Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question

eddielugnutz · 12-02-2005, 01:46 PM

Are the timing covers from a 77 302 and a 87 302 the same? (aside from machined hole for dipstick tube and fuel pump on the 77)

I have a 77 302 with dipstick in the timing cover, can I use the timing cover with my serpentine accesories on my 87 GT?, it appears that all the bolt hole locations on cover and water pump are identical, so I can use the 87 water pump, but to run the dipstick I will have to drill a hole in the accesory bracket on passenger side obviously to fit the dipstick. Is this what other people have done when swapping motors? Just curious, worst case scenario I got to V belt, but I'd like to keep my serpentine.

It doesn't matter if your motor is two piece ro One piece rear seal when it comes to oil pans right? I can use my 87 pan on the 77 motor without a problem?

Ieatcamaros · 12-05-2005, 08:47 PM

I haven't used them that way, but I have used an early model cover on a late model block. The hole is 5/16" and you will want to drill it a little under size and then run a reamer through it. If you don't have access to a reamer, then a 5/16 drill will work. Just make sure you drill it a tad undersize first. You want the dipstick tube to fit snugly.

The oil pan will work either way.

rwhite65 · 12-06-2005, 12:52 PM

I used a 77 or so on the 91 block, and have used a 65 model before. They will bolt up, but as you already noted, u are gonna have to play with the dip stick a little and may or may not have to worry about the fuel pump depending on ur set-up.

Why do you want to relocate ur dip stick if already have a late model oil pan? If I read ur post correctly, why not use the 77 cover and just plug the hole off? That is what I did on a 408w swap this summer.
Ryan

Ieatcamaros · 12-06-2005, 08:26 PM

The oil pan is not the difference. The dipstick tube goes in the block just above the oil pan. The old blocks don't have this hole.

Just use the old timing cover, it will work fine.

rwhite65 · 12-07-2005, 02:47 AM

Ok, I must be confused, I thought his question was for a late model engine using the older style cover. I dont see why the dip stick would need to be moved from its current location on the 87 engine to the earlier style up front.
Ryan

Gearhead999 · 12-07-2005, 01:24 PM

Depends if it is a front sump oil pan, rear sump oil pan or a double sump oil pan.

The front sump pan needs the dipstick in the timing cover.

The rear sump and double sump pans need the dipstick back on the side of the block.

~The Jester~ · 12-07-2005, 09:13 PM

I'm "assuming" (and we all know what THAT does!) this motor is going in an '87 GT???

Front cover will work, plug the dipstick, and use the one in the block.

I'm really confused on this one.

What car is this '87 GT motor going in? Like Gearhead said, it all depends on the pan, which translates into WHAT CAR?

rwhite65 · 12-09-2005, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~The Jester~

I'm "assuming" (and we all know what THAT does!) this motor is going in an '87 GT???

Front cover will work, plug the dipstick, and use the one in the block.

I'm really confused on this one.

What car is this '87 GT motor going in? Like Gearhead said, it all depends on the pan, which translates into WHAT CAR?

Exactly what I was getting at, although maybe not as clearly as I shoulda.
Ryan

eddielugnutz · 12-10-2005, 04:13 AM

Uh, guys, I thank you for your advice, and to make it more clear, I have a 77 motor that I'm putting into a 87 car, I ended up drilling the hole throught the bracket for the alternator, it was easy and everthing fits fine, the dipstick is a little bent, needs a little finagling to get it in and out.

Next question is, it looks like i'm going with the ford motorsport 28oz flywheel with the 157teeth 10.5" clutch like I need. Fluidampner 28oz with the crank pulley spacer to run serpentine. Not to be ghetto or anything, but couldn't you just shim the pulley with washers and accomplish the same thing, or is that too ghetto? I'm using the spacer, but just curious if anyone has ever done that. Of course I would use a washer of the apropriate size so it doesn't make it off balance, it seems feasible.

God, I wish I could just finish this damn motor already, I still need to buy the heads, I'm so broke this Christmas, I seriously contemplated dumping my girlfriend just to be able to afford the heads, that's desperate for speed!

Ieatcamaros · 12-11-2005, 03:09 PM

The stack of washers would work, but that would be aggravating as hell to put together. And all stacks should measure the same thickness within a few thousandths.

So, you are using this in a 87 mustang? You should have a double hump oil pan and a rear sump oil pump and pickup. Therefore, your dipstick should be in the back.

Once I thought of getting a divorce just to afford racing. She is just too good to me. I couldn't get the car to make supper and do my laundry, let alone anything else.

rwhite65 · 12-11-2005, 04:25 PM

I have used washers to get the crank pulley to line up once upon a time. If you decide to do this, I used some "Indian" gasket maker to stick the washers in place, then left it there for a few minutes. After that, they stayed put.
Ryan

Gearhead999 · 12-11-2005, 04:26 PM

Good wives are hard to come by, I have a great one too. Good wives understand our car nut stuff.

But, girlfriends....heck you can always get another girlfriend.

I get the car stuff first. You're only 23....mucho years left to find the RIGHT woman.

~The Jester~ · 12-11-2005, 07:28 PM

That balancer is built to exacting standards, obivously balanced within .5 oz or so. Ya think all those washers are? I doubt it. NO WAY I would do that, use the spacer that's built for the job.

As far as wives go, I took mine out on our first date 16 years ago, and she STILL hasn't left! Good girl to put up with my BS this long!

12-02-2005, 01:46 PM	#1
eddielugnutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question Are the timing covers from a 77 302 and a 87 302 the same? (aside from machined hole for dipstick tube and fuel pump on the 77) I have a 77 302 with dipstick in the timing cover, can I use the timing cover with my serpentine accesories on my 87 GT?, it appears that all the bolt hole locations on cover and water pump are identical, so I can use the 87 water pump, but to run the dipstick I will have to drill a hole in the accesory bracket on passenger side obviously to fit the dipstick. Is this what other people have done when swapping motors? Just curious, worst case scenario I got to V belt, but I'd like to keep my serpentine. It doesn't matter if your motor is two piece ro One piece rear seal when it comes to oil pans right? I can use my 87 pan on the 77 motor without a problem? __________________ 88 Lx project. 96 Z28 daily driver.

12-05-2005, 08:47 PM	#2
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question I haven't used them that way, but I have used an early model cover on a late model block. The hole is 5/16" and you will want to drill it a little under size and then run a reamer through it. If you don't have access to a reamer, then a 5/16 drill will work. Just make sure you drill it a tad undersize first. You want the dipstick tube to fit snugly. The oil pan will work either way. __________________ The sig says it all.

12-06-2005, 12:52 PM	#3
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question I used a 77 or so on the 91 block, and have used a 65 model before. They will bolt up, but as you already noted, u are gonna have to play with the dip stick a little and may or may not have to worry about the fuel pump depending on ur set-up. Why do you want to relocate ur dip stick if already have a late model oil pan? If I read ur post correctly, why not use the 77 cover and just plug the hole off? That is what I did on a 408w swap this summer. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

12-06-2005, 08:26 PM	#4
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question The oil pan is not the difference. The dipstick tube goes in the block just above the oil pan. The old blocks don't have this hole. Just use the old timing cover, it will work fine. __________________ The sig says it all.

12-07-2005, 02:47 AM	#5
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question Ok, I must be confused, I thought his question was for a late model engine using the older style cover. I dont see why the dip stick would need to be moved from its current location on the 87 engine to the earlier style up front. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

12-07-2005, 01:24 PM	#6
Gearhead999 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 992	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question Depends if it is a front sump oil pan, rear sump oil pan or a double sump oil pan. The front sump pan needs the dipstick in the timing cover. The rear sump and double sump pans need the dipstick back on the side of the block. __________________ "Support our Troops" Dave 1968 Cougar 2004 Thunderbird 2007 F150 Harley-Davidson, SuperCrew 1986 LTD 1997 Ranger 1992 Honda Civic

12-07-2005, 09:13 PM	#7
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question I'm "assuming" (and we all know what THAT does!) this motor is going in an '87 GT??? Front cover will work, plug the dipstick, and use the one in the block. I'm really confused on this one. What car is this '87 GT motor going in? Like Gearhead said, it all depends on the pan, which translates into WHAT CAR? __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

12-10-2005, 04:13 AM	#9
eddielugnutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question Uh, guys, I thank you for your advice, and to make it more clear, I have a 77 motor that I'm putting into a 87 car, I ended up drilling the hole throught the bracket for the alternator, it was easy and everthing fits fine, the dipstick is a little bent, needs a little finagling to get it in and out. Next question is, it looks like i'm going with the ford motorsport 28oz flywheel with the 157teeth 10.5" clutch like I need. Fluidampner 28oz with the crank pulley spacer to run serpentine. Not to be ghetto or anything, but couldn't you just shim the pulley with washers and accomplish the same thing, or is that too ghetto? I'm using the spacer, but just curious if anyone has ever done that. Of course I would use a washer of the apropriate size so it doesn't make it off balance, it seems feasible. God, I wish I could just finish this damn motor already, I still need to buy the heads, I'm so broke this Christmas, I seriously contemplated dumping my girlfriend just to be able to afford the heads, that's desperate for speed! __________________ 88 Lx project. 96 Z28 daily driver.

12-11-2005, 03:09 PM	#10
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question The stack of washers would work, but that would be aggravating as hell to put together. And all stacks should measure the same thickness within a few thousandths. So, you are using this in a 87 mustang? You should have a double hump oil pan and a rear sump oil pump and pickup. Therefore, your dipstick should be in the back. Once I thought of getting a divorce just to afford racing. She is just too good to me. I couldn't get the car to make supper and do my laundry, let alone anything else. __________________ The sig says it all.

12-11-2005, 04:25 PM	#11
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question I have used washers to get the crank pulley to line up once upon a time. If you decide to do this, I used some "Indian" gasket maker to stick the washers in place, then left it there for a few minutes. After that, they stayed put. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

12-11-2005, 04:26 PM	#12
Gearhead999 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 992	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question Good wives are hard to come by, I have a great one too. Good wives understand our car nut stuff. But, girlfriends....heck you can always get another girlfriend. I get the car stuff first. You're only 23....mucho years left to find the RIGHT woman. __________________ "Support our Troops" Dave 1968 Cougar 2004 Thunderbird 2007 F150 Harley-Davidson, SuperCrew 1986 LTD 1997 Ranger 1992 Honda Civic

12-11-2005, 07:28 PM	#13
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Re: Pre 81 block Dipstick, timing cover and Pan question That balancer is built to exacting standards, obivously balanced within .5 oz or so. Ya think all those washers are? I doubt it. NO WAY I would do that, use the spacer that's built for the job. As far as wives go, I took mine out on our first date 16 years ago, and she STILL hasn't left! Good girl to put up with my BS this long! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....