My car all but died and won't wake back up!?! - Page 2

DRASTiK · 05-25-2002, 04:14 PM

Well, here's the results I came up with.

the pin 1 and pin 60 readouts were 11.88 KOEO and 12.11 key off.

test VPWR and GND - 11.72

MAF SIG and MAF RTN - no reading

MAF SIG and GND - no reading. Anything that involved the SIG (D) wire, got no reading whatsoever.

backprobe MAF - have no idea how to do that.

A quick lesson on DMM's probably wouldn't hurt anything either. I just bought my first one today. For ohms, I set the DMM to 20K, so if that's not the right setting, then call me an idiot and tell me the correct setting.

Mach 1 · 05-25-2002, 05:32 PM

You should have a reading when you do the second check, so I dont think you are using the meter correctly.

Make sure you switch it to "ohms" (which measures resistance) and didnt leave it on "volts DC" which you needed for the first check.

Most meters have AC volts, DC volts, continutiy, ohms, AC amps, and DC amp settings. When measuring amps, you switch the one lead to a different hole on the meter.

But thats more than you need to know.

To backprobe, get a piece of wire or a pin or something and pierce the insulation on the wire, so you can take a reading with the connector connected to the MAF meter. then touch the wire or pin with your meter lead.

DRASTiK · 05-25-2002, 05:47 PM

well, I knew I was looking for resistance (ohms), but it's not labeled on the MM. I made sure that when I touched the two pins together and it came out to 0.00, so I figured it was on the right setting.

I took the car for a drive and came back and checked the plugs again. What does this tell me?

PKRWUD · 05-25-2002, 08:09 PM

Plug looks like you have a very lean condition, but it's hard to say for sure. i know you're going in several directions at once, and I don't want to confuse you, but that code 15 is pretty important. You said you disconnected the battery and turned on the headlights for 30 minutes. That should have been fine. Do that one more time, but this time, just before you reattach the battery, touch the disconnected negative cable to the connected positive cable post on the battery (MAKE SURE THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE NEGATIVE BATTERY POST AND THE VEHICLE), and pull KOEO codes again. That will absolutely clear out any residual, measurable electrons from the system. If the code 15 returns, the ECM is damaged.

Take care,
-Chris

DRASTiK · 05-25-2002, 08:30 PM

PKRWUD,
I just came in to post some more info and read your post just now. I swapped EEC's with a friend and it made no change. After I reconnected mine, and started it and let it run for 10 minutes, I shut it off and rescanned KOEO. The continuous code of 15 was gone. It gave me an 11 in the continuous code area between the seperator beeps (is it supposed to do that?)

I started it back up and while it was running (barely) I unplugged the MAF and it ran much better. The sputtering was gone (of course I didn't drive it, but it revved much better.) I'm assuming that the MAF is bad?

Mach 1 · 05-25-2002, 09:14 PM

code 11 is the everything is ok code, if my memory serves my correctly.

So code 11 is a good thing.

If you unplugged your MAF meter and it ran better, that would seem to indicate a faulty meter, as logic would dictate it should run a lot WORSE with the meter disconnected.

But, it could be your ECM. Did you try swapping MAF meters with your buddy also?

DRASTiK · 05-25-2002, 10:23 PM

I knew 11 was the "okay" code, but I didn't know it was used as a continuous code.

I couldn't swap with my buddy because I have his EEC. It's been sitting in my garage for a month because his car is parked in a storage lot (he's overseas), and he yanked it for me to hold it so no one would steel the car.

I went to the store and bought a new MAF and it seems to have fixed it! I just took it for a ride and it's driving better now than it ever has. It doesn't pop at all when I let off the gas with it in gear. It used to pop some when slowing down and in gear. Hopefully it will stay this way. Thanks for your help guys.

Dave

joe4speed · 05-26-2002, 01:29 AM

Wow Drastik, your problem sounds exactly opposite of mine... I hope you get yours fixed soon... I know what a pain it is, but with all these people helping us, it's only a matter of time!

sleekgreen · 07-09-2002, 08:58 AM

My car was running like crap. In the mornings, it would pop back, spit and sputter and had absolutly no power. After it warmed up a little, it ran better but never at 100%. I thought it was my timing was off because of the way that the power would dip if I pressed the trottle and i had spark knock really bad. The timing turned out to be right. It was on 14. If i dropped it back to the stock 10 degrees, i was sure to get smoked by a kia....it was that bad! After reading this thread, I decided to buy a can of carb. cleaner and take the mass air off to clean it. The diodes looked a little dirty but not real bad. I cleaned it anyway and now I am restored to 100%. Not sure if this will help you any but i would give it a shot. It beats buying replacement parts when you dont really know what the malfunction is.

Thanks to all who posted messages in this thread!!!!

Mach 1 · 07-09-2002, 11:10 AM

interesting, I used carb cleaner on mine, and it ran like crap, cleaned it again with alcohol, and it ran better.

jimberg · 07-09-2002, 12:39 PM

I think the oil on K&N filters tends to get sucked into the intake path and coat the MAF sensing element. The Pro-M web site recommends using a pipe cleaner to clean the sensor.

I like Mach 1's suggestion. Use alcohol. Alcohol will displace the oil on the sensor so that it can be washed away and then dry quickly with no residue.

sleekgreen · 07-10-2002, 02:52 PM

I have a question.

What exactly does the Idle Air Controller do? I went to replace it and after I did, when I accelerated the rpm's would not drop back down for at least 5 seconds. I have been told that this would be caused by a bad TPS switch, but I replaced that before I replaced the Idle Air. When I removed the old Idle Air Controller, it had oil inside. Is that normal?

65efi · 07-10-2002, 03:33 PM

The Idle Speed Control solinoid allows air to bypass the throttle plate in order to maintain idle. It modulates this airflow in order to keep a nice stead idle. Disconnecting it shuts off this air supply, which is why the car should die or at least stunmble if you disconnect it while idling.

Checking the voltage throughout the TPS range would be a good idea. Also check the return springs to make sure somehting's not binding. alos, be certain to disconnect the battery for at least 10 minutes after replacing sensors to clear the Keep Alive Memory that the computer has stored info in. It could take several miles for the computer to figure out a new configuration.

05-25-2002, 04:14 PM	#21
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	Well, here's the results I came up with. the pin 1 and pin 60 readouts were 11.88 KOEO and 12.11 key off. test VPWR and GND - 11.72 MAF SIG and MAF RTN - no reading MAF SIG and GND - no reading. Anything that involved the SIG (D) wire, got no reading whatsoever. backprobe MAF - have no idea how to do that. A quick lesson on DMM's probably wouldn't hurt anything either. I just bought my first one today. For ohms, I set the DMM to 20K, so if that's not the right setting, then call me an idiot and tell me the correct setting. __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!! Last edited by DRASTiK; 05-25-2002 at 04:33 PM..

05-25-2002, 05:32 PM	#22
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	You should have a reading when you do the second check, so I dont think you are using the meter correctly. Make sure you switch it to "ohms" (which measures resistance) and didnt leave it on "volts DC" which you needed for the first check. Most meters have AC volts, DC volts, continutiy, ohms, AC amps, and DC amp settings. When measuring amps, you switch the one lead to a different hole on the meter. But thats more than you need to know. To backprobe, get a piece of wire or a pin or something and pierce the insulation on the wire, so you can take a reading with the connector connected to the MAF meter. then touch the wire or pin with your meter lead. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

05-25-2002, 08:09 PM	#24
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Plug looks like you have a very lean condition, but it's hard to say for sure. i know you're going in several directions at once, and I don't want to confuse you, but that code 15 is pretty important. You said you disconnected the battery and turned on the headlights for 30 minutes. That should have been fine. Do that one more time, but this time, just before you reattach the battery, touch the disconnected negative cable to the connected positive cable post on the battery (MAKE SURE THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE NEGATIVE BATTERY POST AND THE VEHICLE), and pull KOEO codes again. That will absolutely clear out any residual, measurable electrons from the system. If the code 15 returns, the ECM is damaged. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-25-2002, 08:30 PM	#25
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	PKRWUD, I just came in to post some more info and read your post just now. I swapped EEC's with a friend and it made no change. After I reconnected mine, and started it and let it run for 10 minutes, I shut it off and rescanned KOEO. The continuous code of 15 was gone. It gave me an 11 in the continuous code area between the seperator beeps (is it supposed to do that?) I started it back up and while it was running (barely) I unplugged the MAF and it ran much better. The sputtering was gone (of course I didn't drive it, but it revved much better.) I'm assuming that the MAF is bad? __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!!

05-25-2002, 09:14 PM	#26
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	code 11 is the everything is ok code, if my memory serves my correctly. So code 11 is a good thing. If you unplugged your MAF meter and it ran better, that would seem to indicate a faulty meter, as logic would dictate it should run a lot WORSE with the meter disconnected. But, it could be your ECM. Did you try swapping MAF meters with your buddy also? __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

05-25-2002, 10:23 PM	#27
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	I knew 11 was the "okay" code, but I didn't know it was used as a continuous code. I couldn't swap with my buddy because I have his EEC. It's been sitting in my garage for a month because his car is parked in a storage lot (he's overseas), and he yanked it for me to hold it so no one would steel the car. I went to the store and bought a new MAF and it seems to have fixed it! I just took it for a ride and it's driving better now than it ever has. It doesn't pop at all when I let off the gas with it in gear. It used to pop some when slowing down and in gear. Hopefully it will stay this way. Thanks for your help guys. Dave

05-26-2002, 01:29 AM	#28
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Wow Drastik, your problem sounds exactly opposite of mine... I hope you get yours fixed soon... I know what a pain it is, but with all these people helping us, it's only a matter of time! __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

07-09-2002, 08:58 AM	#29
sleekgreen Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SC Posts: 6	My car was running like crap. In the mornings, it would pop back, spit and sputter and had absolutly no power. After it warmed up a little, it ran better but never at 100%. I thought it was my timing was off because of the way that the power would dip if I pressed the trottle and i had spark knock really bad. The timing turned out to be right. It was on 14. If i dropped it back to the stock 10 degrees, i was sure to get smoked by a kia....it was that bad! After reading this thread, I decided to buy a can of carb. cleaner and take the mass air off to clean it. The diodes looked a little dirty but not real bad. I cleaned it anyway and now I am restored to 100%. Not sure if this will help you any but i would give it a shot. It beats buying replacement parts when you dont really know what the malfunction is. Thanks to all who posted messages in this thread!!!!

07-09-2002, 11:10 AM	#30
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	interesting, I used carb cleaner on mine, and it ran like crap, cleaned it again with alcohol, and it ran better. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-09-2002, 12:39 PM	#31
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I think the oil on K&N filters tends to get sucked into the intake path and coat the MAF sensing element. The Pro-M web site recommends using a pipe cleaner to clean the sensor. I like Mach 1's suggestion. Use alcohol. Alcohol will displace the oil on the sensor so that it can be washed away and then dry quickly with no residue. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-10-2002, 02:52 PM	#32
sleekgreen Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SC Posts: 6	I have a question. What exactly does the Idle Air Controller do? I went to replace it and after I did, when I accelerated the rpm's would not drop back down for at least 5 seconds. I have been told that this would be caused by a bad TPS switch, but I replaced that before I replaced the Idle Air. When I removed the old Idle Air Controller, it had oil inside. Is that normal?

07-10-2002, 03:33 PM	#33
65efi Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 37	The Idle Speed Control solinoid allows air to bypass the throttle plate in order to maintain idle. It modulates this airflow in order to keep a nice stead idle. Disconnecting it shuts off this air supply, which is why the car should die or at least stunmble if you disconnect it while idling. Checking the voltage throughout the TPS range would be a good idea. Also check the return springs to make sure somehting's not binding. alos, be certain to disconnect the battery for at least 10 minutes after replacing sensors to clear the Keep Alive Memory that the computer has stored info in. It could take several miles for the computer to figure out a new configuration.