Check this combo, any thoughts please?

[Capri306]

Okay guys, the speed bug has bitten, and won't let go. Here's what I'm planning on buying in the next month or so (for the '87 Notchback):

E303 cam, 1.7 roller rockers, Windsor Jr. heads, Cobra intake, 65mm TB, enlarging MAF to 61mm, new FRPP 19lb/hr injectors, hardened pushrods & guideplates (maybe), BBK full length headers & off-road H-pipe, BBK 190lph fuel pump, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, BBK fuel pressure gauge, FRPP aluminum driveshaft, Factory Five control arms, and a higher stall converter (mebbe 2400).

I already have 3.73 traction-lok, MAF conversion, K&N conical filter, Flowmaster exhaust, and B&M shift kit.

Okay, that's the majority of it. My questions are, what stall could I go with and still have it driveable (peak torque on E303 is @ 2500)? Will I run okay with 19lb/hr injectors? If not, 24lb/hr and/or a new MAF sensor? Would overboring the stock MAF be okay? Hehe, how's this beast gonna idle?

Please keep in mind I'm kind of going in two different directions at the same time with this project: has to be a reliable daily driver, but get at least into the lower 13's (12's would be awesome!). But with EEC-IV, I've seen it done with no problems. I need some fuel economy (currently getting a little more than 20mpg), but I want it to haul balls when I go to WOT, know what I mean? Thanks!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch <--- New Timeslips

[This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 01-16-2001).]

[84_GT350]

Sounds pretty good...but here's what I'd change. First, the cam. All of Ford's 303 series cams are good, but many cam manufacturers like Comp Cams make cams that will overpower them. Comp Cams in particular makes some great Xtreme Energy grinds. I'm very happy with mine. Second, I'd go with a slightly more hardcore intake if you're shooting for low 13s. Holley's SysteMax intakes are kick @ss even if they are a tad pricey. The Ford GT-40 setups are good too. The Windsor Jrs are good for the money, but a little more power could be had by a little more head (no pun intended ). As for a stall, I'd go with about a 2600rpm lockup converter.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

[NO SLO PK]

More injector and pump will probably be needed. Don't waste your hard earned money by installing 19s. The 24s would definitely work, but if you ever plan on a blower, I'd suggest stepping up to 30s instead. Also, the 190 pump would certainly work, but stepping up to a 255 should also be okay.

If you're serious about the Windsor Jrs., I'd get them ported, especially the exhaust side.

1.7 rockers may be a little much ratio (?)

Good Luck!

------------------
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[93CobraR]

Which pistons are you going to be running? I don't think you will have enough clearance with the 1.7's and the E303, I was going to run that but found out that I wouldn't have enough, so I looked at the B but never got it.

------------------
87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's,GT-40 heads,long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's.
Best time 13.012
Best MPH 104
Best 60' 1.816

Visit my site at:
http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

[LX XLR8R]

hey why try making your own new combo..just get a tried and true one that someone allready took the gueswork out for you..id suggest my combo but you could go cobra instead of GT-40 to save a few buck

so go cobra intake, 6037 heads, long tubes, XE 274 cam(you might wanna go smaller but def get an XE series cam)with a 65mm tb(70mm if you get the 274 or bigger)..19#inj is good enuff but a waste of money if you buy them new..and if you go 24# then get a at least a 70mm mass air to go with it..ok this is good for low 12's with traction

now if you wanna go extreme budget then this is tried and true and i got some good #'s to go with it on my old car
3.73, 6037 heads(stock), e-303(or b, ill find out) w/ 1.7rr..full exhaust w/ headers..we still had the stock intake, tb, mass air, injectors, etc...what we ran was pretty good..13.3@105 on bald all seasons(car also had no traction devises)..easy 12's with slicks..so for less than 2k you could have a very streetable high 12 sec car with good gas milage

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

[fastang]

I have the B cam with 1.7's and the clearance is fine, Mine even worked with milled heads. Dont just bore out your MAF get a new one. The position of the sensor tube on a larger housing has to sit against the wall and its bevel cut like your factory exh tip are. The stock maf tube sits out from the housing, thats why it has that restrictive backing plate. I tried cutting and boring mine out and Im telling you its NOT worth the effort and it wont work right. If your going to spend the money for heads just save an extra 300 bones and get a good set, your only going to want to do that once so why not wait and get the better heads?

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

[Skankin]

First, I'd use the rocker ratio that the cam was designed for. The crane 2030/2031 cam kits are a great budget pick ($210 inc. springs). The split duration favouring the exhaust is good (although it may not be necessary with the off-road H-pipe)... the wider lobe separation angle gives you a broader torque band, moderate duration keeps cylinder pressure up, and the added lift gives you some good flow.
For a few more $$$ a mild comp cam extreme grind would be great.

Peak torque on a stock mustang is around 3200 RPM, that combo will probably put the peak around 4000 RPM.

I'm not a fan of FMS cams... not very agressive (long advertised durations, not enough lift).

You can get GT40P/explorer heads bare for $200. These have smaller ports/runners than the windsors... so they don't have as much potential, but they have AWESOME flow velocity, and provide GREAT low end. With the rest of the combo, they should outperform the windsors all the way up to the rev limit (on a 351, they start to loose out around 5500RPM).

Do a search, there's some great info on these heads.

Cheap valves for $75, or manley race flows for $195. You could do a bowl blend, exhaust runner cleanup, valve job & milling, and still be cheaper than the windsors (and perform better).

It seems like you wanna keep your low end... but if you wanted to trade off a bit for the top end, the Holley & edelbrock kits would take any guesswork out.

The stock MAF pegs the max voltage at around 330HP... so the 19# injectors and calibration will be alright... but the 55mm MAF is a little restrictive (5-10HP loss), so a bigger MAF is a good idea. I got a 24# calibrated 75mm Pro-M bullet, and use my 19# injectors at 61psi (=24#)... ya, I'm cheap.

Trick flow 1pc chromoly hardened pushrods are about $75 at summit... great price.

Also, the engine is only about 30% efficient, so even a modest HP increase means A LOT more heat.

I highly recommend the www.stewartcomponents.com water pump. An SN95 or MarkVIII electric fan is great... keeps you cool at idle, and frees up about 20HP.

Forget the factory 5 control arms, unless it's just a drag strip car. Get some good lowers, and keep the stock uppers... or spend some more and do a torque arm & panhard bar or 5 link. The auto will certainly let you get away with less (you don't get the abrupt torque transfer to the chassis like when you pop a clutch).... you should have subframe connectors though.



------------------
'89.5 5L LX, hatch, Medium Canyon Red, 155K Km (No winters), 5sp, 3.08, GT interior, a/c, Alpine CD, K/N, Crane PS91, Walbro 190 LPH, March Pulleys, Mr. Gasket 180 therm (HP balanced), 3 core rad, MarkVIII fan, Variflow controller, Polygraphite front bushings, FMS-5300B springs, 6 KYB's, 73mm Calipers, Maximum Motorsport 4pt chassis brace, Western Motorsport Racing's Sub-frame connectors. Re-ringed bottom end, conv. motor mounts, melling oil pump, FMS-C50 waterpump, GT40P heads (blended, polli

This combo sounds good, but since you are buying new injectors I would buy 24 pounders. Also I would get a looser converter than that. You could go up to a 3500 (I think you should get a stall in the 2800-3200 range) stall with a good quality trans cooler and a 4.10 gear. I suggest getting a lock-up converter too if you can fork over the extra cash.

I have the F cam and mine idles great. You just have to turn the idle up a bit. I still get good gas milage and have a slew of mods. I would also suggest a new maf (pro-m makes the best). Go with 1.6 roller rockers with the E cam. This cam works great with auto cars (less duration).

OR, you can get a 2500 stall, a 75 shot of nitrous, a cobra intake, 65mm tb, 1.7 rr, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, an electric fan, headers and h-pipe, a new maf, 24# inj, and a new bigger fuel pump 190lph). This should put you where you want to be E.T. wise and still maintain factory driveability. My car still has great driveability, but nitrous is the easiest and cheapest way to go fast.

------------------
88GT stock shortblock, ported GT-40 iron heads, Edlebrock Performer intake, 24# inj, Pro-M 75mm Bullet MAM, 3.73, hurst short throw, F-303, electric fan, alum rad, FMS HD clutch, R134a ac conversion, 70mm TB , and some other stuff I probably forgot, best run so far on ET streets is 13.02@106 with a 1.87 60ft Only been to the track once still alot more tuning to do and need more driving experience.(Full body weight GT, full tank of gas, and sway bars connected, gonna disconnect sway bars and dip

[This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 01-16-2001).]

[1989GT]

Well this combo has worked well for me. It's in the sig. All with no port work. So you could do alittle clean up and get some more out of it. Which is what I'm getting ready to do. Nice low end but it pulls to the rev limiter. Great daily driver combo IMO.

------------------
89GT,T-5Z, D.S.S. 306 shortblock w\main support, B-303 cam, Cobra intake, GT40P heads, 1.72rr, MAC "P" headers, MAC off-road H-Pipe, MAC true-fit w\tips, 373's...and the list goes on!
Throttle Junkie Powered by Ford!
12.824 @ 107.05 MPH

[Capri306]

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I really appreciate it!

Ok, I didn't say so earlier, but I wanna keep it all naturally aspirated. The other thing about the 1.7's and the E303: that's so I get the big lift, yet not an arseload of duration to keep the low end torque (also why I decided on Windsor Jr.'s & full lengths). That really gets me thinking of looking at another brand of cam, I've heard pretty good things about Crane from most of y'all.

Another thing: Money is no object, but I don't wanna waste it, another reason for the Windsor Jr.'s. They seem to be almost identical to Edelbrock Performers, except they're iron. Aluminum is tempting, but for how often I change plugs and for extra saftey, c/i is my way to go.

The valve clearance shouldn't be an issue. If I go E303 and use 1.7's, I'll have a lift of 0.529". World Castings claims the Windsors can go up to 0.560", but I think that's just the limit of the valve springs??? It was the '86 5.0's that had the clearance issue if I remember correctly (seems to be a lot of problems with stock '86 equipment, no?). I'll have to look into it a little more. Any ideas on rockers for those bad boys? Needs to be 7/16" stud mount, I believe.

I'm going with a Cobra intake for three reasons: I don't have the patience to wait for the MAC to come out, I've heard of absolutely no flow problems with Cobras, and they eliminate the EGR spacer.

fastang was right, I was just going to be a cheap-arse and overbore the stock MAF. Hehehe. Yeah, I'll probably get a 70mm Pro-M. The question is about the injectors, though. Would the listed combo require it? No wait, lemme rephrase that. Would it be "tuned" properly with larger injectors? The 19 pounders are good to 320 HP, theoretically. I just want it to be able to keep the correct a/f ratio all the time. I wouldn't mind cranking the fuel pressure up to, say, 45 pounds or so, but I want the correct way of doing this. Like I said before, I wanna do it right the first time and not spend a fortune on parts I didn't need. 24 pounders are tempting, yes I'm considering them, but I'm also pondering whether it's the right way to go.

Thanks a lot for the help so far, everybody. PLEASE keep it coming!!!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch <--- New Timeslips

[This message has been edited by Capri306 (edited 01-17-2001).]

[fordgasm]

I would do (4) things different:

1) I would go with an aluminum head. The weight savings alone is worth it, and the alum dissapates the heat better, helping combat detonation.

2) I would go with 1.6 rockers and a cam that will work well with them, a proven custom cam from Bennett.

3) 24 lb/hr injectors. I ran a similiar set up with 19 lb injectors and had to run excessive fuel pressure to make good HP. The injectors could not with stand the abuse and a fuel wash problem occurred, which caused damage to crank bearings, pistons, rings and a couple of rods. When I rebuilt it I went with the 24 lb injectors and ran better ET's with less fuel pressure.

4) 70mm Pro-M mass air meter. As long as you are changing injectors it would be a good time to upgrade the mass air which would be calibrated for the 24 lb injectors.

Good luck and let us know what you decide...

------------------
fordgasm
CLICK HERE to see my 87 GT

[evilstang]

Do you have a cowl hood? If so consider an explorer intake.

[Mach 1]

go with 24 lb injectors, not an absolute, but a good idea.

forget the e-cam, sucks with automatic, to narrow powerband

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

[Josh91]

I would do the following:

1) If you are going to get new injectors, you might as well get 24#ers.
2) Get a Pro-M MAF
3) Forget the E303. My Crane 2031 works great and is made for 1.7's. Its numbers are 214/220 duration and 513/529 lift.
4) Get a stall anywhere between 2400-3200. If it is a daily driver, maybe lower in the range.
5) You may want to consider some different control arms. Maybe Megabyte Jr's?

------------------
1991 Mustang GT - Cobra Intake, FMS 65mm TB, C&L 73mm MAF, GT-40P heads, Crane 2031 cam, Crane 1.7rr, Built AOD, Art Carr 2400 non-lockup converter, Transgo shift kit, BBK chrome cold air, FMS 'P' headers, Pacesetter off-road H, BBK aluminum pulleys, 2-C Flows w/ dumps, 4.10's, Steeda STB, for now...

The Original GT-40P Tech Page