'83 TBird Build

gsmotorsports · 04-13-2010, 11:18 PM

Hey guys, I'm seeking some advice. I have a 1983 Thunderbird with a 302 with TBI, AOD tranny, and am looking to rebuild it. Practically the whole thing. I wanna stick with the 302, whether it be bored out and stroked to a 347 or bored out 30 over if it needs it. Ill decide that later. But Im looking for a mostly street occasional strip application. I want to take the TBI out of there and plop a 4bbl holley on it and REALLY want to stick a 5 speed in there. (when i say stick i mean shove...) The problem is I know everything I want to do, I just dont know what all needs done in order to do it... My tranny is starting to go (slips) because the previous owners rigged up their own linkage, called it good, and stuck a for sale sign in the window. The engine does need rebuilt and im looking for a very high horse motor. if i can keep it a 302 i want to push at least 325-350 horse and depending on whether it gets bored or not maybe more. Im not sure whether to bore it out very much or not quite yet... but I know i want to completely rebuild the motor from inside to out (cam, pistons if needed, heads, intake, carb) raise the compression to anywhere from 9.5:1 to 10.5:1, and convert my car to a manual. I want to put a 5 speed (4 speed with OD) in it. dont know if that makes any difference or not. and also change try to find a 9" rear end. Any help would be awesome, and ideas would be greatly appreciated, just dont try to convince me not to do it. Kuz it's going to be done.

Thanks,
GS

goodyear1984 · 04-18-2010, 01:33 PM

ok well the first thing i can tell you is u dont have to get all worried about the rear end and dump a high dollar 9in in . you prolly have a 7.5 rear end.i would get a 8.8 rear end outta stang or turbo coupe,cuz they do have a clutch style posi set up and they can take alot of power and with you only asking for 350hp the 8.8 will take it and ask for more.
now to the tranny end of it the aod is a weak tranny and its hard anuf to keep an aod tranny alive when using a stock motor,the only way i would use an aod is if it was built.u can put a 5 speed in it with no problems,u can take a t5 5speed out of a 86-93 stang and it will bolt in.u will have to get the pedals from a stang.ucan get the pedals from a 87-88 turbo coupe and all u have to do is cut the tube down a little bit that the clutch quadrent goes in,it may sound like some messing around but its an easy swap if you have the pedals,clutch cable and quadrent,bellhousing,tranny,tranny crossmember.
now the engine side.there is a million was you can go about building your motor.all i can tell u is and this is from experiance.ok im going to give u a few different scenarios and the first one is if you are doin a stockish rebuild .now if the internals are in good anuf shape to re ring and bearing it and u dont want to spend alot of money have the blocked hot tanked and cleaned,crank polished,have the rods rebuilt,have the cylinders honed,have cam bearings installed and have the deck checked for straightness,then u get the rings bearings oil pump gasket set timing gears and chain.this is a budget build and is only assuming that the internals are in good shape and if they are u can have a pretty good bottom end that will run good for well under a thousand bucks ,you will need to ditch the stock headsand camshaft if you want to make any kind of power you could get a set of gt40 iron heads for around 300 bucks and a decent cam for around 200 bucks,rpm style dual plane intake around 180 bucks and a 600 cfm holley carb around 300 bucks.
now the next budget build that would be almost a better way to go would be to get a 87-93 mustang ho 302 thats in good shape,you can find them any where and for under 500 bucks for a good 1. they have factory forged pistons witch ur motor now doesnt have.if u find a good one then clean it up, install new gaskets, and now u should have some money for a good set of heads like afr 165s that will bolt on and have no clearance problems with the stock pistons,an rpm dual plane intake holley carb and you will get over your 350 hp request.there are many heads but thats just a great head and there actually worth something if u wanna sell them ever.
now this is assuming you have the money to completely rebuild the motor,you could do 306 or a stroker motor 331 or a 347.now lets say for going to buy a scat crank,scat rods and je pistons for a 306 build,well y would you build a 306 when the crank, rods and pistons for the 306 are about the same price as the crank rods and pistons to build a 347 and when i mean about the same price we are talking about dollars not hundreds of dollars buy a few dollars more if any and u get 41 more cubic inches for around the same price and the old saying theres no replacement for displacement is true.and any 1 that says 347 motors are crap eaither never has had one or built 1 with cheep parts or assembled it them self and had no idea what there doing .no if you build a 347 the machine shop will charge you around 120 or so yo grind away the bottom of the cylinders to accept the longer rods and the balancing will run you a a hundred or so more but if you look at the big picture your talking a few hundred bucks to build a 347 rather then a 306 and this is assuming your going to buy all new internals .ive seen people make the mistake of building a 306 and not being happy about the power and then building a 347.and the thing about that is now say you did build a 306 and u now want to build a 347 well now the heads, intake,cam and carb are to small for the 347 and now you have to buy different heads,carb,cam and intake.you could use the stuff from the 306 buy y would you do that when the 347 has the potenial to make way more power.
so basically be 100%sure on what your goin to do with your engine,make sure your goin to be happy.you dont wanna buy the same parts twice because your not happy ive been down that road befor and i hope none of you people do that.if i were you i would eaither get a 302 ho from a 87-93 stang and put some heads on it or i would do a 347, dollar for dollar thoes are the 2 biggest bangs for your buck.also make sure when u do choose your engine you get back on here and do your home work for your cam heads intake and carb selections. i cant stress anuf that you must make sure that you buy the right heads intake carb and cam if u mix match parts and they dont work togeather u will have a slugish engine that wont run to its potencial.
i hope this gives you some imput on your situation.let me know if you have any questions.
ps i know i suck at spelling lol

gsmotorsports · 04-19-2010, 11:55 AM

goodyear, great reply man!
Ive been looking into 347 strokers for a while now, but ive heard they dont handle turbo's well which makes sense.
I've been thinking of getting some turbo's off of a couple turbo coupes and makin my Thunderbird a TT Heritage. lol but if i go that route I want to find the most Cubic Inches that will give me the most muscle but still handle a Twin Turbo configuration well.
I want it to be more muscle than anything, so at least 350 HP of pure muscle before the turbo's are put on would be ideal. I was thinking bore it out to a 316? no special reason for 316 i just kinda came up with it and was pretty sure it would give me decent power along with the durability to handle the turbo's as well. But if theres still more cubic inches to be had from the block and still be able to handle the turbo's, what would it be??
Thanks again goodyear

gsmotorsports · 05-10-2010, 11:55 AM

Ok im scrapping the turbo idea, I wanna just stick with straight motor. Im thinking either 347 or 306. The only reason im thinking 306 is because it would get better mileage... right? This is probably going to be a daily driver and 5 mpg to school and back doesnt sound too great. but if the difference isnt too much between a 306 and 347 mileage wise i would much rather have a 347. and if i were to buy a stroker kit to stroke it to a 347 then could i still use the holley carb, rpm air gap intake, and instead of spending a zillion dollars on the afr's what about the trickflow twisted wedge heads? I heard theyre the next best thing and would save me anywhere from 500 to 1000 dollars on my build...
and dont forget this is going to be more of a street car than anything. so maybe a 331 would handle street better??
just wondering what would give me the best all around motor with PLENTY of power to be happy with.

goodyear1984 · 05-15-2010, 10:19 PM

a 347 would handle a turbo no problem.but rember if your goin to turbo the engine you are going to need to have lower compression ratio and have the right cam and right carb.the only reason y i would say the 347 wouldnt handle a turbo is the block.the stock blocks really are not that strong pretty much like 550 ish horsepower is about as high as i would go and a main guridle is a must, so what im getting at is if u build a 347 and say it makes 450 hp then u turbo it ur gonna be cracking that block in half.now if you go with a $2000. dart block then u have a block that will hold. 2 grand is alot of money but the dart block has pretty much all the machine work done so if u think about it u will save around 500 bucks in machine work with the dart block.as far as heads go you get what you pay for.i personally would spend the extra money and get afr heads,if you seen the quality of them u would know what i mean.i have patriot freedom heads on my 347 and they do work good,they were like 800 bare then by the time i got good valve train for the heads i had over 1300 into them,dont get me wrong they work good but for the extra money i would have got the afr heads and i know i would have gotten some more hp.i could have bought the patriot heads assembled but there cheaper heads and who knows what brand valve train the company would have put in and u know afr valve train would be good.so basically as far as heads go just get the assembled afr heads.well the gas millage in my 500hp 347 is not great i get around 10mpg but i also want the most out for the motor so i have a quick fuel q series 750 .if your worried about gas millage then i would just stick to a 302 ho bottom end slap a set of arf heads on it and a paxton super charger, you would get ok gas millage untill you boost it .or a mild 347 with a basic holly street carb.me personally i could never build a 306 just for the simple fact that u spend a little more and get a 347.

gsmotorsports · 05-16-2010, 06:03 PM

Aright thanks again man, I have some more thinking to do for a while but school's about out so as summer comes in so should the parts! ill keep everything up to date

gsmotorsports · 10-06-2010, 11:31 PM

Aright well I've been looking back into things and have learned a lot so now it comes to some probly easy to answer questions that i have. I've read about tons of 347's not lasting very long. some as few as 10K miles. But is that just due to the quality of the parts used and maintenance of the engine rather than pushing the block to its limits?
I've been thinking about reliability and quality as well too. Would a 347 really be that smart of a build for a reliable street racer? I dont see myself driving my Bird nicely with 450 ponies under the hood and thats also a lot of mouths to feed. I have a great sound system in my car as well so I love to just go on drives. But I dont even see a 347 getting much over 15 mpg on even the highway... Would a 306 get any better? Yes theres less displacement so theoretically it wouldnt use as much gas... right?
Basically here is what I'm getting at. Would a 347 for basically sole street use be overkill compared to a somewhat more economical 306 w/ EFI and a small turbo? I feel that the 306 would give me plenty of power for street light racing and be plenty more reliable than a 347 which may possibly only last me 10,000 miles...
Just some thoughts let me know what you guys think.
Thanks

04-13-2010, 11:18 PM	#1
gsmotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	'83 TBird Build Hey guys, I'm seeking some advice. I have a 1983 Thunderbird with a 302 with TBI, AOD tranny, and am looking to rebuild it. Practically the whole thing. I wanna stick with the 302, whether it be bored out and stroked to a 347 or bored out 30 over if it needs it. Ill decide that later. But Im looking for a mostly street occasional strip application. I want to take the TBI out of there and plop a 4bbl holley on it and REALLY want to stick a 5 speed in there. (when i say stick i mean shove...) The problem is I know everything I want to do, I just dont know what all needs done in order to do it... My tranny is starting to go (slips) because the previous owners rigged up their own linkage, called it good, and stuck a for sale sign in the window. The engine does need rebuilt and im looking for a very high horse motor. if i can keep it a 302 i want to push at least 325-350 horse and depending on whether it gets bored or not maybe more. Im not sure whether to bore it out very much or not quite yet... but I know i want to completely rebuild the motor from inside to out (cam, pistons if needed, heads, intake, carb) raise the compression to anywhere from 9.5:1 to 10.5:1, and convert my car to a manual. I want to put a 5 speed (4 speed with OD) in it. dont know if that makes any difference or not. and also change try to find a 9" rear end. Any help would be awesome, and ideas would be greatly appreciated, just dont try to convince me not to do it. Kuz it's going to be done. Thanks, GS

04-18-2010, 01:33 PM	#2
goodyear1984 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: new york Posts: 482	Re: '83 TBird Build ok well the first thing i can tell you is u dont have to get all worried about the rear end and dump a high dollar 9in in . you prolly have a 7.5 rear end.i would get a 8.8 rear end outta stang or turbo coupe,cuz they do have a clutch style posi set up and they can take alot of power and with you only asking for 350hp the 8.8 will take it and ask for more. now to the tranny end of it the aod is a weak tranny and its hard anuf to keep an aod tranny alive when using a stock motor,the only way i would use an aod is if it was built.u can put a 5 speed in it with no problems,u can take a t5 5speed out of a 86-93 stang and it will bolt in.u will have to get the pedals from a stang.ucan get the pedals from a 87-88 turbo coupe and all u have to do is cut the tube down a little bit that the clutch quadrent goes in,it may sound like some messing around but its an easy swap if you have the pedals,clutch cable and quadrent,bellhousing,tranny,tranny crossmember. now the engine side.there is a million was you can go about building your motor.all i can tell u is and this is from experiance.ok im going to give u a few different scenarios and the first one is if you are doin a stockish rebuild .now if the internals are in good anuf shape to re ring and bearing it and u dont want to spend alot of money have the blocked hot tanked and cleaned,crank polished,have the rods rebuilt,have the cylinders honed,have cam bearings installed and have the deck checked for straightness,then u get the rings bearings oil pump gasket set timing gears and chain.this is a budget build and is only assuming that the internals are in good shape and if they are u can have a pretty good bottom end that will run good for well under a thousand bucks ,you will need to ditch the stock headsand camshaft if you want to make any kind of power you could get a set of gt40 iron heads for around 300 bucks and a decent cam for around 200 bucks,rpm style dual plane intake around 180 bucks and a 600 cfm holley carb around 300 bucks. now the next budget build that would be almost a better way to go would be to get a 87-93 mustang ho 302 thats in good shape,you can find them any where and for under 500 bucks for a good 1. they have factory forged pistons witch ur motor now doesnt have.if u find a good one then clean it up, install new gaskets, and now u should have some money for a good set of heads like afr 165s that will bolt on and have no clearance problems with the stock pistons,an rpm dual plane intake holley carb and you will get over your 350 hp request.there are many heads but thats just a great head and there actually worth something if u wanna sell them ever. now this is assuming you have the money to completely rebuild the motor,you could do 306 or a stroker motor 331 or a 347.now lets say for going to buy a scat crank,scat rods and je pistons for a 306 build,well y would you build a 306 when the crank, rods and pistons for the 306 are about the same price as the crank rods and pistons to build a 347 and when i mean about the same price we are talking about dollars not hundreds of dollars buy a few dollars more if any and u get 41 more cubic inches for around the same price and the old saying theres no replacement for displacement is true.and any 1 that says 347 motors are crap eaither never has had one or built 1 with cheep parts or assembled it them self and had no idea what there doing .no if you build a 347 the machine shop will charge you around 120 or so yo grind away the bottom of the cylinders to accept the longer rods and the balancing will run you a a hundred or so more but if you look at the big picture your talking a few hundred bucks to build a 347 rather then a 306 and this is assuming your going to buy all new internals .ive seen people make the mistake of building a 306 and not being happy about the power and then building a 347.and the thing about that is now say you did build a 306 and u now want to build a 347 well now the heads, intake,cam and carb are to small for the 347 and now you have to buy different heads,carb,cam and intake.you could use the stuff from the 306 buy y would you do that when the 347 has the potenial to make way more power. so basically be 100%sure on what your goin to do with your engine,make sure your goin to be happy.you dont wanna buy the same parts twice because your not happy ive been down that road befor and i hope none of you people do that.if i were you i would eaither get a 302 ho from a 87-93 stang and put some heads on it or i would do a 347, dollar for dollar thoes are the 2 biggest bangs for your buck.also make sure when u do choose your engine you get back on here and do your home work for your cam heads intake and carb selections. i cant stress anuf that you must make sure that you buy the right heads intake carb and cam if u mix match parts and they dont work togeather u will have a slugish engine that wont run to its potencial. i hope this gives you some imput on your situation.let me know if you have any questions. ps i know i suck at spelling lol __________________ 347 stroker all forged,arp everything,stud mains w/girdle,7qt pan,full roller, custom cam, aluminum heads swirl valves 5 angle valve job.quick fuel 750,areomotive pump,cobras w/nitto drags,and m/t et drags for the track, ford racing 373 gears,centerforce clutch,tko500,underdrive pulleys,bassani x-pipe,flowmasters ^best et so far 11.6 1.61 60ft coming soon 9sec et's 1992 mustang gt 2001 gmc 1500 4x4 78 century boat 92 skidoo

04-19-2010, 11:55 AM	#3
gsmotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Re: '83 TBird Build goodyear, great reply man! Ive been looking into 347 strokers for a while now, but ive heard they dont handle turbo's well which makes sense. I've been thinking of getting some turbo's off of a couple turbo coupes and makin my Thunderbird a TT Heritage. lol but if i go that route I want to find the most Cubic Inches that will give me the most muscle but still handle a Twin Turbo configuration well. I want it to be more muscle than anything, so at least 350 HP of pure muscle before the turbo's are put on would be ideal. I was thinking bore it out to a 316? no special reason for 316 i just kinda came up with it and was pretty sure it would give me decent power along with the durability to handle the turbo's as well. But if theres still more cubic inches to be had from the block and still be able to handle the turbo's, what would it be?? Thanks again goodyear

05-10-2010, 11:55 AM	#4
gsmotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Re: '83 TBird Build Ok im scrapping the turbo idea, I wanna just stick with straight motor. Im thinking either 347 or 306. The only reason im thinking 306 is because it would get better mileage... right? This is probably going to be a daily driver and 5 mpg to school and back doesnt sound too great. but if the difference isnt too much between a 306 and 347 mileage wise i would much rather have a 347. and if i were to buy a stroker kit to stroke it to a 347 then could i still use the holley carb, rpm air gap intake, and instead of spending a zillion dollars on the afr's what about the trickflow twisted wedge heads? I heard theyre the next best thing and would save me anywhere from 500 to 1000 dollars on my build... and dont forget this is going to be more of a street car than anything. so maybe a 331 would handle street better?? just wondering what would give me the best all around motor with PLENTY of power to be happy with.

05-15-2010, 10:19 PM	#5
goodyear1984 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: new york Posts: 482	Re: '83 TBird Build a 347 would handle a turbo no problem.but rember if your goin to turbo the engine you are going to need to have lower compression ratio and have the right cam and right carb.the only reason y i would say the 347 wouldnt handle a turbo is the block.the stock blocks really are not that strong pretty much like 550 ish horsepower is about as high as i would go and a main guridle is a must, so what im getting at is if u build a 347 and say it makes 450 hp then u turbo it ur gonna be cracking that block in half.now if you go with a $2000. dart block then u have a block that will hold. 2 grand is alot of money but the dart block has pretty much all the machine work done so if u think about it u will save around 500 bucks in machine work with the dart block.as far as heads go you get what you pay for.i personally would spend the extra money and get afr heads,if you seen the quality of them u would know what i mean.i have patriot freedom heads on my 347 and they do work good,they were like 800 bare then by the time i got good valve train for the heads i had over 1300 into them,dont get me wrong they work good but for the extra money i would have got the afr heads and i know i would have gotten some more hp.i could have bought the patriot heads assembled but there cheaper heads and who knows what brand valve train the company would have put in and u know afr valve train would be good.so basically as far as heads go just get the assembled afr heads.well the gas millage in my 500hp 347 is not great i get around 10mpg but i also want the most out for the motor so i have a quick fuel q series 750 .if your worried about gas millage then i would just stick to a 302 ho bottom end slap a set of arf heads on it and a paxton super charger, you would get ok gas millage untill you boost it .or a mild 347 with a basic holly street carb.me personally i could never build a 306 just for the simple fact that u spend a little more and get a 347. __________________ 347 stroker all forged,arp everything,stud mains w/girdle,7qt pan,full roller, custom cam, aluminum heads swirl valves 5 angle valve job.quick fuel 750,areomotive pump,cobras w/nitto drags,and m/t et drags for the track, ford racing 373 gears,centerforce clutch,tko500,underdrive pulleys,bassani x-pipe,flowmasters ^best et so far 11.6 1.61 60ft coming soon 9sec et's 1992 mustang gt 2001 gmc 1500 4x4 78 century boat 92 skidoo

05-16-2010, 06:03 PM	#6
gsmotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Re: '83 TBird Build Aright thanks again man, I have some more thinking to do for a while but school's about out so as summer comes in so should the parts! ill keep everything up to date

10-06-2010, 11:31 PM	#7
gsmotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Re: '83 TBird Build Aright well I've been looking back into things and have learned a lot so now it comes to some probly easy to answer questions that i have. I've read about tons of 347's not lasting very long. some as few as 10K miles. But is that just due to the quality of the parts used and maintenance of the engine rather than pushing the block to its limits? I've been thinking about reliability and quality as well too. Would a 347 really be that smart of a build for a reliable street racer? I dont see myself driving my Bird nicely with 450 ponies under the hood and thats also a lot of mouths to feed. I have a great sound system in my car as well so I love to just go on drives. But I dont even see a 347 getting much over 15 mpg on even the highway... Would a 306 get any better? Yes theres less displacement so theoretically it wouldnt use as much gas... right? Basically here is what I'm getting at. Would a 347 for basically sole street use be overkill compared to a somewhat more economical 306 w/ EFI and a small turbo? I feel that the 306 would give me plenty of power for street light racing and be plenty more reliable than a 347 which may possibly only last me 10,000 miles... Just some thoughts let me know what you guys think. Thanks

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