still running a factory 302? WHY? Go 331

[red82gt]

I still don't see why you'd put all that $$ into heavy duty internals when the stock internals can handle more power than the block can take? Why not get .030" over flat top pistons, regrind your own crank and recondition your rods, a good set of fasteners, mill the deck and then you've got a motor that's just as strong (the block is the limiting factor) and you have saved $1500. Two weeks ago, there was just such a motor in a 95GT with a vic jr. intake and heads and a 200 shot running a 9.85@135mph at Mission Raceway park here in BC!
If I was to dump $2300 in internals into a block it would at least be a 351W and probably a sportsman block.

byrneck, we're just a little testy that this guy comes on and trashes the motor that powers most of our cars and from our standpoint it sounds like were relics for running the "garbage can" 5.0L in our cars, I think he has a lot to learn about the real potential of this motor.

[RED92LX50]

from Unit..."Guess I'll take reliable, long life, good performance, and ease of modding over a super high output dung pile."

EXACTLY

Although, I would love to see Chevy borrow from Ford's slogan...maybe for the 2002 Camaro: "Have you driven a super high output dung pile lately?".

[ballistic_331LX]

Well, sounds like alot of you guys on here got a lil butt hurt......I would apoligize...but no, I DO NOT THINK SO!!! in NHRA, I am a huge fan of Larry Dixon...always have and always will...(chevy for those that don't know) but on the street and what I drive will be a stang.
Now back to the stock motor thing....I never said a stock motor wouldn't last whatever miles...I seen a stock 302 go 200,000 miles easily......i am just saying theres competition out there and the factory can only go so far but you gotta keep up....the 302 was a lil restrictive from the factory and it would not take much to take in consideration that there are a few things that could have been put on a HO motor to make it run a lil and/or alot quicker ET, and I am sure you can use your brains on that.......the best thing i liked was (although they were tiny) the stock headers....nobody else on a production car in the 80's and early 90's had it.......anyways i am not gonna sit here and BS all day I know whats up and I know what makes smogged (legit smog) power regardless of what combos I go with....I just will not run a factory 302 in a fox body car....the time slips will show tomorow @ a track in southern Cal!!!!!!

P.S. please don't bag on me too hard i might have to go to the store and buy a box of tissue LOL

[Ron1]

I don't think there is a right or wrong here. I think this all boils down to what it is you are planning to do. Will this be a street car only, will a be a combination street strip, or an all out strip only car. How much power can the drivetrain handle before you need to dig in your wallet and start upgrading your trans and rear end. Make your decision based on those basics. Me, I went 347. Strip only car, high compression, high octane fuels. Not too worried about long term driveability, or getting a 100K miles on it.
The old 306 had reached it's limits, but it ran great for 3 years. Had the internals cryo frozen and used a main girdle, and everything we could think of to make it hold up. It max'd out at about 600 HP
The new 347 is built to go way beyond that point. Always over design. R302, Ross domes with thermal barrier coating, "H" beams and all the right hardware.
So identify what you want it to do, talk to the guys with proven track records and how they got there, then design it and the rest of the car for the application.

Ron

[Stroked408]

You can run this and you can that,if your combo is not matched up you are going to run like crap,bottom line,you can have a 500hp motor but if you do not have a 500hp suspension guess what you still have a 13 sec car with a helluva engine in it,that is why NMRA Pure Street cars run so well,they have a whole package from front to rear,most NMRA Pure Street cars weigh 3200 pounds,so they are not light,but they do have a little extra in the electronic department where they are turning 7500rpm through the lights,with 310 cubic inches,AFR 165 heads,and max .500 lift cams,there is a whole package there not just a kick butt engine under hood,but since most NMRA Pure Street cars would not drive from here to the local 7-11 without loading up like a junkie they are to a degree a good comparison point,to make a long story short there is no replacement for displacement,except for a good matched combo

[ballistic_331LX]

hey whats up to all, again.....yeah the suspension thing is a huge factor but since i only have a few thousand on the motor i will still be tweakin and tuning this motor for the next year....trying different cams, better MAF sensors and so on......but yes chassis and suspension is HUGE......take care

[Stroked408]

Ballistic 331,
what a lot of these "Internet" Billy Gliddens have to realize is we have to drive these cars everyday,I am sure no one out there that is running really hard has their Mustang as their sole means of transportation,let me point this out and i will be done with this debate yes a 302-306 can be built to run the number no doubt but you are going to have to bump the compression and rpm's up along with that,stroked 302 blocks 320-359 cubic inches nothing wrong with a little rod in there longer than normal,because that extra stroke means torque,reason for the 351W 1/2 inch longer stroke than a 302,so those that are running turd-bos and want to sit on the line spooling up knock yourself out,while I am going down the track banging gears and winning races

[Ron1]

Not going to disagree with you. I started with my daily driver in the Sportman class running 15's, then 14's and finally dipped into the 12's. Unfortunately (for me and my wallet) I got hooked. Sold the daily driver, got the Ford Explorer and bought a track only car. Since then have moved from Pro to S/Pro and now running sub-10's still with a small block stroker.
I do envy those BBC guys who can run that 600 CI motor for 10 years and never open the hood, hell I have a 514 sitting in the garage in a 68 FB. Have been working on that car for 6 years now. But until its done...launch at 5800, shift at 7600 and out the back door at 8000 RPM...nothing like it.

[Stroked408]

Ron I admire what you do,any self respecting gearhead knows it is cheaper to build a Chevy then it is a Ford,only thing you have to do is read the 2 biggest propaganda mags out there Hot Rod and Car Craft you can use 1 finger to count the Ford small block buildups they do in there that are really worthwhile reading,it must have been tough to get rid of such a great car and start from scratch again but sometimes that is the best and easy way to start a project with a clean foundation 5800 launch that must be fun,tell me what does the sky look like on launch?

Originally posted by Unit 5302
So the heads are also garbage? So what if they don't ventilate mineshafts? The stock heads will get a Fox into the 12's if the rest of the car is setup for it.

Bro, the only people I've seen that want to even screw with those heads are the ones on a low budget and the ones that have to because of the class they are running. Those heads are the biggest downfall of the late model 5.0. You know those heads were designed for a 221 out of the 50s(I've stated it enough through the years). If Ford would have given us some decent heads in 1993 we wouldn't have had to add blowers and such to keep up.

I love the 302, I still think its the best engine I've ever owned. I beat on my stock 302 for over 10 yrs and it still kept coming back for more, even after the blower!! Good engine, no doubt about it!

I'm glad some others came on and said their piece because I thought I was going this one alone. You just can not compare a simple 306 rebuild to a 331 stroker engine in performance and longevity.

You would honestly rather have a shot-peened stock rod than a 4340 h-beam??

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by ballistic_331LX
P.S. please don't bag on me too hard i might have to go to the store and buy a box of tissue LOL

I know I would be crying if I had just spent 5 grand on a 331 and was looking at running 13's.

[Stroked408]

5 grand for a 331? Only people I see sell a 331 for 5k is Bennett,the man has said 5 times already he paid 2300 for an assembled shortblock,I would rather pay 2300 for a shortblock then 3-4k for a turd-bo and never get it right,whole lot easier to tune N/A then it is blowers and turd-bos,guy I know now probably wishes he had stayed N/A instead of going blower he still cannot find the right tune with the thing,I take N/A hp anyday over an excuse maker i.e power adder I hear it all the time with power adder guys the nitrous guys are always whining "o my bottle is not full" the blower guys"oh my belt is slipping,or I have the wrong pulley on" and the turbo guys"oh I can't get it to full boost,or it blows the tires off" all excuses you never hear a N/A guy say any of that if something is wrong he does not whine about it,but back to the case in point 2300 for a fully assembled shortblock is not a bad price at all

I understand what you are saying, Stroked408. A good NA combo is great and can be easier to tune. The thing I like about a power adder is that you can run more streetable power. I mean, a 11:1 NA engine running 12s and a 9:1 P/A engine running the exact same #s and the P/A engine will get better gas mileage and be more streetable.

[Stroked408]

Rick,
I may have come off as saying this and that about power adders,I did not mean it that way,but you get some of these really young guys that think a power adder is the end all end when we both know it is not unless you are running NMRA/FFW Pro,Street/SS Outlaw,Renegade,or Real Street,more streetable yes,but I know and I am a die hard gearhead,I would not be able to stand the noise a blower makes all the time,and we know a turbo does not like street heat,if a person can put up with the noise of a blower I say go for it,get it tuned right,and have at it,just when you come to the track leave the excuses with the cashier as Mike Murillo says"this is where we find out who doesn't wears the panties" or something to that effect but no I respect power adder guys as long they respect N/A guys and you seem to respect N/A guys so you are definitely on the good list,like I said no offense to the real guys with power adders and know what they got

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by Stroked408
5 grand for a 331? Only people I see sell a 331 for 5k is Bennett,the man has said 5 times already he paid 2300 for an assembled shortblock,I would rather pay 2300 for a shortblock then 3-4k for a turd-bo and never get it right,whole lot easier to tune N/A then it is blowers and turd-bos,guy I know now probably wishes he had stayed N/A instead of going blower he still cannot find the right tune with the thing,I take N/A hp anyday over an excuse maker i.e power adder I hear it all the time with power adder guys the nitrous guys are always whining "o my bottle is not full" the blower guys"oh my belt is slipping,or I have the wrong pulley on" and the turbo guys"oh I can't get it to full boost,or it blows the tires off" all excuses you never hear a N/A guy say any of that if something is wrong he does not whine about it,but back to the case in point 2300 for a fully assembled shortblock is not a bad price at all

First go back and read, he said $2300 for the short block and a couple of grand for the rest. Thats $4300 give or take. I said 5 grand, ok I was off a little, but when I've seen stock ported heads and intake, stock cam with a turd-bo run mid 10's in the 1/4 for about the same price as he has in motor and he hoping for 13's, I don't have much sympathy. I hope it runs mid 11's and he surprises us all. I'll be one of the first to congratulate him when he posts his times.

As far as excuses, my favorite is "well if I had a blower too, it would have been different".

And my favorite saying is "it's not how you get there, it's who gets there first".

And what do the fastest 5.0 cars in the world run, that's right, Turbos and Superchargers. You don't see in NA guys competing do you.

And I agree, if I show up and don't have it tuned right, that is my fault. Want get any excuses from me. I don't see why a person would spent 4 or 5 grand on a blower and then not have it tuned properly, doesn't make any since to me at all.

We each have our own way of reaching our goals, wether it be NA, turd-bo (good one by the way, never heard that), or supercharger. I personally wanted something different for the street, and a turbo/mustang combination is fairly uncommon.

Have a good one.

[Stroked408]

you know you are exactly right except I would rather get there with NA hp and not have to worry about spooling up or hoping the staging lanes are packed so my turd-bo can cool off LOL,nothing I like better than trying to compare an apple(NAhp) to an orange(power adder hp) that is entirely 2 different ways of getting there,oh yeah you are right Turbos and Superchargers are the fastest right now,but all the NA classes have full fields not just a few guys that have the deep pockets and sponsorship showing up to race,let me see * Pro 5.0 cars show up half of them break during qualifying you are now down to the semi's before you run the first round,hmmmm 16 car Hot Street Field half break you still have 4 rounds of racing,Alex I will take Hot Street for a thousand,and I am having a great day

[91GTturbo]

I know of no one with the properly sized turbo for their application that has spool up problems. I see full boost by 3000 rpms, granted I'm not a pro 5.0 car running 30 lbs of boost. If I went a slapped a 100 mm turbo on a stock 302, yea I might have spool up problems, but with a little research and talking to the turbo manufactures, it's easy to find the right size turbo.

And I'll go ahead and tell you, the spool up crap, is a mith used by NA guys to justify not going blown because they can't tune a car.

And if the staging lanes are full like you said, all the better, it does give my car and any other car, including NA, time to cool off. I know of no one that sits in the staging lanes with their car running anyway.