How well does the Flaming River manual rack work on the street?

[AxemanZZ]

I know I've seen topics about this, but I wanted to post it again to see if anyone else has any more insight on this.

I am currently setup for carving corners and plan on having a car that will run low to mid 11's when I am done. What I'm wondering is how hard is it to drive a Stang on the street when it's fitted with a manual rack?

Does it make it too hard to steer to be able to take corners well? And what ratio would be best for a corner carver?

Thanks.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[84_GT350]

My belt broke once while driving and I essentially had manual steering. Lemme tell you...it SUCKED. It was all I could do to get my car off the street and into a parking lot. I don't know about the Flaming River rack. I think it would kill any corner carving ability due to the force needed to turn the wheel.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

[Godslayer]

I don't know about the Flaming River rack, but if you have power steering and the pump stops working, the power rack will be a lot harder than a manual rack will ever be. Don't think manual racks are as hard to turn as faulty power racks. They only are fuss when the car isn't moving or moving very slowly, otherwise they are almost as easy as most power racks.

------------------
87 GT
Full exhaust, K&N, 110k
15.0 @ 95MPH

87 Taurus
New York
Winters Bite!

[IH8GM]

Guys,

I have been looking into the man. rack as a future mod and here is what I have found out so far. The flaming river comes in two different ratios 18:1 for street/drag racing and 15:1 for road racing.

I spoke to a few people who are using the Flaming River 15:1 and they love it and would never go back to power steering.

If you go with Flaming River you must use there steering shaft or adaptor flange because the splines are different from the factory steering shaft.

What I think I'll be doing is using a man. rack from an early 80's mustang instead. It's not quite as light as Flaming River. 17 pounds to Flaming River 12 pounds. The factory rack has a raio of 20:1. My car is not a daily driver and will be set up for the drag strip so I will live with the 20:1 ratio. Factory racks are about $160 - $175 plus core $50 - $70 in my town. This is for a remanufactured rack.

If you are brave/stupid like my self you might want to try the salvage yards. I found a place that sells them at $150 + $25 for shipping with no core charge. Hope this helps you.

The idea is to get the weight down and this isn't a bad place to start. Also expect to gain a few hp by losing the power steering pump.

Later!!!

[AxemanZZ]

A power steering rack will be very hard to turn without the pump assisting it. I'm not sure what the ratio is for a power rack, but I know a Flaming River manual rack wouldn't be nearly as hard to turn as a power unit without the assist. There has to be someone on here running one of these racks, preferably the 15:1 ratio I guess. Anyone?

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[StangFlyer]

We have an article that will give you some information about the Flaming River rack, and show you some install pictures. It's called Lighten Your Fron End, and is located in the Technical : Articles : Drivetrain section. (we need to create a suspension section).

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 12-29-2000).]

[NO SLO PK]

I'd be concerned about the amount of effort required just to hold the wheel during a sweeper. Of course, an easier ratio would help but would also mean less responsiveness, and it might be harder to negotiate turns on short courses or autocrosses.

Once I disonnected my pump and it took a lot of effort just to keep the wheel in place during a medium speed turn. Besides, don't the Nascar boys use p/s pumps?



------------------
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[AxemanZZ]

OK, how about a Flaming River power unit? What's the benefit of going to a Flaming River unit over a stock one?

My rack is leaking badly and I need to get this taken care of because it's coating the underside of my car with PS fluid =( I was just thinking that a manual rack would allow me to shave off some more weight.

I'll check that out Dan. Thanks.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[leo]

I feel you Axemanzz, mine has been leaking for over 6 months now. I need to replace my rack ASAP, but I want to go the cheapest route. I'm really looking at getting the 15:1 rack, can I just get the rack, bushings, tie rod ends, and adapter and be ok? Also, what do I need to do to the pulley system one I get this piece of $hit power steering out?

Thanks guys,
Leo

------------------
1990GT 5.0 Stock 302, rebuilt 5spd, K&n Air filter, Dynomax Super Turbo Exhaust, Hypertech Chip, MSD 6A Ignition, RAM Clutch, Motorsport 3 core, Offroad H-pipe.

[90LSC]

Power steering means what it says. When you lose a belt, hose or pump the steering WILL BE HARD. Manual steering does take more effort than power but it is manageable.

While I've never driven a Mustang with a Flaming River rack, I have driven several different models of cars and pickups with manual steering. Big, heavy vehicles require effort, light vehicles do not. You do get a LOT of road feel{or feedback}. Since the Mustang is relatively light, I would bet that the Flaming River rack is no sweat.

One of these days when $$ is not so tight I will put one on my Mk VII. That is, as long as it is a straight swap or with VERY little modification.

[MiracleMax]

I believe the stock rack ratio on 5.0 litre cars is 15:1, Man, thats cool!, Now I can dump the power rack and pump (well at least put it in the future hard to find parts locker! In 40 years I'll have stock part some mustang restoration enthusiast will be looking for! Outta be good enough to pay for the big voltage batteries in the jetson mobile )

Think I'm kidding about that, Just look at what your folk's say "I wish I would'a kept that car, never knew it would be worth that much)

[S Howard]

Yes its true the manual rack requires greater effort to turn than a p/s unit, only while the vehicle is stationary. With a manual rack you will have a greater road feel--no pump to absorb the bumps. I once drove my ex's MGB with manual steering and although it was a light car I felt all the nuances in the road. It was great. The steering not the car. The car was a piece of $hit. I believe SN 95--not sure about fox bodies--the standard ratio is 18:1 except Cobras. I installed a 97 cobra quick ratio p/s rack 15:1. The difference was remarkable. The unit was complete from tie rod end to tie rod end so the change was easy. I have thought about changing to a manual unit but since my Stang is a daily driver.. Trying to parallel park etc. Keep us informed if you perform the switch.

[AxemanZZ]

I had a 65 Stang and a 66 Stang with manual steering, but it's been so long ago i don't remember how they were to drive. I know they were a b!%@h to park =)

I'll probably just stick with a power unit and get a whole new setup for the front end including the pump.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[Darkside]

I have a Flamning River rack in my89 Notch and it great, You can tell a difference trying to park but its very liveable. It freed up some more power took of weight and that was my goal, I drive mine daily in good weather and find no problems with it, glad I made the change and I think you will to if you go with it.

Army Orlandini
Darkside

[AxemanZZ]

Finally! Thanks Darkside.
How well is it in the corners? I'm not too worried about parking the beast.


------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

I have had the Manual River Rack now for almost a year and there are times I wish I still had power steering.

With the 225 Gators on the the front of the car it is a pain in the *** to turn at slow speeds. You have to learn how to steer all over again really, because you can't wait till the last minute to change direction on the road.

With skinny tires on the front it is much better. Fortunatly I don't drive the car every day so that is a blessing, if I did drive the car all the time Power Steering would have stayed on the car for sure.

Hope this helps,

James

[shovelnose]

I have a stock manual rack in my 82 Capri. It probably is older than the car.

I works fine. It's tough at a stand-still, but once rolling it's a piece of cake. Plus you get better road feel, lighter, no pump to drive, no fluid leaks, cleaner engine bay.

IMA, the flaming probably has a better gear ratio then stock.

Go for it.

------------------
82 Mercury Capri 302.
Comp. Cams
Tremec 3550
3.73's
12.8@106 N/A

[Skankin]

THe stock rack isn't completely power... it's power assist. That said, when you loose power, it is tougher cause you have to push fluid through the lines. Some people disconnect the lines (the power assist), and just run with the stock rack.

The aluminum components in the stock rack cause the other metal to rust. The produces internal leaks, and wrecks the powersteering pump as the rust floats about. This is the major problem with the old foxes... ie. why so many of them sound like they have a blower (I think they fixed the defect for the SN95's). Changing fluid annually is good.

If you have air conditioning, the powersteering reservoir is located too close to the exhaust header, and it gets overheated (burnt). Using a semi-synthetic ATF will help (I've got a PS cooler too).

The mustang rack is 15:1, Lincoln's etc. get the 18 or 20:1 (which is easier to turn).

The standard Flaming river is 18 or 20... the quick ratio is 15 (which is harder to turn).

My power assist is toast (as well as the pump), so I'll probably pick up a manual rack from an older stang (they're also 18 or 20).

------------------
'89.5 5L LX, hatch, Medium Canyon Red, 155K Km (No winters), 5sp, 3.08, GT interior, a/c, Alpine CD, K/N, Crane PS91, Walbro 190 LPH, March Pulleys, Mr. Gasket 180 therm (HP balanced), 3 core rad, MarkVIII fan, Variflow controller, Polygraphite front bushings, FMS-5300B springs, 6 KYB's, 73mm Calipers, Maximum Motorsport 4pt chassis brace, Western Motorsport Racing's Sub-frame connectors. Re-ringed bottom end, conv. motor mounts, melling oil pump, FMS-C50 waterpump, GT40P heads (blended, polli

[SHaFT7]

do all the fox-bodied mustangs have that problem w/ rust going around in the pump??

i have a 91GT, and my ps pump kinda sounds like a blower sometimeas.....does this mean its going bad??

thnx

------------------
SHaFTed

[AxemanZZ]

If you have the correct fluid level in it and it still whines try changing the fluid. If it still does it then your pump is probably going bad =(

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

[This message has been edited by AxemanZZ (edited 01-02-2001).]