys that have the earlier heads like I do. ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT 12.0 @ 122 1992 BadAzz Wrangler 1993 Explorer

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05-09-2001, 02:30 AM	#2
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Those power numbers are respectable for your combination and pretty standard with your mods. What were you expecting? Most people think they are making more power than they really are. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

05-09-2001, 08:23 AM	#3
mmike Guest Posts: n/a	269hp respectable. Not for those mods. should be from 290-320hp with ported heads and intake, cam etc. Let us know what your new numbers are exgm hopefully the side of 300+ BTW I just pol and ported my upper intake, put on pulleys, ram air and AFR and fixed a vaccum leak on the intake. Any guesses on 1/4 times and miles. Best to date, pre those mods is a pathetic 13.4 @107.45(no traction).

05-09-2001, 08:28 AM	#4
mmike Guest Posts: n/a	opps forgot sig. ------------------ 306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake. 77mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters 3.73 gears and more.

05-09-2001, 09:16 AM	#5
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	not at the rear wheels. maybe at the flywheel

05-09-2001, 09:30 AM	#6
SaleenGTS RICE taste like Chicken Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 687	Here are my old numbers of of another car... My old 89 Saleen had TFS Heads with a clean up and bowl work, gasket matched(flowed around 275/200), TFS Track Heat Intake matched to my Heads, 2432 Crane Cam, and all the other goodies...made 324 rwhp, and 339 rwhp.. My car now BEFORE the blower made 286 rwhp and 325 rwtq with all box stock parts, a E cam istead of the TFS #2 cam, and Mac short headers instead of the Long Tubes, probably around 300-305 now w/o blower. I think wth your new quides and a good clean up, you will be around 330-335 rwhp...and then that S-Trim, eh? ------------------ Dustin 89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp UNTUNED(TFS Intake, spacer,Heads and #2 cam, BD-11A 9#(only boosting 6???WTF),1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,FMS 70mm MAF,MSD 6BTM,FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes and H-Pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55 lots more... 12.564@118.49 on street tires is my best so far. Still untuned [This message has been edited by SaleenGTS (edited 05-09-2001).]

05-09-2001, 04:15 PM	#7
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	I am hoping for 290-300 rwhp on the Mustang dyno. (310-320 Dynojet) I would imagine my ported pieces would be good for a solid 10 RWHP over box stock stuff. 2 things that are wierd is that my previous peak power was at only 5000 rpm. It fell off really sharp after that. And my peak torque was way up at 4400 rpm. Only 600 rpm below my horsepower peak? That kinda tells me that something funny was happening on the top end. Another thing about the guides. I had a couple rockers that would not stop ticking no matter how I adjusted my valves. After seeing the wasted guides, it makes sense. Oh yeah, after dynoing the last time at Detroit Speedworks it was smoking blue above 4000 or so rpm, and after I shut it off, OIL DRIPPED FROM MY TURNDOWNS!!! NICE!!!!

05-09-2001, 04:47 PM	#8
SisuStang Guest Posts: n/a	1/4" of play? Wow, that's alot! Make sure that the shop does a thorough job on the heads, ie clean up the seats & valves, etc. I made 270 rwhp on a dynojet with my B303, ported stock heads & ported cobra intake. You should have no probs attaining your goal. ------------------ 91 coupe 3.73's,long tubes,2 1/2" exh,ported stock t-body,ProM-77mm cobra intake,edelbrock heads,B303,1.72 rr's 36lb inj's,tremec, & a Paxton NOVI 2000!!! 11.020 @128.95 on BFG Drag Radials (275/60/15)

05-09-2001, 09:40 PM	#9
Saltmaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 19	You really got lucky! I had the same guides and dropped a valve, which broke a piston and put a whole in the block the size of my fist!! This has cost me about 3500. I just put in a pro bullet 306 and had the heads fixed with all new springs, guides, and valves! Hope this works? I also noticed with just the one valve guide going bad (it started ticking) I lost 3 tenths before it blew? So If you had more then one real bad I think it could have an effect on your ratings! Good luck!

05-09-2001, 09:41 PM	#10
Saltmaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 19	Forgot sig. ------------------ 1994 Mustang D.S.S. pro bullet 306, TFS heads, cobra Intake, 24lb inj, E-303 cam, 70mm throttle body, 75mm maf, 93 computer conversion, 3:73 rear, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, Eibach drag springs, Megabite jr's, Long tube headers, off road exhaust, 2 chamber flow masters...