351W or 460 ?

[QuantumMotorsports]

Okay, I'm trying to decide, I've got an 84 4 cyl hatch that's stipped down to almost nothing. It's either getting a 460 or a 351W. Which one should I get? Tell me all of your thoughts and feelings. I am having trouble seeing the point in going with a 460 because I'm not going for an all out drag car, I don't want to tub it yet, I don't even really want to have put a cage in it yet either (although eventually I will probably) Anyway, what do you guys think?
Here are some picks of the car. This was before it was stipped down so there are still seats and stuff in it. It's going to get an LX spoiler and 87 LX taillights. Keeping the front end the way it is (stock 84) And eventually i'll paint it. if you want, check out http://students.ou.edu/B/Michael.C.Black-1/ for some more stuff about the car.



Tell me what you think!!! Thanks.

[lovinspeed01]

Go with the 351W. Lighter, easier and cheaper to put in then a 460

[Dark Knight]

460!!..
or bigger.. a 514 stroker kit is about the same price as a 408 kit for a 351
http://fordifiedracing.homestead.com/bigblockfox.html

if you want it to handle good too, get a 347 stroker..

[VeNuM]

351 stroked out to a 408. With a 460 you can't even run power brakes anymore, engine is too wide. 351 swap parts are readily available too. Parts are also cheaper and more available. Just my $.02 ~Brian

[VeNuM]

double post

[Fox Body]

Originally posted by lovinspeed01
Go with the 351W. Lighter, easier and cheaper to put in then a 460

That's the same reason I went with the 351W instead of the 460. I really considered a 460 or 429 b4 I started building the '79. In the end, I finally concluded with a 351W. Obviously, that is what I suggest for you. I think you'll be happier in the end with the 5.8. Biggest doesn't always equate to best.

[tireburner163]

I'd for sure go with a 351W. Parts are way cheaper and easier to find.

P.S. Long time no see. What happened to da Couger?

[Coupe Devil]

Aww com on guys.. Easier, Cheaper ( I can understand that point a little ) but yes you can run power brakes.... Dollar for Dollar yo uwill not make the same power with any n/a small block as you will with a big block. Buy a Old thunderbird with a factory 365 horse dove headed 460 in it. Slap in a factory cobra jet ca, Aluminum intake and headers and you've got 450 horse for less than $1000 bucks... Tell me where you can build a 408 to make that power for that money. Dont get me wrong here' im not trying to bad mouth you guys in any way shape or form, Heck Im runnin a small block now. Just because I wrecked my daily driver ( 90 lx 5.0 ) car. .If I had my choice I would have a big block any day of the week. I know more about the 460's than I do the small blocks. Im partial, but Im tellin ya you can drive a 460 car on teh road every day of the week and have hella fun with it to..

Bradley

[lovinspeed01]

I don't want to argue; but because I live in Canada it is way to much money to put a 460 in a mustang( believe me I have tried).

To get the motor mounts its $375.00Canadian
Headers are $550.00
Oil Pan used with oil pump is $150.00
And that is just to get the motor in, then with performance parts.

I don't know how it is in the states, but were I live it is hell of alot cheaper to put in a 351w. Sure a big block does have alot of torque, but look at the weight of the beast(it like a boat anchor). If you choose the 460 it better be a straight line performer.

Good Luck whatever you choose

[QuantumMotorsports]

Thanks a bunch guys for the suggestions. The cougar I had is wrecked. Yeah, it was my fault so I'll just leave that alone. Anyway, I bought it back from the insurance company and sold it for a pretty penny. So I've got some money to build up this 84. So far, I think what I want to do is put in an 8.8 rear, and either a 351W and T5 (or tremec maybe) or 460 (by the way, what manual trannies will bolt up to a 460?) and then maybe put a cage in it and take it to the strip and tear it up. I was thinking I could have a 12 second car pretty easily cause it's stipped down like a mutha. I'll get some pics of the interior, but it really is just sheet metal. Pulled the sound deadening rubber also. Anyway, I'm going to a swap meet here in a couple days, so i guess if I see an engine there that catches my eye, I'll go with that. As far as the whole 460 or 351W deal, I don't care about power brakes, and I could even deal with having to buy or fabricate some engine mounts, but the weight and the cost of the parts for the 460 really worries me. I mean I could get a cheap 460 pretty quick, but it'd be out of a truck or something and wouldn't make must power. I figure I'd have to spend a bit to make the 460 make the power it should. I think the 351W would be fairly easy to make the power it should, even though it's not near what the 460 could make. At least, that's what I figure. Anyway, thanks for the help again guys.

[lovinspeed01]

For a manual transmission you can get a big block pattern top loader four speed or Richmond's five or six speeds( six speed is the overdrive transmission).

If I were to go with the 460 swap I would choose the C6 automatic, because their is a billion of them out their. And they can take all the power you can throw at it.

Good Luck

[86GT]

Where I live, there's three guys with 460's in their cars. The swaps didn't cost too much money. No more than a 351 swap would. You just have to know where to find parts.

That said, 460, all the way. Trust me, a 351 would need heads, cam, intake plus a stroker to feel close to a 460. That's why the truism is "There's no replacement for displacement." Weigh what you need to get for either swap, including motors and work out a budget, then do what ever is the easiest in that sense. Not in what will fit and what won't because both will fit, both will keep the brakes, etc... Hope that helps.

[Coupe Devil]

Originally posted by QuantumMotorsports
I mean I could get a cheap 460 pretty quick, but it'd be out of a truck or something and wouldn't make must power. I figure I'd have to spend a bit to make the 460 make the power it should.

A truck motor would be more desireable. They have beter rods that i've seen personally go to over 500 horse and turn over 7500 many many many many times. In the pulling truck teams I work with there are several turcks runnin the factory truck rods and having great luck out of them. They are also runnin factory cranks ( not even steel cranks, Just cast ) and turning them to over 8500 most every pass down the track. So really the only money you would be out would be for heads, intake and cam. Or you could buy a factory efi 460 out of a truck. The heads on those motors flow better than any out of hte box aftermarket cast or aluminum head. Now a ported aftermarket head will obviosly flow more but not box stock. Now I bet your wondering about the intake for the efi motored heads.. Ahh Dont fret. Edelbrock makes a carb intake to put onto a motor with those heads PROBLEM SOLVED . that is just my opinion on it all though, you do what you want. I m just trying to let you see its not as costly as most people think. Cheap power is cubic inches plain and simple.

Bradley

[Dark Knight]

Lee Senior, Pennsylvania
1985 7.5L GT
71 460, D0VE heads, A/C, PS, PB, CC
11.84 @ 114mph, 7.54 @ 91 mph, N/A

460 with power brakes in a fox

and a mild engine too.. AND.. the standard 2 bolt 460 block is good for 600HP..

[Dark Knight]

you might also talk to Kidott at stangnet... he has a 429 in his car..

[tarmon8r]

my 83 393 W went 7.50's at 101 mph in the 1/8 th, off the trailer, first pass, with alot left in it. Still have the 7.5 rear and needs a tranny and a posi and a good carb. I babied it out of the hole. So there are some hard numbers for you to ponder. Your 460 mustang will be so unbalanced (i.e. nose heavy), all of the weight will be over your front tires, not necessary the best thing, and it will handle like a pig.

[lovinspeed01]

I hope this is usefull in helping you decide.


429

Horsepower

320@4400rpm(2v)
345@4600rpm(4v)
360@5800rpm(cj)
370@5400rpm(cj)
375@5600rpm(scj)
(1969-71)
208@4400rpm(4v)
(1972-sae net)
202@4400rpm(4v)
(1973-sae net)


Torque

450@2200rpm(2v)
460@2800rpm(4v)
476@2800rpm(cj)
450@3400rpm(cj)
450@3400rpm(scj)
(1969-71)
322@2600rpm(4v)
(1972-73 sae net)


460

Horsepower

224@4400rpm(4v)


Torque

357@2800rpm


351W

Horsepower

138@3200rpm(2v)
(1980 sae net)
165@3200rpm(vv)
(1981 sae net)
140@3400rpm(2v)
(1982-83 sae net)
180@3600rpm(vv)
(1984-92 sae net)
200@3800rpm(efi)
(1993-98 sae net)
240@4200rpm(efi)
(1993-96 lightning)

Torque

355@2600rpm(2v)
385@3200rpm(4v)
(1969-70)
350@2600rpm(2v)
(1971)
276@2000rpm(2v)
(1972 sae net)
246@2400rpm(2v)
(1973 sae net)
275@2200rpm(2v)
(1974sae net)
255@2200rpm(2v)
(1975-76 sae net)
266@2000rpm(2v)
(1977 sae net)
275@2200rpm(2v)
(1978-79 sae net)
286@1400rpm(vv)
260@2200rpm(2v)
(1980 sae net)
270@1800rpm(vv)
(1981 sae net)
265@2000rpm(2v)
(1982-83 sae net)
285@2400rpm(2v)
(1984-92 sae net)
310@2800rpm(efi)
(1993-98 sae net)
340@3200rpm(efi)
(1993-96 lightning)

These numbers are for a stock engine from the factory

[Dark Knight]

for the amount of money you have in those vic jr heads, you can build a 460 with the same power level.. and you wont have to spin it over 6000 rpm..

and a tubbed drag car isnt going to handle good anyway...

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

Id go 351W. You said you didnt want an all out drag car and the only reason i can see with putting a 460 in it would be for a drag car. That heavy 460 would make the car handle like crap IMO

[bottlebaby91]

I would go with a 460. There is no replacement for displacemant. The added weight will be made up for. I just happen to have seen a 460 for sale.