Very disappointed with my 347 dyno! - Page 2

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 01-10-2001, 09:17 PM

i just finished reading the jan 01 issue of MM&FF &they made 475hp@6500 & 422lbs-ft@510 with the trick flow R series intake. it is made for higher rpm's (2500-6500). it improved hp on their motor by 25 hp at 5500rpm over the gt-40 but torque fell 25hp.
they had afr185 heads, comp cams xe 292r cam, 10.5 comp, 70mm t/body, 77mm maf &36lb injectors

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 01-10-2001, 09:23 PM

It Was A 347 stroker

Five0 · 01-10-2001, 11:28 PM

I just sold my tfs track heat intake and I would say it was an ok intake but I think you can do better for the same amount of money. I also had to cut the throttle cable bracket to make it fit.

------------------
James Cox
nochevy@hotmail.com
1991 Mustang LX
Best 1/8 time on motor 7.686 @90.20mph

8850 · 01-11-2001, 12:32 AM

I am thinking that if this box changes the top end power like it should be and I don't lose low end too drastically, then the Victor 5.0 would give me even more top end and get back some of the low end loss that I will probably experience with the box.

Sound reasonable?

stanglx347,

Looks like the box worked pretty good for you. If that is the case I might just keep the box. Just depends on how the low end shows up on the dyno. You got to have torque at your stall speed in order to get a good 60' time. I have a 3200 stall so I got to get torque pretty close to that rpm or my 60' will suffer.

Skyman · 01-11-2001, 12:58 AM

Hmm, all I can say is that something is drastically wrong with that cam and 347 to be making power soo low. Once you get it all sorted out theres no reason you shouldn't pick up an easy 60-75hp, seeing that you will move up in the RPMS soo much.

low 10's maybe?

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, playing with timing still, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.
Best ET 13.2@106mph Needs tuning...

8850 · 01-11-2001, 11:02 AM

Skyman,

Low 10s sounds good to me. I really think it is possible too. An engine that is making 220 hp at 6000 rpm and running a 10.71 is pretty good. Of course the way this thing pulls at the lower rpm I must be making over 400 pounds of torque already. If I could move it up it has to improve my et. My engine is a monster when I punch it at 3000 rpm in second gear. First gear is wasted but in second even with slicks on the street I'm all over the road spinning.

01-11-2001, 11:14 PM

8850

My combo is as follows:

Trick Flow Street Heat heads, mildly ported.
1.72 FMS Rocker Arms

Lunati Cam ~550 lift and duration ~240 (I could be a bit off on the cam specs, it has been almost six years since the cam was put in sorry)

C-4 w/Trans Brake
~3900 Converter

Long Tube Headers...3" exhaust.

4.10 Gears

77pro MAss Air
30lb Injectors
190lb Fuel Pump

And a bunch of the regular stuff, MSD Ignition, CRANE Add on computer, shocks, frame connectors, battery in trunk, pulleys...all that stuff.

01-11-2001, 11:21 PM

Ohh, just a couple of things...I already mentioned.

The lower is off an Explorer and I had it ported to the Heads. Now the interesting thing to note is that the Box upper has yet to be match ported to my 75mm Throttle body and to the ported Lower. So when that gets done it should help some more.

By the way, I might be looking to sell this setup as I am......*GASP*....going to a Carb Setup. No big deal really, I finally had the money to build a very, very radical motor and I am not very crazy about Programming Fuel Injection to get this setup to run.

So I may be posting stuff over in the Classifieds.

8850 · 01-11-2001, 11:35 PM

stanglx347,

Thanks for the info on your mods. Maybe I should have gotten the Down box.

This Comp Cam box is one PITA. First, I had to port the inlet to 70mm. It had a very small hole. The two tb and EGR gaskets were different diameters, both too small. One gasket had to be ground as it had metal in it. Why didn't they make this thing for a 70mm inlet? The six hold down bolts were too short. I bought six more the correct length and now all six won't screw in because of alignment with the holes in my GT40 lower. Also my regulator has interference with the box. Don't know what to do there yet. I will have to drill the holes larger and see if they will screw in. Looks like to be about 1/16 to 1/8 spaced wrong. I know my intake is right because I have used a Hogan box on this same intake when it was a 302 and the bolts fit fine.
And after all this, it is probably not even the problem.

I called Comp Cams today. Their expert told me to retard it 4 degrees from where I am. That would put it at 1/2 degree retarded. It is 3 1/2 degrees advanced right now. He also told me this cam should pull to 6500 rpm with a 347 if degreed properly. He said it is not my intake or headers. He said my engine would make more hp with a better intake and larger headers but the fact that it is falling off the way it is, is an indication of degreeing and not intake or header.

Right now, I don't know what the hell to believe. I have been told fuel, timing, ignition, intake, headers, valve springs. I am not sure who knows what they are talking about.

I'm going to try the box, if I ever get it to fit properly, as I have already paid good money for it. I'm not buying anything else until I have a little more confidence of what is wrong.

This 347 has been one fustrating project from start to finish!

Skyman · 01-12-2001, 04:10 AM

Did you install the cam or what? Is there anyway to check the degree on the cam? I have always wondered how mine was in, because I dont know how it is degreed either.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, playing with timing still, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft.
Best ET 13.2@106mph Needs tuning...

8850 · 01-12-2001, 08:28 AM

Skyler,

I had a pro to install a degree wheel before if closed my engine up. He put two solid lifters directly onto the cam and and indicator on the solids. He really knew what he was doing. I am almost to the assumption that the cam has been ground wrong. Maybe this box will tell me something. Yes, I did install the cam myself but had it degreed. I have the cam and timing chain gear marks straight up, matching, just as the cam came in.

over 40 five oh driver · 01-12-2001, 09:59 AM

8850...sorry to hear of the dilemma with the 347, but I would not chase any ghosts just yet. I would validate the original numbers first on a good dyno with someone who knows Ford stroker motors, combos, etc. Call Steve Drier at Houston Performance...he's just about a 1/2 mile south of the intersection of Tomball freeway and Beltway 8 in NW Houston. He can schedule you some dyno time on their 248C chassis dyno and Michael or Jason do a great job getting you good numbers. Before I did anything at all, I'd confirm the numbers on a good dyno at a reputable shop. They also have a data base their of customer cars and can usually find similar dyno runs with similar mods to make comparisons. They are intimately familiar with the 347 stroker...Highly recommend them!
Also, I had done crunched some numbers a few months ago on mnay combinations using Desktop Dyno 2000 just to get some ideas on which way I was going to go, and with the stroker combos. I noticed HP increase was not huge all other variables being equal, it was the TORQUE figures that skyrocketed!! Check my signature block for all the stuff I run...now with a 347 stroker, the net numbers were as follows:
peak HP @ 5000-5500 was 410 and dropped to 393 and 360 @ 6000 and 6500 RPM respectively. With a 20% loss thru the drivetrain this gave me 328 peak HP at the wheels. For torque, it was a whopping 470 peak at 3500-4000 RPM and with 20% loss netted 376FT-LBS at the wheels. My bet is you are close to these numbers with your combo. Call Houston Performance for some dyno time and professional recommendations. Good luck...Dave in Spring, Texas

------------------
*92' GT, Keith Craft Racing 306 (10.25:1 CR), PRO-M 80mm MAF,65MM TB, Edelbrock U/L intake,
TFS-TW heads milled .056" (52cc chambers), CompCams XE274HR (.555/.565" lift w/1.6 rockers), A-351 adjustable roller rockers, 30# injectors,
Kirban FPR w/external pump, FRPP ceramic coated headers, Bassani X-pipe w/cats, Bassani cat back, Centerforce DF clutch/T.O. bearing...MSD 6AL w/MSD distributor, Steeda Tri axe, aluminum D/S, 3.73's, w/Factory Five U/L control arms. Lakewood 50/50 shocks. Stee

8850 · 01-12-2001, 12:41 PM

over 40 five oh driver,

You have a good idea. Before I start buying anything I need good dyno numbers with torque reading. Thanks! The dyno numbers I got from MTI were only from a graph and I calculated the numbers from the graph. But they do kinda correspond with what my car did at the track.

[This message has been edited by 8850 (edited 01-12-2001).]

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01-10-2001, 09:17 PM	#21
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	i just finished reading the jan 01 issue of MM&FF &they made 475hp@6500 & 422lbs-ft@510 with the trick flow R series intake. it is made for higher rpm's (2500-6500). it improved hp on their motor by 25 hp at 5500rpm over the gt-40 but torque fell 25hp. they had afr185 heads, comp cams xe 292r cam, 10.5 comp, 70mm t/body, 77mm maf &36lb injectors

01-10-2001, 09:23 PM	#22
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	It Was A 347 stroker

01-10-2001, 11:28 PM	#23
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	I just sold my tfs track heat intake and I would say it was an ok intake but I think you can do better for the same amount of money. I also had to cut the throttle cable bracket to make it fit. ------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX Best 1/8 time on motor 7.686 @90.20mph

01-11-2001, 12:32 AM	#24
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	I am thinking that if this box changes the top end power like it should be and I don't lose low end too drastically, then the Victor 5.0 would give me even more top end and get back some of the low end loss that I will probably experience with the box. Sound reasonable? stanglx347, Looks like the box worked pretty good for you. If that is the case I might just keep the box. Just depends on how the low end shows up on the dyno. You got to have torque at your stall speed in order to get a good 60' time. I have a 3200 stall so I got to get torque pretty close to that rpm or my 60' will suffer.

01-11-2001, 12:58 AM	#25
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Hmm, all I can say is that something is drastically wrong with that cam and 347 to be making power soo low. Once you get it all sorted out theres no reason you shouldn't pick up an easy 60-75hp, seeing that you will move up in the RPMS soo much. low 10's maybe? Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, playing with timing still, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft. Best ET 13.2@106mph Needs tuning...

01-11-2001, 11:02 AM	#26
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	Skyman, Low 10s sounds good to me. I really think it is possible too. An engine that is making 220 hp at 6000 rpm and running a 10.71 is pretty good. Of course the way this thing pulls at the lower rpm I must be making over 400 pounds of torque already. If I could move it up it has to improve my et. My engine is a monster when I punch it at 3000 rpm in second gear. First gear is wasted but in second even with slicks on the street I'm all over the road spinning.

01-11-2001, 11:14 PM	#27
stanglx347 Guest Posts: n/a	8850 My combo is as follows: Trick Flow Street Heat heads, mildly ported. 1.72 FMS Rocker Arms Lunati Cam ~550 lift and duration ~240 (I could be a bit off on the cam specs, it has been almost six years since the cam was put in sorry) C-4 w/Trans Brake ~3900 Converter Long Tube Headers...3" exhaust. 4.10 Gears 77pro MAss Air 30lb Injectors 190lb Fuel Pump And a bunch of the regular stuff, MSD Ignition, CRANE Add on computer, shocks, frame connectors, battery in trunk, pulleys...all that stuff.

01-11-2001, 11:21 PM	#28
stanglx347 Guest Posts: n/a	Ohh, just a couple of things...I already mentioned. The lower is off an Explorer and I had it ported to the Heads. Now the interesting thing to note is that the Box upper has yet to be match ported to my 75mm Throttle body and to the ported Lower. So when that gets done it should help some more. By the way, I might be looking to sell this setup as I am......GASP....going to a Carb Setup. No big deal really, I finally had the money to build a very, very radical motor and I am not very crazy about Programming Fuel Injection to get this setup to run. So I may be posting stuff over in the Classifieds.

01-11-2001, 11:35 PM	#29
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	stanglx347, Thanks for the info on your mods. Maybe I should have gotten the Down box. This Comp Cam box is one PITA. First, I had to port the inlet to 70mm. It had a very small hole. The two tb and EGR gaskets were different diameters, both too small. One gasket had to be ground as it had metal in it. Why didn't they make this thing for a 70mm inlet? The six hold down bolts were too short. I bought six more the correct length and now all six won't screw in because of alignment with the holes in my GT40 lower. Also my regulator has interference with the box. Don't know what to do there yet. I will have to drill the holes larger and see if they will screw in. Looks like to be about 1/16 to 1/8 spaced wrong. I know my intake is right because I have used a Hogan box on this same intake when it was a 302 and the bolts fit fine. And after all this, it is probably not even the problem. I called Comp Cams today. Their expert told me to retard it 4 degrees from where I am. That would put it at 1/2 degree retarded. It is 3 1/2 degrees advanced right now. He also told me this cam should pull to 6500 rpm with a 347 if degreed properly. He said it is not my intake or headers. He said my engine would make more hp with a better intake and larger headers but the fact that it is falling off the way it is, is an indication of degreeing and not intake or header. Right now, I don't know what the hell to believe. I have been told fuel, timing, ignition, intake, headers, valve springs. I am not sure who knows what they are talking about. I'm going to try the box, if I ever get it to fit properly, as I have already paid good money for it. I'm not buying anything else until I have a little more confidence of what is wrong. This 347 has been one fustrating project from start to finish!

01-12-2001, 04:10 AM	#30
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Did you install the cam or what? Is there anyway to check the degree on the cam? I have always wondered how mine was in, because I dont know how it is degreed either. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shorty headers, Offroad-Hpipe, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, playing with timing still, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb injectors, K/N, March Crank pulley, MSD6a, 9mm wires and FMS Aluminum driveshaft. Best ET 13.2@106mph Needs tuning...

01-12-2001, 08:28 AM	#31
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	Skyler, I had a pro to install a degree wheel before if closed my engine up. He put two solid lifters directly onto the cam and and indicator on the solids. He really knew what he was doing. I am almost to the assumption that the cam has been ground wrong. Maybe this box will tell me something. Yes, I did install the cam myself but had it degreed. I have the cam and timing chain gear marks straight up, matching, just as the cam came in.

01-12-2001, 09:59 AM	#32
over 40 five oh driver Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 278	8850...sorry to hear of the dilemma with the 347, but I would not chase any ghosts just yet. I would validate the original numbers first on a good dyno with someone who knows Ford stroker motors, combos, etc. Call Steve Drier at Houston Performance...he's just about a 1/2 mile south of the intersection of Tomball freeway and Beltway 8 in NW Houston. He can schedule you some dyno time on their 248C chassis dyno and Michael or Jason do a great job getting you good numbers. Before I did anything at all, I'd confirm the numbers on a good dyno at a reputable shop. They also have a data base their of customer cars and can usually find similar dyno runs with similar mods to make comparisons. They are intimately familiar with the 347 stroker...Highly recommend them! Also, I had done crunched some numbers a few months ago on mnay combinations using Desktop Dyno 2000 just to get some ideas on which way I was going to go, and with the stroker combos. I noticed HP increase was not huge all other variables being equal, it was the TORQUE figures that skyrocketed!! Check my signature block for all the stuff I run...now with a 347 stroker, the net numbers were as follows: peak HP @ 5000-5500 was 410 and dropped to 393 and 360 @ 6000 and 6500 RPM respectively. With a 20% loss thru the drivetrain this gave me 328 peak HP at the wheels. For torque, it was a whopping 470 peak at 3500-4000 RPM and with 20% loss netted 376FT-LBS at the wheels. My bet is you are close to these numbers with your combo. Call Houston Performance for some dyno time and professional recommendations. Good luck...Dave in Spring, Texas ------------------ *92' GT, Keith Craft Racing 306 (10.25:1 CR), PRO-M 80mm MAF,65MM TB, Edelbrock U/L intake, TFS-TW heads milled .056" (52cc chambers), CompCams XE274HR (.555/.565" lift w/1.6 rockers), A-351 adjustable roller rockers, 30# injectors, Kirban FPR w/external pump, FRPP ceramic coated headers, Bassani X-pipe w/cats, Bassani cat back, Centerforce DF clutch/T.O. bearing...MSD 6AL w/MSD distributor, Steeda Tri axe, aluminum D/S, 3.73's, w/Factory Five U/L control arms. Lakewood 50/50 shocks. Stee

01-12-2001, 12:41 PM	#33
8850 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Sugarland, TX USA Posts: 161	over 40 five oh driver, You have a good idea. Before I start buying anything I need good dyno numbers with torque reading. Thanks! The dyno numbers I got from MTI were only from a graph and I calculated the numbers from the graph. But they do kinda correspond with what my car did at the track. [This message has been edited by 8850 (edited 01-12-2001).]