Stud Girdle and Windage Tray?

Phantom5oh · 02-19-2003, 10:43 AM

I was wondering who makes the best Stud Girdle and Windage Tray for the 302?

I've been looking at the DSS Stuff, but I don't know anyone who uses their Girdle or Tray? Anyone have any experiance with them?

VeNuM · 02-19-2003, 10:54 AM

I'm putting a Probe Girdle on my built motor, it's very nice quality and isn't aluminum like the D.S.S. one. Probe also has 2 different ones, the Street Fighter and the Track Master. ~Brian

302 LX Eric · 02-19-2003, 11:54 AM

I'm using both the Main Support System and Oil Control system on my 331 from DSS. The MSS is made of T-6 6061 aluminum which is very strong, yet absorbs much of the engine harmonics which allows for a built 302 to withstand high horsepower applications. The cheaper steel versions do not have the same absorbing feature and are much cheaper (like $99 or so).

Both (MSS and oil control sys.) are very nice piece's from DSS, but will require some minor grinding in order for eveything to fit properly (regardless of what they tell you).

Hope this helps,
E

Phantom5oh · 02-19-2003, 01:40 PM

What needs to be ground down? DSS said it fit right on and that I didn't need to have anything machined. Do I nood to send it to a machine shop to have the caps ground or something? I was hoping that I could just install it while I have the engine out.

302 LX Eric · 02-19-2003, 01:56 PM

It's not like you have to grind off 2" or anything!

Seriously though, every application is different. Here's what mine consisted of:

- Stock 302 block
- 3.25" steel crank
- 5.315" 4340 H-Beam rods
- Canton 7 qt. pan
- Melling HV oil pump
- DSS Main Support System for 5.0 stroker
- Oil Control system (windage tray) by DSS.

Given this combo, my engine builder (see link below) still had minor clearance issues with the MSS and Oil Control System together. I remember now... it had to do with the rod bolts hitting part of the oil control system. He had to clearance a couple of the louvers in order for the beefy ARP bolts/H-beams to clear.

In your application (stock rods?) you may have no issues. I'm just trying to give you a little heads up from a guy that's been down this road before.

E

Phantom5oh · 02-19-2003, 04:13 PM

OK so it was the rod bolts that gave you clearence problems? I'm running a stock block, stock rods, ARP rod bolts and cap studs, a Canton 7 qt and either a FRPP or Melling high volume pump.

What I'm worried about is the bearing caps. Do you know if they needed to be clearenced or leveled at all? If I can install this system without having my caps milled I can do it at home. If not I need to bring it to the machine shop. At that point its turning $400 into 5 or $600 and I could have put that into something that will actually make power.

I was looking into a Girdle and tray because I am thinking about a supercharger for the summer.

302 LX Eric · 02-19-2003, 04:22 PM

My main bearing caps did not require and clearancing or leveling. Yours shouldn't either. It was the ARP bolts on the H-beam rods that didn't clear the 'louvres' on the oil control tray. Also, we had to 'work' with the oil pickup to get it to clear the girdle and the oil pump and girdle needing to be clearanced as well. Again, we're not talking anything major, just some minor clearancing.

E

drudis · 02-20-2003, 04:08 PM

I bought this Motorsport one off a friend, and just simply bolted it on while I had the motor out.

ultraflo · 02-20-2003, 07:06 PM

I ran a DSS/SVO MSS on my stock block 306, got it for sale if you're interested.

The instructions recommend that you align hone the main journals after you install the MSS and ARP studs... if you already use studs, I'm not sure this is necessary. However, I do know that when you change from main bolts to studs, it is highly recommended that you have the main journals checked for proper runout.

Other than that, when I installed mine I had to clearance the girdle to clear the 7/16" rod bolts on my C&A rods (3.00" stroke, 5.400" rods), had to modify the moroso oil pickup to conform to the shape of the girdle (a tool is included for re-profiling the oil pickup tube), and relocate/reweld the mounting tab that retains the p/u to one of the studs. I doubt you'll have any clearance issues with stock rods/bolts, but you will have to reshape the oil p/u tube.

I picked the aluminum support over the steel version for what was described by Eric, in that it absorbs engine harmonics, unlike the steel versions...

Phantom5oh · 02-21-2003, 08:42 AM

ultraflow, I sent you a PM

02-19-2003, 10:43 AM	#1
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Stud Girdle and Windage Tray? I was wondering who makes the best Stud Girdle and Windage Tray for the 302? I've been looking at the DSS Stuff, but I don't know anyone who uses their Girdle or Tray? Anyone have any experiance with them? __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

02-19-2003, 10:54 AM	#2
VeNuM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 464	I'm putting a Probe Girdle on my built motor, it's very nice quality and isn't aluminum like the D.S.S. one. Probe also has 2 different ones, the Street Fighter and the Track Master. ~Brian __________________ 1989 Black Mustang GT Hatchback, Underdrive Pulles, Electric Fan, Cold Air Intake, Headers, Offroad H-Pipe, Magnaflow catback, Steeda Tri-Ax, Fluidyne Aluminum Radiator, Timing at 14*, 3.73's Coming not so soon: 408w Ricer Hater's Club Member #59

02-19-2003, 11:54 AM	#3
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	I'm using both the Main Support System and Oil Control system on my 331 from DSS. The MSS is made of T-6 6061 aluminum which is very strong, yet absorbs much of the engine harmonics which allows for a built 302 to withstand high horsepower applications. The cheaper steel versions do not have the same absorbing feature and are much cheaper (like $99 or so). Both (MSS and oil control sys.) are very nice piece's from DSS, but will require some minor grinding in order for eveything to fit properly (regardless of what they tell you). Hope this helps, E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

02-19-2003, 01:40 PM	#4
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	What needs to be ground down? DSS said it fit right on and that I didn't need to have anything machined. Do I nood to send it to a machine shop to have the caps ground or something? I was hoping that I could just install it while I have the engine out. __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

02-19-2003, 01:56 PM	#5
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	It's not like you have to grind off 2" or anything! Seriously though, every application is different. Here's what mine consisted of: - Stock 302 block - 3.25" steel crank - 5.315" 4340 H-Beam rods - Canton 7 qt. pan - Melling HV oil pump - DSS Main Support System for 5.0 stroker - Oil Control system (windage tray) by DSS. Given this combo, my engine builder (see link below) still had minor clearance issues with the MSS and Oil Control System together. I remember now... it had to do with the rod bolts hitting part of the oil control system. He had to clearance a couple of the louvers in order for the beefy ARP bolts/H-beams to clear. In your application (stock rods?) you may have no issues. I'm just trying to give you a little heads up from a guy that's been down this road before. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

02-19-2003, 04:13 PM	#6
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	OK so it was the rod bolts that gave you clearence problems? I'm running a stock block, stock rods, ARP rod bolts and cap studs, a Canton 7 qt and either a FRPP or Melling high volume pump. What I'm worried about is the bearing caps. Do you know if they needed to be clearenced or leveled at all? If I can install this system without having my caps milled I can do it at home. If not I need to bring it to the machine shop. At that point its turning $400 into 5 or $600 and I could have put that into something that will actually make power. I was looking into a Girdle and tray because I am thinking about a supercharger for the summer. __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

02-19-2003, 04:22 PM	#7
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	My main bearing caps did not require and clearancing or leveling. Yours shouldn't either. It was the ARP bolts on the H-beam rods that didn't clear the 'louvres' on the oil control tray. Also, we had to 'work' with the oil pickup to get it to clear the girdle and the oil pump and girdle needing to be clearanced as well. Again, we're not talking anything major, just some minor clearancing. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

02-20-2003, 04:08 PM	#8
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	I bought this Motorsport one off a friend, and just simply bolted it on while I had the motor out. __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

02-20-2003, 07:06 PM	#9
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	I ran a DSS/SVO MSS on my stock block 306, got it for sale if you're interested. The instructions recommend that you align hone the main journals after you install the MSS and ARP studs... if you already use studs, I'm not sure this is necessary. However, I do know that when you change from main bolts to studs, it is highly recommended that you have the main journals checked for proper runout. Other than that, when I installed mine I had to clearance the girdle to clear the 7/16" rod bolts on my C&A rods (3.00" stroke, 5.400" rods), had to modify the moroso oil pickup to conform to the shape of the girdle (a tool is included for re-profiling the oil pickup tube), and relocate/reweld the mounting tab that retains the p/u to one of the studs. I doubt you'll have any clearance issues with stock rods/bolts, but you will have to reshape the oil p/u tube. I picked the aluminum support over the steel version for what was described by Eric, in that it absorbs engine harmonics, unlike the steel versions... __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

02-21-2003, 08:42 AM	#10
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	ultraflow, I sent you a PM __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

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