Stang_ROTY project status

Stang_ROTY · 08-12-2001, 11:48 AM

My cooling prolem seems to be fixed so I took the car for it's first real road test to the dragstrip (about 50 miles) and I noticed a of things.
1) The engine has 50 miles on it and everytime a start it it's puffs smoke out the tailpipes and the inside of my tips are black. My Uncle followed me and he noticed it puffing smoke at WOT. (I still haven't taken the engine above 4500 RPM's.) How long does it take to break a new engine in?
2) That C4 tranny is HOT!! I can't believe that generates that much heat. I better get a gauge to read the trans temp.
3) I don't like the fact that my oil pressure drops under 50 psi at idle. Is that normal?
4) The temp. gauge never went above 195 but I found some foam when I opened the rad. cap.

------------------
Finally DONE!!
93 GT, 393 stroker w/ Edlebrock Performer heads and EFI, 30lb injectors, Dynamic Roller Mite C4, 8 pt cage, Sothside Machine bars & Sub-frames, 3.73's, '69 351W block w/SCAT crank.

red82gt · 08-12-2001, 02:44 PM

Don't fret about the oil pressure, especially at idle, as long as it goes up when you get to 2000rpms you're fine.

Do you have a tranny cooler? If not it's cheap insurance, lots of kits out there.

What color is the smoke it's puffing? If it's black then it's rich at WOT, this will probably get better as you drive the car more and the computer adapts.

As for break-in, change the oil when you've got about 150 miles on it, then keep it under 4000 until about the 1000-1500 mile mark, then change the oil again and you'll be ready to rock.

Stang_ROTY · 08-13-2001, 08:13 AM

The smoke is like a white color with blue tint to it. Looks like oil to me.

juiceman · 08-13-2001, 04:30 PM

your problems are normal. the only thing to watch is the smoke. it only takes a few miles to break in the motor. assuming you did it properly. look for leaks and check the plugs for oil. unless the machine shop did a poor job on the motor you should not have to worry about the rings. glad to hear that the car is running cool now, what did you do?

Stang_ROTY · 08-13-2001, 05:45 PM

All I had to do was take the black Magic fan out and replace it with a reverse rotation fan and the OEM shroud. It really helped! Hey, I think I found my oil burning problem. I think it's in the PCV valve. I was never given the baffle that goes under the lower manifold and my PCV valve is sending oil straight into my upper plenum. I checked the vac. line and it's got oil in it. Is there any way I can re-rout the PCV vac. system or does it have to go into manifold vac??

PKRWUD · 08-13-2001, 10:34 PM

It has to go into manifold vacuum. And, you keep forgetting to mention the CAP! You don't seem to realize that the new radiator cap played a HUGE role in correcting your overheating problem. Trust me. I got you out of it, right? Trust me.

You need the baffle and a filter underneath you PCV val;ve, otherwise you're just going to foul out plugs and hamper your break in.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

Stang_ROTY · 08-14-2001, 06:50 AM

The cap helped too. He's correct. It's such a simple part that I forget to mention it all the time. I guess this means i have to take off the lower manifold, no way around it. That baffle needs to be there.

PrplMonster · 08-14-2001, 08:51 AM

My intake(Performer) has a small baffle plate underneath the PCV valve opening, is this the baffle your talking about..? If so, my intake still sucks oil and the Edelbrock Tech said it's normal for a lil oil in the intake..

thanx
.dave

Stang_ROTY · 08-14-2001, 11:09 AM

Really? Hmmm. That's the baffle I'm talking about. Does it suck a little oil or enough to actually form a puddle (if I take the plenum cover off where it says "Edelbrock", I actually see a puddle of oil)? If you have a lot of oil like I do than maybe that's not my problem.

juiceman · 08-14-2001, 03:43 PM

you can definately reroute your pvc system. you can also get rid of it if you want. it is reccomended for alot of street driving though. there are so many ways to make an evac. sys. you can use any port that has vac. nothing on a race car has to be done only one way. dont be afraid to experiment.

Stang_ROTY · 08-14-2001, 05:45 PM

I just want to prevent the oil from entering my intake without taking the engine apart. I understand that even stock 5.0's burn some oil but I think I am really pushing it when oil starts to seep through the gasket on the upper plenum cove and drops onto my intake runners. Something ain't right. My engine builder is coming over tonight to help me re-route the PCV system. I'm really not concerned with passing emissions b/c without the smog pump I don't think it would pass. I just don't want to hinder my break in my allowing oil to burn with the gas. Plus, it must be taking away HP too.

PKRWUD · 08-14-2001, 06:27 PM

First, let me clarify something. The term "manifold vacuum" means unrestricted vacuum that is taken from anywhere below the throttle plate(s). It designates the source of the vacuum, not where the vacuum hose goes to. Your power brake booster has manifold vacuum applied to it. So does your fuel pressure regulator, etc. Your PCV valve requires manifold vacuum to re-route the blow-by back into the combustion chamber. Blow by gasses carry with them traces of oil, which is unavoidable, but, to lessen the amount of oil entering the intake, manufacturers place a baffle and a filter in the PCV route. That is why valve covers have a baffle underneath the breathers, and why all the carburetor equipped factory air cleaners had that funny foam wedge stuck to the inside of the air cleaner where the PCV hose entered. Ford places the baffle below their choice of locations for the PCV valve, the rear of the intake manifold, and they also insert a filter in there. Those two items, when clean, prevent 99% of the oil from reaching the intake. Do you have other options? Of course you do. You can block off the factory location and install a PCV valve into a valve cover breather hole, using a proper sized grommet. Make sure you insert a foam filter underneath the valve first. As long as there is a baffle and a filter, you should be fine. There are other ways to get rid of the blow-by as well, including having it routed directly into the exhaust, but that should never be used on a street driven vehicle. Talk to your mechanic about installing a PCV valve in the valve cover, but don't forget the baffle and the filter, otherwise you'll just be sucking oil into your intake.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

Stang_ROTY · 08-14-2001, 08:47 PM

Thanks again Chris. Yet again you are right on the money. My engine builder came over tonight and I think I was right about the engine smoking due to the PCV vac. line routing. Here's what happened.

I took off the plenum cover wiped a large puddle of oil from the inside of the plenum, then I blocked off the PCV valve vac. hose with a screw, and started her. Hardly any smoke whatsoever. He took the oil cap off the spout and said "If the rings didn't seat correct smoke would blow out of this spout" while at idle and WOT. There was no smoke pouring out. That's good right? Anyway, the next step is exactly what you said. Re-routing the PCV valve. I'll know for sure what the deal is with the oil burning tomarrow morning. Thanks again Chris. You're the man.

Five0 · 08-14-2001, 10:09 PM

Hey, on a new motor with less than 30 miles on it would the motor still blow smoke out of it and if so how long does it take for the rings to seal?
I asked this question in another post but got no reply.
The rings are pro moly rings and it is on a 347.
I have noticed smoke coming out of the engine compartment when I gave it a little gas and I only did it once. I know I have a leak in the heater core because I have green antifreeze coming out of the heater/ac core that drains out of the firewall and it is dripping on the headers and I am not sure if the smoke was from that or something else.

------------------
James Cox
nochevy@hotmail.com
1991 Mustang LX
12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

MiracleMax · 08-14-2001, 11:50 PM

Hmmm... I've been thinking about running my PCV from the valve cover to the plenum since the Vic 5.0 intake doesn't have any provision for in it in the stock location.

As for the Performer oil problem, maybe a baffle/catch routed in between the pcv and the plenum?

PKRWUD · 08-15-2001, 01:51 AM

Five0-
Your rings should have seated by now. After the initial 20 minutes @ 2000 rpm's, a new engine should be subjected to several short, hard bursts of loaded acceleration in order to properly seat the rings. If you totally granny it, they'll never seal. In other words, hit it hard from a dead stop for 4 or 5 seconds, several times. This should seat the rings.

Purple dude-
Do you have a filter installed underneath the PCV valve, above the baffle? If not, get one. If so, change it to a clean one. This should greatly reduce your oil consumption.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

PKRWUD · 08-15-2001, 01:54 AM

Five0-
Your rings should have seated by now. After the initial 20 minutes @ 2000 rpm's, a new engine should be subjected to several short, hard bursts of loaded acceleration in order to properly seat the rings. If you totally granny it, they'll never seal. In other words, hit it hard from a dead stop for 4 or 5 seconds, several times. This should seat the rings.

Purple dude-
Do you have a filter installed underneath the PCV valve, above the baffle? If not, get one. If so, change it to a clean one. This should greatly reduce your oil consumption.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

PKRWUD · 08-15-2001, 01:59 AM

I hate it when that happens.

Stang_ROTY · 08-15-2001, 06:42 AM

NO SMOKE this morning during startup and my ride to work. YES! Now all I need to do is re-route the PCV system like Chris said. Thanks gentlemen.

Five0 · 08-15-2001, 06:53 PM

Hey I got on it again today and mine does not smoke anymore either. Cool

I guess those rings seated.

08-12-2001, 11:48 AM	#1
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Stang_ROTY project status My cooling prolem seems to be fixed so I took the car for it's first real road test to the dragstrip (about 50 miles) and I noticed a of things. 1) The engine has 50 miles on it and everytime a start it it's puffs smoke out the tailpipes and the inside of my tips are black. My Uncle followed me and he noticed it puffing smoke at WOT. (I still haven't taken the engine above 4500 RPM's.) How long does it take to break a new engine in? 2) That C4 tranny is HOT!! I can't believe that generates that much heat. I better get a gauge to read the trans temp. 3) I don't like the fact that my oil pressure drops under 50 psi at idle. Is that normal? 4) The temp. gauge never went above 195 but I found some foam when I opened the rad. cap. ------------------ Finally DONE!! 93 GT, 393 stroker w/ Edlebrock Performer heads and EFI, 30lb injectors, Dynamic Roller Mite C4, 8 pt cage, Sothside Machine bars & Sub-frames, 3.73's, '69 351W block w/SCAT crank.

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08-12-2001, 02:44 PM	#2
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	Don't fret about the oil pressure, especially at idle, as long as it goes up when you get to 2000rpms you're fine. Do you have a tranny cooler? If not it's cheap insurance, lots of kits out there. What color is the smoke it's puffing? If it's black then it's rich at WOT, this will probably get better as you drive the car more and the computer adapts. As for break-in, change the oil when you've got about 150 miles on it, then keep it under 4000 until about the 1000-1500 mile mark, then change the oil again and you'll be ready to rock.

08-13-2001, 08:13 AM	#3
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	The smoke is like a white color with blue tint to it. Looks like oil to me.

08-13-2001, 04:30 PM	#4
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	your problems are normal. the only thing to watch is the smoke. it only takes a few miles to break in the motor. assuming you did it properly. look for leaks and check the plugs for oil. unless the machine shop did a poor job on the motor you should not have to worry about the rings. glad to hear that the car is running cool now, what did you do?

08-13-2001, 05:45 PM	#5
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	All I had to do was take the black Magic fan out and replace it with a reverse rotation fan and the OEM shroud. It really helped! Hey, I think I found my oil burning problem. I think it's in the PCV valve. I was never given the baffle that goes under the lower manifold and my PCV valve is sending oil straight into my upper plenum. I checked the vac. line and it's got oil in it. Is there any way I can re-rout the PCV vac. system or does it have to go into manifold vac??

08-13-2001, 10:34 PM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	It has to go into manifold vacuum. And, you keep forgetting to mention the CAP! You don't seem to realize that the new radiator cap played a HUGE role in correcting your overheating problem. Trust me. I got you out of it, right? Trust me. You need the baffle and a filter underneath you PCV val;ve, otherwise you're just going to foul out plugs and hamper your break in. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

08-14-2001, 06:50 AM	#7
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	The cap helped too. He's correct. It's such a simple part that I forget to mention it all the time. I guess this means i have to take off the lower manifold, no way around it. That baffle needs to be there.

08-14-2001, 08:51 AM	#8
PrplMonster Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Posts: 88	My intake(Performer) has a small baffle plate underneath the PCV valve opening, is this the baffle your talking about..? If so, my intake still sucks oil and the Edelbrock Tech said it's normal for a lil oil in the intake.. thanx .dave

08-14-2001, 11:09 AM	#9
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Really? Hmmm. That's the baffle I'm talking about. Does it suck a little oil or enough to actually form a puddle (if I take the plenum cover off where it says "Edelbrock", I actually see a puddle of oil)? If you have a lot of oil like I do than maybe that's not my problem.

08-14-2001, 03:43 PM	#10
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	you can definately reroute your pvc system. you can also get rid of it if you want. it is reccomended for alot of street driving though. there are so many ways to make an evac. sys. you can use any port that has vac. nothing on a race car has to be done only one way. dont be afraid to experiment.

08-14-2001, 05:45 PM	#11
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	I just want to prevent the oil from entering my intake without taking the engine apart. I understand that even stock 5.0's burn some oil but I think I am really pushing it when oil starts to seep through the gasket on the upper plenum cove and drops onto my intake runners. Something ain't right. My engine builder is coming over tonight to help me re-route the PCV system. I'm really not concerned with passing emissions b/c without the smog pump I don't think it would pass. I just don't want to hinder my break in my allowing oil to burn with the gas. Plus, it must be taking away HP too.

08-14-2001, 06:27 PM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	First, let me clarify something. The term "manifold vacuum" means unrestricted vacuum that is taken from anywhere below the throttle plate(s). It designates the source of the vacuum, not where the vacuum hose goes to. Your power brake booster has manifold vacuum applied to it. So does your fuel pressure regulator, etc. Your PCV valve requires manifold vacuum to re-route the blow-by back into the combustion chamber. Blow by gasses carry with them traces of oil, which is unavoidable, but, to lessen the amount of oil entering the intake, manufacturers place a baffle and a filter in the PCV route. That is why valve covers have a baffle underneath the breathers, and why all the carburetor equipped factory air cleaners had that funny foam wedge stuck to the inside of the air cleaner where the PCV hose entered. Ford places the baffle below their choice of locations for the PCV valve, the rear of the intake manifold, and they also insert a filter in there. Those two items, when clean, prevent 99% of the oil from reaching the intake. Do you have other options? Of course you do. You can block off the factory location and install a PCV valve into a valve cover breather hole, using a proper sized grommet. Make sure you insert a foam filter underneath the valve first. As long as there is a baffle and a filter, you should be fine. There are other ways to get rid of the blow-by as well, including having it routed directly into the exhaust, but that should never be used on a street driven vehicle. Talk to your mechanic about installing a PCV valve in the valve cover, but don't forget the baffle and the filter, otherwise you'll just be sucking oil into your intake. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

08-14-2001, 08:47 PM	#13
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Thanks again Chris. Yet again you are right on the money. My engine builder came over tonight and I think I was right about the engine smoking due to the PCV vac. line routing. Here's what happened. I took off the plenum cover wiped a large puddle of oil from the inside of the plenum, then I blocked off the PCV valve vac. hose with a screw, and started her. Hardly any smoke whatsoever. He took the oil cap off the spout and said "If the rings didn't seat correct smoke would blow out of this spout" while at idle and WOT. There was no smoke pouring out. That's good right? Anyway, the next step is exactly what you said. Re-routing the PCV valve. I'll know for sure what the deal is with the oil burning tomarrow morning. Thanks again Chris. You're the man.

08-14-2001, 10:09 PM	#14
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	Hey, on a new motor with less than 30 miles on it would the motor still blow smoke out of it and if so how long does it take for the rings to seal? I asked this question in another post but got no reply. The rings are pro moly rings and it is on a 347. I have noticed smoke coming out of the engine compartment when I gave it a little gas and I only did it once. I know I have a leak in the heater core because I have green antifreeze coming out of the heater/ac core that drains out of the firewall and it is dripping on the headers and I am not sure if the smoke was from that or something else. ------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX 12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

08-14-2001, 11:50 PM	#15
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Hmmm... I've been thinking about running my PCV from the valve cover to the plenum since the Vic 5.0 intake doesn't have any provision for in it in the stock location. As for the Performer oil problem, maybe a baffle/catch routed in between the pcv and the plenum?

08-15-2001, 01:51 AM	#16
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Five0- Your rings should have seated by now. After the initial 20 minutes @ 2000 rpm's, a new engine should be subjected to several short, hard bursts of loaded acceleration in order to properly seat the rings. If you totally granny it, they'll never seal. In other words, hit it hard from a dead stop for 4 or 5 seconds, several times. This should seat the rings. Purple dude- Do you have a filter installed underneath the PCV valve, above the baffle? If not, get one. If so, change it to a clean one. This should greatly reduce your oil consumption. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

08-15-2001, 01:54 AM	#17
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Five0- Your rings should have seated by now. After the initial 20 minutes @ 2000 rpm's, a new engine should be subjected to several short, hard bursts of loaded acceleration in order to properly seat the rings. If you totally granny it, they'll never seal. In other words, hit it hard from a dead stop for 4 or 5 seconds, several times. This should seat the rings. Purple dude- Do you have a filter installed underneath the PCV valve, above the baffle? If not, get one. If so, change it to a clean one. This should greatly reduce your oil consumption. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

08-15-2001, 01:59 AM	#18
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I hate it when that happens.

08-15-2001, 06:42 AM	#19
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	NO SMOKE this morning during startup and my ride to work. YES! Now all I need to do is re-route the PCV system like Chris said. Thanks gentlemen.

08-15-2001, 06:53 PM	#20
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	Hey I got on it again today and mine does not smoke anymore either. Cool I guess those rings seated.