QUESTIONS ABOUT BUILDING MOTORS

LOCASH · 02-14-2001, 07:14 PM

Having a professional do it is not an option so here we go...How does this work? Do I tear it apart and measure everything to order the rebuild kit or do I order the rebuild kit and have everything machined to fit it? I see bearings with measurements but how do I know which ones I need? I would like to make a 306 but I am a bit confused. I have done all of my own mods but I have never built an engine before. Hope this isn't to general. Thanks in advance.

------------------
86 GT T-tops, AOD, B&M shift kit and hammer shifter, ROH wheels, K&N, Timing,MAC headers, 2.5 off road H, 2.5 American Thunder, 87 spindles, rear disc,SS lines, BBK 1.5, poly bushings, Steeda G-trac and subs, Strut bar.
"DRIVE LIKE YOU STOLE IT!"

dinomite · 02-14-2001, 09:42 PM

your saying you would pull your motor and then take it apart and rebuild it? If so, i think that you want to take it apart first to see if the block needs to be machined. Be prepared to pay some money for machine work though. Also, look into getting a book by Tom Monroe, he wrote two that i know of, "building small block fords" and "Engine Builder's handbook." I have the latter and it is VERY detaile (good).

MiracleMax · 02-14-2001, 11:51 PM

So whats your rebuild budget LOCASH? Basic block prep wouldn't be more than 500 bucks (always seemed in the 300 range if I remeber correctly), but a bored/honed/aligned block does add to total cost, cause if the bores have to be bored then you'll need new pistons.

My advice (and this is probably about as going cold turkey on crack

) is to set aside some money. The best way to save is to get a notebook and put together a pricelist. Then get your engine sorted out.

In the long run you'll be bucks ahead in my opinion (and power too). Gargage rebuilds can get the job done(successfully), but if you don't have access to all the tools you need, then by nessecity there will be comprimise which reduces longevity/power.

If I were going to do the rebuild on a limited budget I would;

1. Get the block machined (bored/honed/aligned/decked, and all of these operations might not be nessecary)
2. Check the crank and see if it needed to be turned (and get it at least polished)
3. Get it mocked up to make sure things fit (like the pistons are down correctly in the bore, etc)

Then go from there, once the short block has been set-up, the rest is pretty much a cake walk. You can check piston to valve clearence, degree in your own cam, check valve geometry, etc. yourself.

mustangII460 · 02-15-2001, 01:58 AM

When taking apart mark all of the rods and keep the rod cap with that rod,direction of rod to.

Take the crank,rods and block to the shop.

Unless your going to turn massive RPM's, resizing your old rods and turning your crank will work fine. Have rods and crank balanced.

When the shop is finished you will know what size bearings and pistons to get.

When putting it back together, plastic gage everything. I always mic everything too. You may want a book on how to assemble engines. There are some little things you need to do. Ie: ring positions etc.

Ask the machine shop guys questions on what they think you should do and go to a couple of different ones.

At my local shop,resize & balance rods,turn & balance crank,bore engine,install cam bearings, runs around $600.00. This is basic work that at a minimum needs to be done.

Chappy · 02-16-2001, 12:06 AM

I know that some will disagree with me on this one, but I figured I would throw in my opinion. I just got done refreshing my motor. I pulled it cus it was burning oil really bad in one cylinder. I knew it wasn't heads as I had just put new ones one, and it was still fouling plugs like you wouldn't believe. I pulled the motor out, tore it down. Took the block into the machine shop with a piston or 2. They checked out the tolerances, and said it was still in spec so I didn't need a bore. I had them clean the block, hone the cylinders, new cam bearings, freeze plugs. Cost somewhere around 150 or so. (Price will change with area) Then I got a new set of rings, bearings, gaskets, etc. Put it back together and everything is going ok so far. I can't really comment as to if I really fixed the problem or not, as I only started it a week ago and have only put on about 30 miles or so. The rings have seated and it doesn't seem to be smoking like it was before, so I think that I helped. I need to get some more miles on it before I can really say for sure.

------------------
91 GT, AOD, 373, K&N, Flows, Off Road H, soon subs and control arms.

Nicks5.0 · 02-16-2001, 03:40 AM

im sure everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, so here's mine...
the completeness of the rebuild depends on your intended use(racing, daily, if you need another 100k out of it, etc..) and how it was taken care. i tore mine apart at 109k and all the internals were in great shape. you need to find a quality shop, first of all. speak to them and have the block cleand and magnufluxed, have them check the bores(if you are on a budget and dont need a bore, dont get one, it will save you the cost of a set of slugs) same thing with the crank, have its tolerances checked and if need be, have it turned down, if everything is fine, have it polished. alot of people consider having the rod bolts upgraded manditory and the same thing with balancing(the shop will need pistons, crank, rods and flexplate and possibly balancer) but these procedures add to the cost obviously. my opinion is that you can always bolt on new heads or a cam, etc...so do the short block right the first time. also, after all is said and done with the machining, sometimes a stroker short block isnt that much more(they start around 2grand), but if you feel everything is fine, a new set of rings and bearings are pretty damned cheap. sorry this is so long, but i hope it helps you out, nick
oh, just in case you didnt know, a 306 would be a .03 overbore on your current 4 inch bore, and would require a new set of pistons

------------------
1990lx coupe, 302, gt40p heads, wolv 1087 cam, 1.7rr's, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, comp box on top of cobra lower, anderson ford pms, full exhaust, drag type susp. and 3.55's. traps 105mph

70stang · 02-16-2001, 10:55 AM

First, get the books mentioned above. Read them from cover to cover, then decide what you want to do. Talk to machine shops about your intentions. Get prices for various machining. After you see the costs, decide if your budget will allow everything you want. If you can afford a complete rebuild, then why not let the shop assemble the engine for you? It only costs about $150 for them to assemble it, but there is nothing like the feeling you get from building your own. If you build it yourself, you will need to purchase a dial indicator, magnetic base, and a set of micrometers. Decent tools will run you about $250 total. I suggest that you always have a machine shop do your head work unless you really know what you are doing. After you bloody all your knuckles and spend the next five days cleaning your block, you may wish you had spent the $100 to have it boiled. Now with the tools you bought, you can go through the step-by-step instructions from the book and check all your measurements with the exception of cylinder taper (tool costs way too much $). Now you can order your parts. Take the block to the shop and have them do all the machine work and press the bearings. If you needed to buy new pistons or rods or a crank (unlikely), then you will need to give these items to the shop to balance them. Now you can put it all back together, but it will take you a month to do it because you don't have a buddy helping you and you have a million questions. Sounds fun right? And here's the kicker, once you build one, you can't wait to start another!

juiceman · 02-16-2001, 07:20 PM

with all that was said i only have one question for you. do you have a very reputable shop near you that will do the machine work. if so the mesuring of parts is not something you need to do. a good machine shop will do the machine work to give you exactly what you need.

LOCASH · 02-16-2001, 08:55 PM

You guys are the best. Thanks a bunch.

macx · 02-17-2001, 01:30 PM

For some good generic tips, check out www.speedomotive.com, their engine building tips.

02-14-2001, 07:14 PM	#1
LOCASH Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Santa Lucia di Budoia, Italy Posts: 217	QUESTIONS ABOUT BUILDING MOTORS Having a professional do it is not an option so here we go...How does this work? Do I tear it apart and measure everything to order the rebuild kit or do I order the rebuild kit and have everything machined to fit it? I see bearings with measurements but how do I know which ones I need? I would like to make a 306 but I am a bit confused. I have done all of my own mods but I have never built an engine before. Hope this isn't to general. Thanks in advance. ------------------ 86 GT T-tops, AOD, B&M shift kit and hammer shifter, ROH wheels, K&N, Timing,MAC headers, 2.5 off road H, 2.5 American Thunder, 87 spindles, rear disc,SS lines, BBK 1.5, poly bushings, Steeda G-trac and subs, Strut bar. "DRIVE LIKE YOU STOLE IT!"

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02-14-2001, 09:42 PM	#2
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	your saying you would pull your motor and then take it apart and rebuild it? If so, i think that you want to take it apart first to see if the block needs to be machined. Be prepared to pay some money for machine work though. Also, look into getting a book by Tom Monroe, he wrote two that i know of, "building small block fords" and "Engine Builder's handbook." I have the latter and it is VERY detaile (good).

02-14-2001, 11:51 PM	#3
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	So whats your rebuild budget LOCASH? Basic block prep wouldn't be more than 500 bucks (always seemed in the 300 range if I remeber correctly), but a bored/honed/aligned block does add to total cost, cause if the bores have to be bored then you'll need new pistons. My advice (and this is probably about as going cold turkey on crack ) is to set aside some money. The best way to save is to get a notebook and put together a pricelist. Then get your engine sorted out. In the long run you'll be bucks ahead in my opinion (and power too). Gargage rebuilds can get the job done(successfully), but if you don't have access to all the tools you need, then by nessecity there will be comprimise which reduces longevity/power. If I were going to do the rebuild on a limited budget I would; 1. Get the block machined (bored/honed/aligned/decked, and all of these operations might not be nessecary) 2. Check the crank and see if it needed to be turned (and get it at least polished) 3. Get it mocked up to make sure things fit (like the pistons are down correctly in the bore, etc) Then go from there, once the short block has been set-up, the rest is pretty much a cake walk. You can check piston to valve clearence, degree in your own cam, check valve geometry, etc. yourself.

02-15-2001, 01:58 AM	#4
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	When taking apart mark all of the rods and keep the rod cap with that rod,direction of rod to. Take the crank,rods and block to the shop. Unless your going to turn massive RPM's, resizing your old rods and turning your crank will work fine. Have rods and crank balanced. When the shop is finished you will know what size bearings and pistons to get. When putting it back together, plastic gage everything. I always mic everything too. You may want a book on how to assemble engines. There are some little things you need to do. Ie: ring positions etc. Ask the machine shop guys questions on what they think you should do and go to a couple of different ones. At my local shop,resize & balance rods,turn & balance crank,bore engine,install cam bearings, runs around $600.00. This is basic work that at a minimum needs to be done.

02-16-2001, 12:06 AM	#5
Chappy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: West Lafayette, In Posts: 14	I know that some will disagree with me on this one, but I figured I would throw in my opinion. I just got done refreshing my motor. I pulled it cus it was burning oil really bad in one cylinder. I knew it wasn't heads as I had just put new ones one, and it was still fouling plugs like you wouldn't believe. I pulled the motor out, tore it down. Took the block into the machine shop with a piston or 2. They checked out the tolerances, and said it was still in spec so I didn't need a bore. I had them clean the block, hone the cylinders, new cam bearings, freeze plugs. Cost somewhere around 150 or so. (Price will change with area) Then I got a new set of rings, bearings, gaskets, etc. Put it back together and everything is going ok so far. I can't really comment as to if I really fixed the problem or not, as I only started it a week ago and have only put on about 30 miles or so. The rings have seated and it doesn't seem to be smoking like it was before, so I think that I helped. I need to get some more miles on it before I can really say for sure. ------------------ 91 GT, AOD, 373, K&N, Flows, Off Road H, soon subs and control arms.

02-16-2001, 03:40 AM	#6
Nicks5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Belleville Il, USA Posts: 234	im sure everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, so here's mine... the completeness of the rebuild depends on your intended use(racing, daily, if you need another 100k out of it, etc..) and how it was taken care. i tore mine apart at 109k and all the internals were in great shape. you need to find a quality shop, first of all. speak to them and have the block cleand and magnufluxed, have them check the bores(if you are on a budget and dont need a bore, dont get one, it will save you the cost of a set of slugs) same thing with the crank, have its tolerances checked and if need be, have it turned down, if everything is fine, have it polished. alot of people consider having the rod bolts upgraded manditory and the same thing with balancing(the shop will need pistons, crank, rods and flexplate and possibly balancer) but these procedures add to the cost obviously. my opinion is that you can always bolt on new heads or a cam, etc...so do the short block right the first time. also, after all is said and done with the machining, sometimes a stroker short block isnt that much more(they start around 2grand), but if you feel everything is fine, a new set of rings and bearings are pretty damned cheap. sorry this is so long, but i hope it helps you out, nick oh, just in case you didnt know, a 306 would be a .03 overbore on your current 4 inch bore, and would require a new set of pistons ------------------ 1990lx coupe, 302, gt40p heads, wolv 1087 cam, 1.7rr's, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, comp box on top of cobra lower, anderson ford pms, full exhaust, drag type susp. and 3.55's. traps 105mph

02-16-2001, 10:55 AM	#7
70stang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Twelve Mile, IN USA 46988 Posts: 17	First, get the books mentioned above. Read them from cover to cover, then decide what you want to do. Talk to machine shops about your intentions. Get prices for various machining. After you see the costs, decide if your budget will allow everything you want. If you can afford a complete rebuild, then why not let the shop assemble the engine for you? It only costs about $150 for them to assemble it, but there is nothing like the feeling you get from building your own. If you build it yourself, you will need to purchase a dial indicator, magnetic base, and a set of micrometers. Decent tools will run you about $250 total. I suggest that you always have a machine shop do your head work unless you really know what you are doing. After you bloody all your knuckles and spend the next five days cleaning your block, you may wish you had spent the $100 to have it boiled. Now with the tools you bought, you can go through the step-by-step instructions from the book and check all your measurements with the exception of cylinder taper (tool costs way too much $). Now you can order your parts. Take the block to the shop and have them do all the machine work and press the bearings. If you needed to buy new pistons or rods or a crank (unlikely), then you will need to give these items to the shop to balance them. Now you can put it all back together, but it will take you a month to do it because you don't have a buddy helping you and you have a million questions. Sounds fun right? And here's the kicker, once you build one, you can't wait to start another!

02-16-2001, 07:20 PM	#8
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	with all that was said i only have one question for you. do you have a very reputable shop near you that will do the machine work. if so the mesuring of parts is not something you need to do. a good machine shop will do the machine work to give you exactly what you need.

02-16-2001, 08:55 PM	#9
LOCASH Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Santa Lucia di Budoia, Italy Posts: 217	You guys are the best. Thanks a bunch.

02-17-2001, 01:30 PM	#10
macx Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Gordonville MO USA Posts: 448	For some good generic tips, check out www.speedomotive.com, their engine building tips.