Need help quick please oil problem with new motor

302crew · 11-24-2002, 03:23 PM

okay i just got my new 306 dss block i bought it off a friend he hasnt ussed it in about a year i put it in it runs fine smooth but i looked at my auto meter oil gauge and i have 0 psi at an idle and like 20 when its reved up now i have the clear oil line going to the gauge the oil never even makes it in there then when i rev it it goes in a little and and if i let off the gas it all flows back into the motor the one think i was thinking it could be was when i put the motor together the gaskets between the pick up and oil pump and oil pump and block werent in to good of shape could this be my problem i know it has some oil pressure cause i know what a motor without sounds like any advice would be greatly apriciated thanks in advance

302crew · 11-24-2002, 08:23 PM

anyone please maybee a suggestion

NO SLO PK · 11-24-2002, 08:37 PM

Can you hook up your in-dash gauge and confirm you are getting 0 psi at idle?

I can't tell you if the gaskets are the problem. It's possible the pump is sucking air, but I'd rather check the gauge reading before tearing anything apart.

HotRoddin · 11-24-2002, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 302crew
okay i just got my new 306 dss block i bought it off a friend he hasnt ussed it in about a year

was it a short block or did you put it together from parts ?
Are you sure of the clearances ?

302crew · 11-25-2002, 02:02 AM

dss built it

Jeff Chambers · 11-25-2002, 07:53 AM

I would bet that you've blown one of the oil galley plugs out at the front of the block. You'll have to pull the front cover to see for sure, but its very likely that's the problem. Seen it happen many, many times. That's why I always have my oil galley plugs tapped for NPT plugs rather than using the stock freeze plug style.

302crew · 11-25-2002, 03:09 PM

they already have been plugged

302crew · 11-28-2002, 03:14 PM

okay well i told all of you how i wasnt sure what was up with my car not having the proper oil pressure so i put in a new pump a high pressure one changed all the gaskets and when i was taking it apart there was metal peices in the bottom of my pan i got it all back toghetrer started it up and it had about 70 psi at an idle when it was cold as soon as it heated up it went to 19psi at an idle and about 40 to 50 when reving it to 6000 rpm could the bearings might have rusted when the motor was sitting for about a year and they are just worn out now and if so can i get away with just changing the bearings in the motor. cause it has only about 7000 miles on it also if i was to just takew out the bearings in the mains and rods and put new in would the motor still be balanced or would that have to be redone cause dss says the blocks are balanced and blueprinted some suggestions would help me so much right now if anyone would like to talk to me on AIM im smatt302 thanks for the hlep or advice in advance

PKRWUD · 11-28-2002, 03:41 PM

What were the metal pieces in the pan from?

If the bearings became damaged enough to cause the pressure to drop that much, the crank is going to need to be polished, at the very least.

New bearings won't throw it out of balance.

302crew · 11-28-2002, 03:44 PM

im not sure where the metal peices cam form the thing is the motor runs fine no ticks or knocks do you have any other suggestions what might be causeing this

Jeff Chambers · 11-28-2002, 05:25 PM

Yep, something's not right. Metal from the bearings would be copper; you'd also have it in the oil filter - cut it apart to check. With a standard volume pump you should have 10 psi per 1000 rpm. With a high pressure, it should be 15psi per 1000 rpm. I'd be worried with on 19psi at idle. Sitting for a year shouldn't of been a problem unless the oil had water in it when it was put away. I'd check the block over to make sure its not cracked somewhere. #2 main web is probably the most common place for it to crack, starting at the cylinder bore to web line and moving towards the cam bearing. #1 main would be the next most common place. Sometimes you have to look really good to see the cracks as they'll follow the natural casting lines. You could also pop off #5 main cap for a quick look at the bearings. It usually takes the most abuse due to the 50 in-oz balance.

The motor would still be balanced just fine if you replaced the bearings. In the DSS blueprint sheet, what was the main journal clearance? It should only be about 0.0025".

302crew · 11-28-2002, 07:38 PM

it was a silverish type metal form the looks of it also the motor did sit outside for a couple mounths in a plastic back and there was some mostirue in it so im thinking maybee the bearings formed rust on them and when i started the car it took the rust away but that was too much and now the clearences are all messed up and how do i go about ordering new bearings do i order a certain one this is a dss motor and its never been rebuilt the motor doesnt make any noise so do you think ill have to have the crank cut or will it be fine

MEDIK418 · 11-28-2002, 08:12 PM

I'd bet money the metal parts are from the bearings. I've had this happen like this due to twisted oil pump drives and both times the culprit (as far as oil pressure went) was bad bearings. Once not too many years ago, I pulled one apart that was putting up about the same pressures you describe and found the oil pickup screen completely plugged off with those little silicon pieces from where someone put too much on the gaskets and it squeezed the stuff out and into the engine's innards. Looked like a handfull of worms. Still galled the bearings though. About the only way to be sure is to tear it down to the mains and rod bearings and check for yourself.

302crew · 11-28-2002, 08:38 PM

how do i know what kind of bearings to order

MEDIK418 · 11-28-2002, 11:56 PM

You're going to have to contact DSS to be sure. They can tell you what it's supposed to be and you can check the crank to see if it was turned under their specs. I'd take it to a machine shop and they can help you figure out what size bearings to get. Most shops will help with something like that for little or nothing. THe one I use does this for me every time I bring one in for free.

302crew · 11-29-2002, 11:18 AM

do you think the crank is going to be messed up even thow the motor doesn knock and i havnt driven it with the low oil pressure and also that it doent knock

PKRWUD · 11-29-2002, 04:55 PM

Anything that would cause the bearings to wear that much in 7000 miles or less would definitely do at least some damage to the crank journals as well. If you're lucky, maybe you can just get away with hand lapping them, but you absolutely should remove it and have it inspected.

Take care,
~Chris

HotRoddin · 11-29-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 302crew
how do i know what kind of bearings to order

You have to take em out to check them ... the mfg and size are stamped into each one ... and the contact surface of engine bearings don't rust, they are made of zink and copper.
Did you start that motor after a year without prelubbing it ? If you did, the bearings were probably bone dry and if they were you may have damaged all of them ?

302crew · 12-01-2002, 02:58 AM

well i just found out that the motor was kept outside in a bag and the bag broke but only a little rain got in there so im figuring on just changing the bearings and it will be fine hopefully the rings are good when the motor runs now it doesnt smoke that much what could i do to test them and even if the rings are bad would i lose oil pressure

12-01-2002, 04:04 AM

Do a compression test to see what each cylinder has for pressure readings.

If the rings are bad,it will smoke all the time.

11-24-2002, 08:37 PM	#3
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Can you hook up your in-dash gauge and confirm you are getting 0 psi at idle? I can't tell you if the gaskets are the problem. It's possible the pump is sucking air, but I'd rather check the gauge reading before tearing anything apart. __________________ Russ L '91 LX - 331 w/ Procharger '03 Cobra Convertible - Pullied '94 Lightning '65 Mustang Coupe

11-25-2002, 07:53 AM	#6
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	I would bet that you've blown one of the oil galley plugs out at the front of the block. You'll have to pull the front cover to see for sure, but its very likely that's the problem. Seen it happen many, many times. That's why I always have my oil galley plugs tapped for NPT plugs rather than using the stock freeze plug style. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-25-2002, 03:09 PM	#7
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	they already have been plugged __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 03:14 PM	#8
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	okay well i told all of you how i wasnt sure what was up with my car not having the proper oil pressure so i put in a new pump a high pressure one changed all the gaskets and when i was taking it apart there was metal peices in the bottom of my pan i got it all back toghetrer started it up and it had about 70 psi at an idle when it was cold as soon as it heated up it went to 19psi at an idle and about 40 to 50 when reving it to 6000 rpm could the bearings might have rusted when the motor was sitting for about a year and they are just worn out now and if so can i get away with just changing the bearings in the motor. cause it has only about 7000 miles on it also if i was to just takew out the bearings in the mains and rods and put new in would the motor still be balanced or would that have to be redone cause dss says the blocks are balanced and blueprinted some suggestions would help me so much right now if anyone would like to talk to me on AIM im smatt302 thanks for the hlep or advice in advance __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 03:41 PM	#9
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	What were the metal pieces in the pan from? If the bearings became damaged enough to cause the pressure to drop that much, the crank is going to need to be polished, at the very least. New bearings won't throw it out of balance. __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

11-24-2002, 03:23 PM	#1
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	Need help quick please oil problem with new motor okay i just got my new 306 dss block i bought it off a friend he hasnt ussed it in about a year i put it in it runs fine smooth but i looked at my auto meter oil gauge and i have 0 psi at an idle and like 20 when its reved up now i have the clear oil line going to the gauge the oil never even makes it in there then when i rev it it goes in a little and and if i let off the gas it all flows back into the motor the one think i was thinking it could be was when i put the motor together the gaskets between the pick up and oil pump and oil pump and block werent in to good of shape could this be my problem i know it has some oil pressure cause i know what a motor without sounds like any advice would be greatly apriciated thanks in advance __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-24-2002, 08:23 PM	#2
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	anyone please maybee a suggestion __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-25-2002, 02:02 AM	#5
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	dss built it __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 03:44 PM	#10
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	im not sure where the metal peices cam form the thing is the motor runs fine no ticks or knocks do you have any other suggestions what might be causeing this __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 05:25 PM	#11
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Yep, something's not right. Metal from the bearings would be copper; you'd also have it in the oil filter - cut it apart to check. With a standard volume pump you should have 10 psi per 1000 rpm. With a high pressure, it should be 15psi per 1000 rpm. I'd be worried with on 19psi at idle. Sitting for a year shouldn't of been a problem unless the oil had water in it when it was put away. I'd check the block over to make sure its not cracked somewhere. #2 main web is probably the most common place for it to crack, starting at the cylinder bore to web line and moving towards the cam bearing. #1 main would be the next most common place. Sometimes you have to look really good to see the cracks as they'll follow the natural casting lines. You could also pop off #5 main cap for a quick look at the bearings. It usually takes the most abuse due to the 50 in-oz balance. The motor would still be balanced just fine if you replaced the bearings. In the DSS blueprint sheet, what was the main journal clearance? It should only be about 0.0025". __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-28-2002, 07:38 PM	#12
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	it was a silverish type metal form the looks of it also the motor did sit outside for a couple mounths in a plastic back and there was some mostirue in it so im thinking maybee the bearings formed rust on them and when i started the car it took the rust away but that was too much and now the clearences are all messed up and how do i go about ordering new bearings do i order a certain one this is a dss motor and its never been rebuilt the motor doesnt make any noise so do you think ill have to have the crank cut or will it be fine __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 08:12 PM	#13
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	I'd bet money the metal parts are from the bearings. I've had this happen like this due to twisted oil pump drives and both times the culprit (as far as oil pressure went) was bad bearings. Once not too many years ago, I pulled one apart that was putting up about the same pressures you describe and found the oil pickup screen completely plugged off with those little silicon pieces from where someone put too much on the gaskets and it squeezed the stuff out and into the engine's innards. Looked like a handfull of worms. Still galled the bearings though. About the only way to be sure is to tear it down to the mains and rod bearings and check for yourself. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

11-28-2002, 08:38 PM	#14
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	how do i know what kind of bearings to order __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-28-2002, 11:56 PM	#15
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	You're going to have to contact DSS to be sure. They can tell you what it's supposed to be and you can check the crank to see if it was turned under their specs. I'd take it to a machine shop and they can help you figure out what size bearings to get. Most shops will help with something like that for little or nothing. THe one I use does this for me every time I bring one in for free. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

11-29-2002, 11:18 AM	#16
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	do you think the crank is going to be messed up even thow the motor doesn knock and i havnt driven it with the low oil pressure and also that it doent knock __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

11-29-2002, 04:55 PM	#17
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Anything that would cause the bearings to wear that much in 7000 miles or less would definitely do at least some damage to the crank journals as well. If you're lucky, maybe you can just get away with hand lapping them, but you absolutely should remove it and have it inspected. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

12-01-2002, 02:58 AM	#19
302crew Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: sloatsburg Posts: 261	well i just found out that the motor was kept outside in a bag and the bag broke but only a little rain got in there so im figuring on just changing the bearings and it will be fine hopefully the rings are good when the motor runs now it doesnt smoke that much what could i do to test them and even if the rings are bad would i lose oil pressure __________________ 306 edelbrock 6037 heads full mac exuast 1.7 rr 373 rear hd clutch tremec mighty demon 650 carb msd ignition rpm air gap intake custom cam still trying to get it to run right

12-01-2002, 04:04 AM	#20
Mustanguy Guest Posts: n/a	Do a compression test to see what each cylinder has for pressure readings. If the rings are bad,it will smoke all the time.

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