Where to go from here?

gothand · 11-17-2006, 02:06 PM

After being out of the Mustang scene for awhile (not counting my wife's 3 different stock '92 through '98 GTs), I'm diving back in. After sitting in storage for nearly 10 years, I fired up and sold my '65 GT coupe but am going to keep my '65 Fastback.

The fastback currently has a 351W that was in my '85, with Alan Root aluminum heads (1.94/160) (SVO?), Holley 4150, Edelbrock performer intake, Crower custom grind solid lifter roller cam (.547" in./.539 ex.) and all the nice hardware to go along with it. In 1990, it dyno'd. at the rear wheels 335 hp@6000 and 394 ft-lbs. at 3000.

Well, the engine has been sitting for several years and probably has in the neighborhood of 80,000 mostly freeway miles. Frankly, a 351W in a 65/66 is a royal PITA to work on due to clearance issues. The custom built headers are a nightmare to remove, install, tighten, etc. I'm at a crossroads as to what to do.

Scenario A

Swap out the heads for some Edelbrocks or similar which will allow the use of JBA medium length headers designed for swapping a 351W into an early Mustang. Also, I'd swap out the cam to something a bit more mild and hydraulic (engine had to idle at about 1000 rpms and adjusting the valves got old).

Scenario B

Ditch the 351W and swap in a 302 block engine of some sort. D&J Machine has one listed on Ebay (375hp@5500 & 395ft-lbs@4500) that appears to be pretty nice for $3200 delivered. A concern could be the ProComp heads and the advertised 2.055" intake valves. Aren't these a tad large for this application?

I've found that in my older years I don't crave the horsepower I once did and that as long as it is a strong runner, I'll probably be happy.

Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Things have sure changed in the 15 or so years since I've had an engine built.

Thanks!

Gearhead999 · 11-17-2006, 09:29 PM

I'd stick with the 351, change the heads and headers for clearance.

Go to a Hyd. roller cam myself. You can get alot of power from them, with out all the noise and adjustments.

If you choose "B"....well to equal the power you'll have to stroke the 302. Still have to change the heads, etc. Seems easier to do "A" and cheaper too.

Dark Knight · 11-19-2006, 07:57 AM

Whats the prob with the AR heads? Did they raise the ports? Havent heard about those heads in a long time. And do you really just have a performer on there? Bet you're losing alot of HP with that..

Personally, I'd go with AFR 185's, weiand stealth, and a comp cams
XE284H in the 351w. Probably give you more HP than you have now..

1979bruiser · 11-19-2006, 09:21 AM

over in a post of mine about procomp heads you may find some help ful info. seems that procomps are made in aussie and a 2.05 valve is not much bigger than a 2.02 valve. not enough to kill your power or change it noticeably.i would stick w/ the 351w swap headers and a new cam.i would also ditch the performer for atleast a performer rpm or stealth intake.

gothand · 11-19-2006, 01:28 PM

The AR heads are nice, but the only headers I cannot any headers for a '65/'66 Mustang that are compatible. The JBA medium length headers for this swap require heads patterned after the original Ford design (no raised ports, paraphrasing JBA).

I have no doubt that the manifold is a limitation. The dyno results did not show the upper end power that was anticipated, nosing off a bit early. The problem with a taller intake is that the hood clearance is minimal and I don't want to go to a scoop. I'd like to keep it as stock looking as possible (aside from the agressive stance of the Global West suspension).

At this point, I'm entertaining a 347 stroker from T and L Engines and parting/selling the 351W.

Thanks for the help.

Dark Knight · 11-19-2006, 02:04 PM

Are you planning on going with their complete engine? If so, the dart heads have raised exhaust ports, you'll need to change the timing cover, the RPM intake is taller than a performer and I really wouldn't want the hyper pistons.. but thats just me. Why them and not someplace like CHP etc? Or have someplace close build it? Alot less hassle if you have a problem.

gothand · 11-19-2006, 03:00 PM

I would get their complete engine w/manifold and use my Holley 4150 and MSD ignition. The header clearance isn't an issue with the 302 block, only the 351 so the ports won't matter.

I know CPH is right in my backyard, but it appears I would certainly be spending a fair amount more money there. Although I wouldn't have to pay shipping, I would have to pay the 8.25% sales tax.

Are the hyper pistons a problem on a normally aspirated engine? One concern is that I have read of cooling issues.

FWIW, the engine from D&J uses the ProComp castings and they machine them and assemble them in house.

I'd love to go hog wild, but I will need to set aside maybe $5K for the paint and body. Damn!

1979bruiser · 11-19-2006, 05:46 PM

i see nothing wrong w/ hyper pistons. i have used them in the past and even sprayed them w/ no problems. now i did go crazy w/ the spray but never saw a single issue w/ them. if they were an issue k-b and other companies wqouldnt keep selling performance pistons for people who have a budget that like to run the piss out of there car once in a while.

bmxmon · 11-21-2006, 12:44 AM

Or you could go with plan C, mustang 2 front suspension. Would cost you less than a new engine and give you better steering, though you'll still have an engine thats 10yrs old and 80k miles. Something to think about.

gothand · 11-21-2006, 01:58 AM

I thought about the Mustang II front suspension about 12 years ago for my old '65 coupe, but just couldn't bear to tear up the unibody like that. Considering the fastbacks are getting pretty valuable and it is in such solid shape, I still can't do it.

I went ahead and ordered the 302 today, although I did consider the 331 and the 347 for a few minutes. When all was said and done, I decided that 375 hp/395 ft-lb. was enough to get me into trouble and the price was certainly right.

I'm just going to pull and sell the 351. I'm sure I'll take a bath on it and whoever ends up with it will be quite happy.

11-17-2006, 02:06 PM	#1
gothand Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Where to go from here? After being out of the Mustang scene for awhile (not counting my wife's 3 different stock '92 through '98 GTs), I'm diving back in. After sitting in storage for nearly 10 years, I fired up and sold my '65 GT coupe but am going to keep my '65 Fastback. The fastback currently has a 351W that was in my '85, with Alan Root aluminum heads (1.94/160) (SVO?), Holley 4150, Edelbrock performer intake, Crower custom grind solid lifter roller cam (.547" in./.539 ex.) and all the nice hardware to go along with it. In 1990, it dyno'd. at the rear wheels 335 hp@6000 and 394 ft-lbs. at 3000. Well, the engine has been sitting for several years and probably has in the neighborhood of 80,000 mostly freeway miles. Frankly, a 351W in a 65/66 is a royal PITA to work on due to clearance issues. The custom built headers are a nightmare to remove, install, tighten, etc. I'm at a crossroads as to what to do. Scenario A Swap out the heads for some Edelbrocks or similar which will allow the use of JBA medium length headers designed for swapping a 351W into an early Mustang. Also, I'd swap out the cam to something a bit more mild and hydraulic (engine had to idle at about 1000 rpms and adjusting the valves got old). Scenario B Ditch the 351W and swap in a 302 block engine of some sort. D&J Machine has one listed on Ebay (375hp@5500 & 395ft-lbs@4500) that appears to be pretty nice for $3200 delivered. A concern could be the ProComp heads and the advertised 2.055" intake valves. Aren't these a tad large for this application? I've found that in my older years I don't crave the horsepower I once did and that as long as it is a strong runner, I'll probably be happy. Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Things have sure changed in the 15 or so years since I've had an engine built. Thanks!

11-17-2006, 09:29 PM	#2
Gearhead999 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 992	Re: Where to go from here? I'd stick with the 351, change the heads and headers for clearance. Go to a Hyd. roller cam myself. You can get alot of power from them, with out all the noise and adjustments. If you choose "B"....well to equal the power you'll have to stroke the 302. Still have to change the heads, etc. Seems easier to do "A" and cheaper too. __________________ "Support our Troops" Dave 1968 Cougar 2004 Thunderbird 2007 F150 Harley-Davidson, SuperCrew 1986 LTD 1997 Ranger 1992 Honda Civic

11-19-2006, 07:57 AM	#3
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	Re: Where to go from here? Whats the prob with the AR heads? Did they raise the ports? Havent heard about those heads in a long time. And do you really just have a performer on there? Bet you're losing alot of HP with that.. Personally, I'd go with AFR 185's, weiand stealth, and a comp cams XE284H in the 351w. Probably give you more HP than you have now.. __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

11-19-2006, 09:21 AM	#4
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: Where to go from here? over in a post of mine about procomp heads you may find some help ful info. seems that procomps are made in aussie and a 2.05 valve is not much bigger than a 2.02 valve. not enough to kill your power or change it noticeably.i would stick w/ the 351w swap headers and a new cam.i would also ditch the performer for atleast a performer rpm or stealth intake.

11-19-2006, 01:28 PM	#5
gothand Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Where to go from here? The AR heads are nice, but the only headers I cannot any headers for a '65/'66 Mustang that are compatible. The JBA medium length headers for this swap require heads patterned after the original Ford design (no raised ports, paraphrasing JBA). I have no doubt that the manifold is a limitation. The dyno results did not show the upper end power that was anticipated, nosing off a bit early. The problem with a taller intake is that the hood clearance is minimal and I don't want to go to a scoop. I'd like to keep it as stock looking as possible (aside from the agressive stance of the Global West suspension). At this point, I'm entertaining a 347 stroker from T and L Engines and parting/selling the 351W. Thanks for the help.

11-19-2006, 02:04 PM	#6
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	Re: Where to go from here? Are you planning on going with their complete engine? If so, the dart heads have raised exhaust ports, you'll need to change the timing cover, the RPM intake is taller than a performer and I really wouldn't want the hyper pistons.. but thats just me. Why them and not someplace like CHP etc? Or have someplace close build it? Alot less hassle if you have a problem. __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

11-19-2006, 03:00 PM	#7
gothand Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Where to go from here? I would get their complete engine w/manifold and use my Holley 4150 and MSD ignition. The header clearance isn't an issue with the 302 block, only the 351 so the ports won't matter. I know CPH is right in my backyard, but it appears I would certainly be spending a fair amount more money there. Although I wouldn't have to pay shipping, I would have to pay the 8.25% sales tax. Are the hyper pistons a problem on a normally aspirated engine? One concern is that I have read of cooling issues. FWIW, the engine from D&J uses the ProComp castings and they machine them and assemble them in house. I'd love to go hog wild, but I will need to set aside maybe $5K for the paint and body. Damn!

11-19-2006, 05:46 PM	#8
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: Where to go from here? i see nothing wrong w/ hyper pistons. i have used them in the past and even sprayed them w/ no problems. now i did go crazy w/ the spray but never saw a single issue w/ them. if they were an issue k-b and other companies wqouldnt keep selling performance pistons for people who have a budget that like to run the piss out of there car once in a while.

11-21-2006, 12:44 AM	#9
bmxmon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 950	Re: Where to go from here? Or you could go with plan C, mustang 2 front suspension. Would cost you less than a new engine and give you better steering, though you'll still have an engine thats 10yrs old and 80k miles. Something to think about. __________________ Alex

11-21-2006, 01:58 AM	#10
gothand Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Where to go from here? I thought about the Mustang II front suspension about 12 years ago for my old '65 coupe, but just couldn't bear to tear up the unibody like that. Considering the fastbacks are getting pretty valuable and it is in such solid shape, I still can't do it. I went ahead and ordered the 302 today, although I did consider the 331 and the 347 for a few minutes. When all was said and done, I decided that 375 hp/395 ft-lb. was enough to get me into trouble and the price was certainly right. I'm just going to pull and sell the 351. I'm sure I'll take a bath on it and whoever ends up with it will be quite happy.