Motor Swap questions 88 cougar to 84 stang - Page 2

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 11:44 PM

The H.O. will only matter if I use the fuel injection right?

gmhatr · 08-19-2004, 12:49 AM

The HO motor has pistons with valve reliefs and the cam has the same firing order as the 351. The non HO has the standard 302 firing order and has flat top pistons. The 88 motor should be a roller motor, HO or not.

5.0 Fiend · 08-19-2004, 01:31 AM

Since that is cleared up, my only question now is, what kind of dist. gear do I have to run for the roller cam? Bronze or steel? Jester was trying to tell me, he said that the bronze "gives", and the steel puts shavings in the oil pan, which do I want?

Ieatcamaros · 08-19-2004, 08:59 AM

Get the bronze dizzy gear. If in doubt, just buy a dist for an 85 GT. The description fits an ho motor. But the intakes will interchange between a ho and non ho motor. I am pretty sure they put the HO in the t birds and cougars. The last one (cougar) I looked at was an HO. BTW, the injectors are in the intake not the heads. If it were me, I would rebuild the original 302. Or buy this 88 motor and put your carb stuff on there with a bronze dist. gear. You will have to change the timing covers and put your fuel pump cam eccentric on there too. Although, this will void the warranty you were talking about. Of course, you could just put a low pressure electric pump on the car too. Is the motor still in the cougar? Listen to it run in the car and forget about the warranty. If that is the route you want to take.

If you are still considering, you can not use a mechanical fuel pump with fuel injection. You will have to find a mustang and get the electric setup out of the tank. And then you will have to run the fuel lines. Plus all the wiring and mounting of differents sensors and stuff that hasn't even been mentioned. I am a carb guy as well. Another reason to say don't swap to fuel injection. You already said you didn't want f.i. in your toy and you aren't too good with wiring.

The firing order for a non ho motor is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Just for kicks.

5.0 Fiend · 08-19-2004, 02:21 PM

Thats exactly the answer I was looking for. i heard the engine run, and It sounds a lot better than the engine I had in the 84, I know I wont screw anything up just by switching manifolds and fuel pumps. The reason I was so screwed up about dist. gear choice was that an article on jason pletcher.com said to use a dist. with a steel gear for the roller cam, and other people were saying to use a bronze one. one last question, what is the cam eccentric? Is it a rod or something that runs off of the cam gear to power the mech. fuel pump? How easy is it to take off the 84 and put on the 88?

88fivepointoh · 08-19-2004, 03:12 PM

To make a long story short, Its not worth the Time or the money at all... To many swaps, to many differences, fix the old motor and you'll be better off. sell the cougar and get a crate motor. either way forget its motor.

5.0 Fiend · 08-19-2004, 03:22 PM

Dont have the money right now for a crate, I need this car to get to work, and it is less expensive and less lost time to just get a decent junkyard motor right now.

88fivepointoh · 08-19-2004, 03:30 PM

have you looked on ebay, plenty of mustang 5.0L motors on there cheep, couple hundred bucks complete.. www.ebay.com

5.0 Fiend · 08-19-2004, 03:43 PM

Just checked, they are all worse looking than the one I have my eyes on, plus they do not come with the accessories, (i.e. starter, alternator, etc.).

jokergotcha · 08-19-2004, 11:05 PM

first things the cam excentric bolts to the front of the cam it drives the fuel pump you need a bronze gear for a roller ho or not its a better motor than you started with just need gaskets a roll pin punch a hammer and a good socket set the intakes are interchangable just remember the torque spec for your intake use the cam in the motor you get youl be happer youll have to use your timing cover for a mech fuel pump to run fi you need a comp from the car the motor came out of so run your intake change your gear and be happy

5.0 Fiend · 08-20-2004, 12:04 AM

What am I looking at to get the timing cover off and take out the cam eccentric? Harmonic balancer puller? (is there a backyard mechanic way to take the balancer off and put it on without a puller)? Will I have to take the timing chain/gear off? I am also going to have to use my 84 timing cover correct?

jokergotcha · 08-21-2004, 09:11 PM

ok you need a puller its about 10 bucks at az for a one time use i spent 100 but i use mine alot as im a diag techand build motors on the side yes youl use your cover when you take your timing cover off youll see the ecentric theres a bolt that holds it and the gear on you cant use your chain theres is ok if not buy a roller chain for the motor you got or that is the car it came out of be sure to write down what it came out of and any work you do if there is ever a prob that will be invaluable so you get the right parts all internals need to match what you bought all externals need to match what you gotgaskets usualy are universal it sounds much worse than it realy is just remember torque specs there a rule not an option

5.0 Fiend · 08-25-2004, 05:59 PM

I may just go with an electronic pump for now, do I have to mount it under the car, or can I put it in the engine compartment? Will I need a regulator? I'm just thinking which would be the easiest route to go for now.

jokergotcha · 08-25-2004, 07:41 PM

you canuse a pump in your engine bay pump as long as it only runs at 7 psi for a holley or 6 for anything else much less itll starve for fuel any more itll flood

08-19-2004, 08:59 AM	#24
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Get the bronze dizzy gear. If in doubt, just buy a dist for an 85 GT. The description fits an ho motor. But the intakes will interchange between a ho and non ho motor. I am pretty sure they put the HO in the t birds and cougars. The last one (cougar) I looked at was an HO. BTW, the injectors are in the intake not the heads. If it were me, I would rebuild the original 302. Or buy this 88 motor and put your carb stuff on there with a bronze dist. gear. You will have to change the timing covers and put your fuel pump cam eccentric on there too. Although, this will void the warranty you were talking about. Of course, you could just put a low pressure electric pump on the car too. Is the motor still in the cougar? Listen to it run in the car and forget about the warranty. If that is the route you want to take. If you are still considering, you can not use a mechanical fuel pump with fuel injection. You will have to find a mustang and get the electric setup out of the tank. And then you will have to run the fuel lines. Plus all the wiring and mounting of differents sensors and stuff that hasn't even been mentioned. I am a carb guy as well. Another reason to say don't swap to fuel injection. You already said you didn't want f.i. in your toy and you aren't too good with wiring. The firing order for a non ho motor is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Just for kicks. __________________ The sig says it all.

08-19-2004, 02:21 PM	#25
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Thats exactly the answer I was looking for. i heard the engine run, and It sounds a lot better than the engine I had in the 84, I know I wont screw anything up just by switching manifolds and fuel pumps. The reason I was so screwed up about dist. gear choice was that an article on jason pletcher.com said to use a dist. with a steel gear for the roller cam, and other people were saying to use a bronze one. one last question, what is the cam eccentric? Is it a rod or something that runs off of the cam gear to power the mech. fuel pump? How easy is it to take off the 84 and put on the 88? Last edited by 5.0 Fiend; 08-19-2004 at 03:20 PM..

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08-18-2004, 11:44 PM	#21
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	The H.O. will only matter if I use the fuel injection right?

08-19-2004, 12:49 AM	#22
gmhatr Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mattoon IL. Posts: 91	The HO motor has pistons with valve reliefs and the cam has the same firing order as the 351. The non HO has the standard 302 firing order and has flat top pistons. The 88 motor should be a roller motor, HO or not.

08-19-2004, 01:31 AM	#23
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Since that is cleared up, my only question now is, what kind of dist. gear do I have to run for the roller cam? Bronze or steel? Jester was trying to tell me, he said that the bronze "gives", and the steel puts shavings in the oil pan, which do I want?

08-19-2004, 03:12 PM	#26
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	To make a long story short, Its not worth the Time or the money at all... To many swaps, to many differences, fix the old motor and you'll be better off. sell the cougar and get a crate motor. either way forget its motor.

08-19-2004, 03:22 PM	#27
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Dont have the money right now for a crate, I need this car to get to work, and it is less expensive and less lost time to just get a decent junkyard motor right now.

08-19-2004, 03:30 PM	#28
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	have you looked on ebay, plenty of mustang 5.0L motors on there cheep, couple hundred bucks complete.. www.ebay.com

08-19-2004, 03:43 PM	#29
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Just checked, they are all worse looking than the one I have my eyes on, plus they do not come with the accessories, (i.e. starter, alternator, etc.).

08-19-2004, 11:05 PM	#30
jokergotcha Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: indy Posts: 9	first things the cam excentric bolts to the front of the cam it drives the fuel pump you need a bronze gear for a roller ho or not its a better motor than you started with just need gaskets a roll pin punch a hammer and a good socket set the intakes are interchangable just remember the torque spec for your intake use the cam in the motor you get youl be happer youll have to use your timing cover for a mech fuel pump to run fi you need a comp from the car the motor came out of so run your intake change your gear and be happy

08-20-2004, 12:04 AM	#31
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	What am I looking at to get the timing cover off and take out the cam eccentric? Harmonic balancer puller? (is there a backyard mechanic way to take the balancer off and put it on without a puller)? Will I have to take the timing chain/gear off? I am also going to have to use my 84 timing cover correct?

08-21-2004, 09:11 PM	#32
jokergotcha Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: indy Posts: 9	ok you need a puller its about 10 bucks at az for a one time use i spent 100 but i use mine alot as im a diag techand build motors on the side yes youl use your cover when you take your timing cover off youll see the ecentric theres a bolt that holds it and the gear on you cant use your chain theres is ok if not buy a roller chain for the motor you got or that is the car it came out of be sure to write down what it came out of and any work you do if there is ever a prob that will be invaluable so you get the right parts all internals need to match what you bought all externals need to match what you gotgaskets usualy are universal it sounds much worse than it realy is just remember torque specs there a rule not an option

08-25-2004, 05:59 PM	#33
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	I may just go with an electronic pump for now, do I have to mount it under the car, or can I put it in the engine compartment? Will I need a regulator? I'm just thinking which would be the easiest route to go for now.

08-25-2004, 07:41 PM	#34
jokergotcha Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: indy Posts: 9	you canuse a pump in your engine bay pump as long as it only runs at 7 psi for a holley or 6 for anything else much less itll starve for fuel any more itll flood