GT40P's or Twisted Wedge?

If you want to do i once and arn't on a budget why don't you get AFR 185's? They outflow the Twisted Wedge heads and will also work good if you eventually want to put a supercharger on your engine. My .02


Steven

[89 Cobra LX]

Originally posted by FivepointOH
I have to disagree....the gt40p's with will run very good on a mild street car. In fact that's the combo i'm planning on running(once i get the cash together). If you mill the heads they will raise the compression too which = more power.

For a mild combo they are very solid. There's no debating it. However, just about every other head will outperform it out of the box.

I highly recommend milling these before installing them.

Those guys on the Corral running low 12s are not the norm.

[93GTDIN]

I will also have to vote for the trick flow heads. Build quality is very high. A big plus for me is the weight. You'll never want to put an iron head on your 5.0 again. Of course I have a convertible and all the weight I can save helps.

I hit the 500 mile break in point for my motor last night, so I punched it for the first time, and i'll be damned if my automatic convertible didn't move like a bat out of hell.

get the tfs tw.

[blown1989saleen]

Originally posted by RPM427
The GT40X heads cost $629 a pair from summit racing. I would link you but thier catalog system prevents a direct link, check it out: http://www.summitracing.com , enter this PN in the simmit part # search: FMS-M-6049-X303

Trickflows cost $1000, not GT-40's

I was mistaking thinking the P's were more expensive. But Summit sells them for $269 a pair.

My friend has the GT40X headed crate engine with the B-cam in his stang (345hp rating from Ford) and it pulls like it has 360 hp.

man i'll tell you right now you aint gonna touch a pair of old GT40 aluminum heads for $629 let alone a set of GT40X's so im not sure WHERE in summit you saw that? maybe thats the price for a SINGLE head but no way is that the price for a pair, besides the fact the trickflows will make more HP and TQ than ANY GT40 head. i say go for the trick flows

[Kamaro Killer]

If you pull that part number that's listed, it's for a single GT-40X head, not a pair.

[Unit 5302]

Okay #1 The Street Warrior or Trophy Stock or whatever the heck they want to call it now cars are running low low 11's at 120mph on stock GT-40P heads at full weight, basically. Yes they're running high compression, and they are limited in choice of cams ect. Those cars are every bit capable of dynoing at 340rwhp. That's over 400hp at the crank. Cams that aren't crazy, and stock GT-40P's with a lot of compression. Take the compression away to milled GT-40P's and they might give up 40hp or so.

TFS TW heads are great. They flow 255cfm, not 320cfm. Fully ported TFS TW's might get 280-290cfm. I can't ever see them hitting 320cfm+. That's maybe where the AFR 205 hangs out. The aluminum head will save you 25lbs. Whoopee doo. That's 0.0025 in the quarter. If you want to be really optimisic, 1/2 a tenth. They also require the use of an improved radiator if you won't want overheating problems.

The GT-40P heads are high velocity, good torque heads which offer significantly more power than stock E7TE's. The crate engine with the B303 or E303 cam is rated at 320hp. So no. A stage 1 GT-40P setup with the extra's is not optimistic at 320hp. Are low 12's with these heads realistic? In a full weight car and normal suspension mods, no. If you lose some weight and get some real good suspension and you have the rest of the combo? Yes.

If you have a car that's dynoing 290hp (240rwhp) with GT-40P's and all the rest with a 103.5 trap, it's broken. That's all there is to it. A stock fox with a killer driver can trap 100mph. So unless you feel like telling me all the mods you made were good for 35hp, I'd have to say something's wrong.

As for the doing things once, that's a great idea. Figure out what you want the car to do, and list the rest of the combo so we can all quit playing guessing games, and pick the best head for you of the two.

Example. You have a GT-40 Intake and a .500 lift 220 duration cam. The GT-40Ps are the better choice.

Example. You have the TFS Street heat and a .540 lift cam with 225 duration. The TFS TW's are the much better choice.

[jimberg]

Since he already has the TFS intake, getting the TFS heads would be a much better match since they are nearly port matched from the factory. I'd talk to TFS and ask them which cam they recommend for their intake and heads. If emissions are an issue, I'd probably stick with the E303.

[Skyman]

My car is pretty much full weight, and full accessory. I know there is a 11 in it on the right day w/ some more tuneing.

Skyler

[HiFlow5 0]

OK I spent the day on the phone talking with tech's of all sorts. One in particular was the Ford racing tech line. He was very helpful. He suggested against both the Trick flow and GT40P heads. He said the 2.02 intake valves on the TFS heads would be too much, and not make enough low end power where I want it, and to go no bigger then 1.94 intake valves. He also said the GT40P's wouldn't be enough for my combo, and I could get more out of a better head. He said the GT40X or the edelbrock performer head would probably be my best bet. They would make good lower rpm power then the TFS, I am able use my pedestal Mt roller rockers and I don't need to get new headers. He also suggested that I swap my 70 mm TB out for a 65 mm unit, and to step up to 4.10 gears. He was very detailed in his explanations and what he said seemed to make a lot of sense.

[tireburner163]

the tech is wrong.

[Unit 5302]

Not to be brutal, but Ford Tech's don't know their head from their ***, and usually when I see people say they talked to a Ford tech they have all the wrong answers. A guy who has a basic understanding of how engines work, and then applies all his theory's to products with no knowledge. They dianosed my friend's backfire as a "loud miss" not a backfire, and it was caused by his spark plug wires, not his fuel injectors. RIIIGGGHHTT.

If you have the TFS intake, the TFS TW heads are better. They won't kill your low end because they don't have primaries that are oversized, and they have excellent flow all around. Port velocity isn't bad with them at all. Ask a lot of people making max power at around 5200-5400rpm. As far as the cam, TFS #1 is better than the E303 in my opinion. With all the problems people have regarding idle surge, and the seemingly great performance of the #1, and cheaper price, I'd probably go with it.

You can go with Edelbrock if you want to. They're good heads, and built with quality. They're no match for the TFS TW heads out of the box for power production or flow, though. They're also more expensive than the TFS heads. It's not hard to find TFS TW heads under $1000. The difference in price between the TFS heads and the Edelbrock will cover rockers. Not to mention you can still sell your old rockers. You'll also need to change pushrods with the TFS TW's.

It's up to you, obviously, but I know I wouldn't choose the Edelbrock over the TFS, and I wouldn't get a set of GT-40x period.

[RPM427]

First off, I hope from now on people will read the entire thread before posting a reply.

--Unit 5302: I know the TFS heads flow 255 stock, BUT you can send them out to get ported to 320+ cfm intake, 235+ ex.
(http://www.bennettracing.com/products/tfstwisted.html)

That is a good thing becuase you can stick with the stock casting now, then if you wanted to build a 351,408, or hi reving 302.347
you can send them out to be ported for $1200 instead of spending $3500 on a head that is comparable.

And for the wieght thing - You will drop 25 lbs PER head. Thats 50 lbs removed that was once hanging off the front of your stang. Not only will it help in acceleration (not much, but every .05 counts), it will aid in wieght transfer which is more important.

I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but its a pet peeve of mine when people don't do thier homework first.

[HORSEMEN RACING]

Okay for more light on the subject here goes.

HiFlo of course the guy is going to tell you to buy Ford parts,he is a Ford tech no brainer there,it is part of his commission.

TFS Twisted Wedge too big??? Tell the other 74,000 customers that,that have bought them,TFS Twisted Wedge is not a big head,TFS Twisted Wedge R,AFR 205,Victor Jr,those are big heads.

Once again depends on your combo HiFlo,I would talk to some engine builders if it was me,Keith Craft,Fox Lake,Anderson Ford Motorsport,Ed Curtis at FlowTech Induction,talk to the guys with the rep and the numbers and results to back it up.

If it was me I would write out a serious plan with pro's/con/s on it and go from there,a plan makes it so much less of headache,and it gives you options to use.

2 last things and I am getting off my soapbox,do not get caught up in this "Bigger is Better" theme that get's a lot of people in trouble,do your homework,talk to the real engine builders,and try to get matched up parts.For example why concern yourself with a 300cfm head at .600 lift when your cam only goes to 490-520? Get the meaning?

And last Skyman the way your car leaves,I would say it definitely has 11 sec potential,skinny wheels up front,to get some un-sprung weight will help it transfer,but looking at your driving style you know what you are doing,nice car by the way,you get the leak fixed?

[jimberg]

HiFlo of course the guy is going to tell you to buy Ford parts,he is a Ford tech no brainer there,it is part of his commission

These guys couldn't possibly work on commission since they don't really sell anything. They're actually pretty cool about answering questions. I spoke to one before doing my project and he was really helpful with all of my stupid questions.

[HORSEMEN RACING]

Very true Jim,but I am sure he is going to highly recommend Ford parts over anything else.

I always wonder whatever happened to the J302 head,and K302 head? Those were good heads made by Ford Motorsport the GT40 head does not even compare to a J302 head.

HiFlo,just make sure you get a good combo,make sure the heads are matched to the cam is what is most important.

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by RPM427
First off, I hope from now on people will read the entire thread before posting a reply.

--Unit 5302: I know the TFS heads flow 255 stock, BUT you can send them out to get ported to 320+ cfm intake, 235+ ex.
(http://www.bennettracing.com/products/tfstwisted.html)

That is a good thing becuase you can stick with the stock casting now, then if you wanted to build a 351,408, or hi reving 302.347
you can send them out to be ported for $1200 instead of spending $3500 on a head that is comparable.

And for the wieght thing - You will drop 25 lbs PER head. Thats 50 lbs removed that was once hanging off the front of your stang. Not only will it help in acceleration (not much, but every .05 counts), it will aid in wieght transfer which is more important.

I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but its a pet peeve of mine when people don't do thier homework first.

Oh you mean like the $600 pair of GT-40x aluminums? Is that what's called doing your homework? Those 320cfm+ heads are not just ported. They have CNC work, custom valves, and the whole works thrown at them. That is not a "port" job. The stage 3 port is gonna get you about 290-300cfm intake, and 220-230cfm exhaust.

I'm sure you've done a lot of research on the GT-40x heads? Maybe you notice an extreme deficiency in flow somewhere? Called the exhaust side with less than 70% of intake flow? Not only that, but they don't flow much more than a stage 1 GT-40P head intake wise, and less than the stage 1 GT-40P head on exhaust. We're talking 10cfm more intake, and about 10cfm less exhaust. For only $600 more.

My only experience with Ford tech people is they don't know their products real well.

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by RPM427
What would be the reasoning be to buy the GT40P's over the GT40X heads? The X's are aluminum, wiegh 25 lbs less each, don't require special headers, flow a lot better, and only cost about $100 more then the P's. if you are buget minded, then why not the GT40X heads??

Umm...show me where I can buy TURBO SWIRL ALUMINUM HEADS for that price, and I'll order tonight. I denoted the heads in CAPS so you could be sure you were talking about the correct heads...cheapest I've seen them around is ~$1050. Looks like someone misread the pricing in the Scummit catalog

[89 Cobra LX]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
The GT-40P heads are high velocity, good torque heads which offer significantly more power than stock E7TE's. The crate engine with the B303 or E303 cam is rated at 320hp. So no. A stage 1 GT-40P setup with the extra's is not optimistic at 320hp. Are low 12's with these heads realistic? In a full weight car and normal suspension mods, no. If you lose some weight and get some real good suspension and you have the rest of the combo? Yes.

If you have a car that's dynoing 290hp (240rwhp) with GT-40P's and all the rest with a 103.5 trap, it's broken. That's all there is to it. A stock fox with a killer driver can trap 100mph. So unless you feel like telling me all the mods you made were good for 35hp, I'd have to say something's wrong.

The iron-headed gt-40 crate 302 was rated at 280hp.

The aluminum-headed gt-40 crate 302 was rated at 320hp.

That is directly from Ford SVO. Get it right. I've mentioned it to you before.

My car is not "broken" and I'm certainly not a killer driver..... but I can hold my own. If you knew anything about racing at the track other than what you read on the internet you'd know that 103.5 trap is about right for 290 hp. Since you like to read so much on the net about racing take a look at the graph on the attached link. A 3200lb car needs 290hp to hit 105mph trap speeds. Looks about right to me considering my car weighs in around 3250 with me in it and I was shifting with the stock tach (we all know how accurate they are).

http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/combos/pwrcombo.htm

Quit reading the magazines articles and internet stories about all of these fantastic times being achieved by these killer drivers. Spend some time at the track and talk with people there about the results they're acheiving with their combos. The track is the real-world and you have yet to experience it.

[tireburner163]

89 Cobra LX He's talking about the GT-40P crate motor from Central Coast Mustang....It is rated at 320hp.

As for the track times, I saw a car with ported GT-40P's, a Cobra, a cam(not sure what type), and the bolt ons pull a 12.6 a few weeks ago.

[89 Cobra LX]

Originally posted by tireburner163
89 Cobra LX He's talking about the GT-40P crate motor from Central Coast Mustang....It is rated at 320hp.

As for the track times, I saw a car with ported GT-40P's, a Cobra, a cam(not sure what type), and the bolt ons pull a 12.6 a few weeks ago.

I know what CCM's add claims. Adds for underdrive pulleys claim an increase of 15-20hp. Don't believe what the manufacturers claim. They're after your dollar. How would CCM be able to find 40 hp over Ford SVO with virtually the exact same parts (if it seems to good to be true it probably is)?

I'm curious what the MPH was for for the guy you saw run that 12.6. I'd love to be in the 12s, but without slicks I'm stuck in the 13s. Damn 2.1 to 2.2 60 foots are killing me.