Windsor Verse a Clevland

Miss Mischief · 03-06-2003, 07:36 AM

Ok I have a Heavily Modified 351W In My 91 Lx But Ive never Understood the Lore about the 351C. The windsor Verse the Clevland Engine To Me its Like say I have a 4 speed Munci. To me that means You 4 speed manual Transmision was Built at the Munci Indiana Plant. The 351 Clevland was Made In Clevland Ohio the Windsor,,, To me this is all just Plant designation so what am I not getting?

87BOSS351C · 03-06-2003, 08:52 AM

The C and W are 2 completely different engine designs that only really share displacement,motor mounts and bellhousing patterns. Everything else is different. The C was basically an all out racing design (originally); a "small block" engine with "big block" heads on it. In reallity the C isn't one or the other (small or big block).

The only reason for the letters is because Ford made 3 unique 351 displacement engines within a short time period that needed to be identified in different ways. The 351W (just a tall deck 302 with a longer stroke), the 351C (high performance mid sized engine of the early '70s) and the 351M (destroked 400 to fill in for the high demand for 351 engines after the C was discontinued and the Windsor plant couldn't keep up with the demand).

So you see, it's not just plant designation, but engine identification.

By the way, the 351M was cast at both the Cleveland Foundry (CF) and the Michigan Casting Center (MCC), so plant designation falls apart there.

Hope this helps.

Miss Mischief · 03-06-2003, 08:56 AM

Yes Thank you.

RoadWarrior · 03-06-2003, 12:18 PM

As previously said there are some big differences between the 351W and the 351C. One of the biggest thing about the clevelands were the heads. They used heads with a canted valve kinda like the chev 350 uses. They are said to be one of the more powerful small block heads that ford made. The block also boasts many differences in that the water jackets are different and the blocks are usually 4 bolt main blocks. Some of the clevelands actually took parts from the boss mustang. I know the cleveland in my dads car was built using the Boss crank and its supposed to be good to like 8000. They are very well built engines and great for modding the only disadvantage is finding a good one and the aftermarket parts arent as readily available.

GTSteed89 · 03-06-2003, 12:55 PM

The 351C has smaller main journals which accept higher revs a little easier also.

PKRWUD · 03-11-2003, 09:46 AM

Keep in mind as well that the 302 was actually made at the Cleveland plant, not the Windsor plant. The 302 shares design similarities with the 351W, which is why it is often called a Windsor engine, but in reality, it's not.

Take care,
~Chris

Miss Mischief · 03-11-2003, 10:45 AM

But Follow Me Here Ok from what Ive learned about "What is a Stroker engine" and about the 351 It seems Litterially that the 351 is Nothing But a Factory Stroker. Or Im I completly worng again

BilLster · 03-11-2003, 03:35 PM

no the 351 has a higher deck casting height
than a 302
you can strock a 351 to 454 in theory if you had all the right parts
stroking a 302 to 351 is quit a hard task thats why 347 are about the max.
302 and 351 w arent the same blocks intake manifolds wont interchange and most offten you need difrent headers.
dont think about it as stroking but adding cylender bore up higher on a 302. a 351c is better stock but parts are pricy and hard to find.

in a pinch you can bolt 351c heads on to a 351 w but you have to make your own intake manifold since b&a stopped making theres

dragstang86 · 03-11-2003, 03:54 PM

ive been told a 347 is actually 350 cubes but ford didnt want to advertise it as a 350 because of the 350 chevy. I dont know if it has any truth behind it though. Guess u would have to do the math.

VeNuM · 03-11-2003, 06:52 PM

A 302 block bored out .030 over and stroked to 3.400 is 347, not 350. ~Brian

03-06-2003, 07:36 AM	#1
Miss Mischief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Still Ugly as ever Posts: 111	Windsor Verse a Clevland Ok I have a Heavily Modified 351W In My 91 Lx But Ive never Understood the Lore about the 351C. The windsor Verse the Clevland Engine To Me its Like say I have a 4 speed Munci. To me that means You 4 speed manual Transmision was Built at the Munci Indiana Plant. The 351 Clevland was Made In Clevland Ohio the Windsor,,, To me this is all just Plant designation so what am I not getting? __________________ Miss Mischief RHC#153 Proud to carry the Card 2000 V-6 5 speed Frame Braces [Steeda] [Wanna be Cobra] 17" Rims with Kuhmo 245's 5 Spoke Gunmetal finish [Power Dyne] Blower Unpolished 6 psi {Mods to Come} [Steeda] Springs slightly lower then stock [Steeda] Anti sway bars front and rear. 1999 Jeep Cherokee Big six 5 speed Infinty Bose steroe Lots of Creatures Comforts [Mods] Brush/ Push bar Full length Welded and Bolted , Tow Hook Front and Rear 30" Goodyear AT's .

03-06-2003, 08:52 AM	#2
87BOSS351C Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Midland, Michigan Posts: 92	The C and W are 2 completely different engine designs that only really share displacement,motor mounts and bellhousing patterns. Everything else is different. The C was basically an all out racing design (originally); a "small block" engine with "big block" heads on it. In reallity the C isn't one or the other (small or big block). The only reason for the letters is because Ford made 3 unique 351 displacement engines within a short time period that needed to be identified in different ways. The 351W (just a tall deck 302 with a longer stroke), the 351C (high performance mid sized engine of the early '70s) and the 351M (destroked 400 to fill in for the high demand for 351 engines after the C was discontinued and the Windsor plant couldn't keep up with the demand). So you see, it's not just plant designation, but engine identification. By the way, the 351M was cast at both the Cleveland Foundry (CF) and the Michigan Casting Center (MCC), so plant designation falls apart there. Hope this helps. __________________ Black '87 LX 5.0 5 spd T-top with 450hp '71 351 Cleveland 4V, C6 tranny, "and some other stuff" Rice Haters Club Member #124

03-06-2003, 08:56 AM	#3
Miss Mischief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Still Ugly as ever Posts: 111	I can see clearly :p Yes Thank you. __________________ Miss Mischief RHC#153 Proud to carry the Card 2000 V-6 5 speed Frame Braces [Steeda] [Wanna be Cobra] 17" Rims with Kuhmo 245's 5 Spoke Gunmetal finish [Power Dyne] Blower Unpolished 6 psi {Mods to Come} [Steeda] Springs slightly lower then stock [Steeda] Anti sway bars front and rear. 1999 Jeep Cherokee Big six 5 speed Infinty Bose steroe Lots of Creatures Comforts [Mods] Brush/ Push bar Full length Welded and Bolted , Tow Hook Front and Rear 30" Goodyear AT's .

03-06-2003, 12:18 PM	#4
RoadWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada Posts: 317	As previously said there are some big differences between the 351W and the 351C. One of the biggest thing about the clevelands were the heads. They used heads with a canted valve kinda like the chev 350 uses. They are said to be one of the more powerful small block heads that ford made. The block also boasts many differences in that the water jackets are different and the blocks are usually 4 bolt main blocks. Some of the clevelands actually took parts from the boss mustang. I know the cleveland in my dads car was built using the Boss crank and its supposed to be good to like 8000. They are very well built engines and great for modding the only disadvantage is finding a good one and the aftermarket parts arent as readily available. __________________ Fast Company

03-06-2003, 12:55 PM	#5
GTSteed89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Leesport, PA USA Posts: 24	The 351C has smaller main journals which accept higher revs a little easier also. __________________ 89GT, 392, AFR 185's, 11.30:1 compression, Victor Jr., 241/251 dur. @.050 with .570 lift with 1.72's, 750 Speed Demon,1 3/4 longtubes, C4 w/ 8in., 3.73's, Detroit Locker, sway bar off front, Moroso Trick drag springs on all 4 corners, Pro3I control arms with adjustable spring jack, HPM Double adjustable uppers, solid bushings, 70/30's, subframes, 3" X-pipe, 2 chamber flows (3") 11.05 @ 120 1.51 60ft. on 26x10 Hoosier slicks. 11.06 @ 121 1.54 60ft. with the 8 inch and 26x10 Mickey slicks.

03-11-2003, 09:46 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Keep in mind as well that the 302 was actually made at the Cleveland plant, not the Windsor plant. The 302 shares design similarities with the 351W, which is why it is often called a Windsor engine, but in reality, it's not. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-11-2003, 10:45 AM	#7
Miss Mischief Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Still Ugly as ever Posts: 111	This Is a Bit of a step to the right But Follow Me Here Ok from what Ive learned about "What is a Stroker engine" and about the 351 It seems Litterially that the 351 is Nothing But a Factory Stroker. Or Im I completly worng again __________________ Miss Mischief RHC#153 Proud to carry the Card 2000 V-6 5 speed Frame Braces [Steeda] [Wanna be Cobra] 17" Rims with Kuhmo 245's 5 Spoke Gunmetal finish [Power Dyne] Blower Unpolished 6 psi {Mods to Come} [Steeda] Springs slightly lower then stock [Steeda] Anti sway bars front and rear. 1999 Jeep Cherokee Big six 5 speed Infinty Bose steroe Lots of Creatures Comforts [Mods] Brush/ Push bar Full length Welded and Bolted , Tow Hook Front and Rear 30" Goodyear AT's .

03-11-2003, 03:35 PM	#8
BilLster Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario canada Posts: 446	no the 351 has a higher deck casting height than a 302 you can strock a 351 to 454 in theory if you had all the right parts stroking a 302 to 351 is quit a hard task thats why 347 are about the max. 302 and 351 w arent the same blocks intake manifolds wont interchange and most offten you need difrent headers. dont think about it as stroking but adding cylender bore up higher on a 302. a 351c is better stock but parts are pricy and hard to find. in a pinch you can bolt 351c heads on to a 351 w but you have to make your own intake manifold since b&a stopped making theres __________________ 89 with 331 t3'/t4 hybrids. upr Suspention worked out finnaly . 9.89 144 mph .

03-11-2003, 03:54 PM	#9
dragstang86 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: baltimore, md Posts: 220	ive been told a 347 is actually 350 cubes but ford didnt want to advertise it as a 350 because of the 350 chevy. I dont know if it has any truth behind it though. Guess u would have to do the math. __________________ 90 LX Hatchback 306, AFR 165's 58cc, E303, 1.6 roller rockers, 70mm throttle body, cobra intake, bbk fenderwell, bbk longtubes, x-pipe, flowmasters, pullies, msd 6a, crane ps-92, stock MAF sensor, electric fan, No AC, No air pump, flaming river quick ratio rack C-4, 3500 stall, 373's, aluminum driveshaft SSM Lift bars, , sub frame connectors, strut tower brace 12.57 @105.12mph w/ 1.686 60ft before bbk longtubes (with equal shorties) ----------------------------------------- 86 tube chassis coupe - the trailor queen

03-11-2003, 06:52 PM	#10
VeNuM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 464	A 302 block bored out .030 over and stroked to 3.400 is 347, not 350. ~Brian __________________ 1989 Black Mustang GT Hatchback, Underdrive Pulles, Electric Fan, Cold Air Intake, Headers, Offroad H-Pipe, Magnaflow catback, Steeda Tri-Ax, Fluidyne Aluminum Radiator, Timing at 14*, 3.73's Coming not so soon: 408w Ricer Hater's Club Member #59

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