351 swap

galveston · 08-17-2004, 06:34 PM

Hi. I'm new here and looking for advice. I'm interested in swaping a stock 351 W FI into my 87GT 5 speed with A/C and needing to know all the facts on doing this. I allready have a 3" higher hood. Please help!!!! You can also email me .Thanks.

Ieatcamaros · 08-17-2004, 07:02 PM

I am bound to leave something out here. First you need the motor, of course. If you are going to go through all the trouble, I would rebuild one or buy a shortblock. Me, I would build it. You can get a good complete motor out of a F150 and use everything but the upper intake and oil pan. Plus, you will have all the brackets necessary to keep the accessories. I am not for sure on the lower intake. Can someone else vouch for this? I would not use it anyway. I would get the one from trick flow, or use one from the lightning. You will need to get the ford racing 351w fox body swap oil pan. Your 302 pan will not work. The 351 oil pump is longer and wider and will not clear the bottom of the pan without major modification. The oil pan is only $150 from summit. It comes with the pickup tube and dipstick. This is major depending upon what year motor you get. The 351 is a front sump motor and the dipstick tube is in the timing cover. This won't work on a fox body car. Next, you will need some headers. Actually, stock mustang headers will work. I used them myself until I got my longtubes. They will cost you about $230 for shorties and $340 for longtubes. If you get longtubes, you will have to buy a new h/x pipe. Your transmission and bell housing will bolt right up to the 351. If you get an old motor and want to use the t-5, you will need a new flywheel or clutch cause they were 10" clutch then. And they were 28oz imbalance. Your mustang flywheel is 10.5" clutch and 50 oz imbalance. Ram makes a flywheel just for this application ($230). If you get one of the later model motors(81-95), you can use your stock mustang flywheel and clutch. One more thing, if you aren't already mass air, convert now.
It is best to buy a complete motor and use what you need from it. Extra parts are better than not having the one you need. Use stock mustang convertible motor mounts. They let the motor sit a little lower in the car. There are a lot of variables here. How much you looking to spend? Will you be doing the work yourself? This is an easy swap, trust me.

galveston · 08-17-2004, 07:11 PM

Thanks for your help. I thought if I stayed as close to the same year as my car it should help to. I may ask more questions later.....Thanks again.

88fivepointoh · 08-17-2004, 10:01 PM

Ask away.. Thats what were here for, oh yea one thing you should know, Is the 351 is going to be alot more fun to drive... If you get traction of course.

ols0051 · 08-17-2004, 10:30 PM

Is it worth it to go with the 351? Sounds like a can of worms. Why not just build a 302 based motor with a little more snort? Doesn't the 351 weigh about an extra 100lbs. It also seems like all the parts for the 351 cost more and there isn't that much available for them anyway? I'm not trying to knock the 351, but is it worth it? I could see if you were going to stroke it. I'm kind of interested too about this being I just picked up a 88 hatch that needs everything....I was thinking of sticking with a 306.

whitepony · 08-17-2004, 10:33 PM

sorry to but in but an 80-90 f-150's have 351's??
this may be a stupid question but iam gunna ask anyway will the cam i have in my 302 (ford's f-cam) will it fit in the 351??and will my gt40-ps fit??
and just one more thing
if my heads and cam will fit will i make more power in the 351 or in my 302 , and will i make more power in a carb or efi??

thanks

p.s. sorry to but in galveston.

galveston · 08-17-2004, 10:43 PM

Hey I don't mind at all. I need to learn all I can.

galveston · 08-17-2004, 10:46 PM

Another question I have would anyone happen to know the base HP and torque of a FI 351? Thanks.

red82gt · 08-17-2004, 11:50 PM

A stock 351W is nothing special aside from the one in the 95 cobra R. That one made 300+hp and 340 lbs/ft of torque. The late model (94-95) truck motors made 230 hp and 310 ft/lbs of torque with a rollercam. The 94-95 lightnings made 240 hp and something like 320lbs/ft. with GT-40 heads and a GT-40 manifold but were saddled with a very mild flat tappet cam. With just a cam swap, lightnings made an easy 30hp extra.
The torque curve of the 351 starts nice and early, but in stock form it signed off early due to poor breathing parts.

As for there not being many 351W parts, well, just about any 5.0L head will bolt onto a 351W, there are pages of camshafts available for these motors too, just as many carb intakes and a handfull of excellent EFI manifolds as well. This motor is going to make 15% more torque than a 302 with the same parts across the board until the top end, where the extra 49 cubic inches will have already used up the airflow.

Ieatcamaros · 08-19-2004, 12:17 AM

Stock for stock, keep the 302. Take the money you would to put the 351 in and build the 302. But if you are wanting to build a nice street rod the 351 is a good start. With 10.5:1 compression, good heads, cam and intake, along with some 3.73 or numerically higher gears, you would have a helluva ride. Just as long as the cam, intake and heads match each other. I am a carb guy myself. I like the simplicity of it. And the less jumbled up engine bay. But one will not make noticeable power over the other. It is all in the tuning.

The f cam will work in a 351 as long as the 351 is a roller motor. Or you will have to convert it to the roller setup. Not hard at all either. 302 heads (stock) have to have the head bolts drilled out for the larger 1/2" head bolts the 351 uses. The 302 uses 7/16" bolts. Some of the aftermarket heads also are drilled for the 302's as well. I don't know what the p heads are drilled for. My guess is you will have to drill them out. A machine shop can do this for about $30.

The 351 swap only sounds like a can of worms. It really is easy. It is all in what you want as to whether or not it is worth it. I say it is well worth it cause of the torque curve of the 351. Remember, torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants. That is why gear changes are so popular. And 1/2 of the 302 parts fit the 351 as well. Water pump, starter, bell housing, transmission, some accessory brackets, valve covers, timing cover, harmonic balancer (depends on year but the snout diameter is the same) flywheel, lifters, camshaft, piston rings, heads, and although they won't interchange, the oil pan bolt pattern is the same too.

Hope this helps you with your decison.

whitepony · 08-19-2004, 09:00 AM

what does it take to make a 351 a roller motor??
i am gunna build a 351 later this year for next summer and this is waht i am going to be useing

stock 351
my f-cam
gt40p heads
and i am woundering if i should go carb or efi??
what will i make more power in??
and out back a set of 3.73's

my current setup is.
with stock ported intake
stock heads with 3 angle valve job and shaved .
65mm thb
headers
and 3.73's

if i build the 351 the way i said above will it be better then my set up now???

thanks
everyone

Ieatcamaros · 08-19-2004, 09:25 AM

I don't know that you will make that much more power. Depends on if you gain or lose compression. If you didn't lose compression, you will make more power. Not a whole lot though. You have got some bottlenecks on there. For a 351, you really need some better heads. I am one to persuade one to go carb over efi. That is just me. Fuel injection is nice when the parts match. But you can build a carbed motor a lot cheaper. Even though you have most of what it takes to do it. An intake and carburetor are going to cost $500 at least. A trick flow 351 intake costs about the same. The difference in your case would be in the distributors. You can get a carb (not points either) distributor from the parts stores for like $50. It will cost you $100 for the fuelie's distributor. But when you go carbed, you have a lot more work to do. You have to take out the electric fuel pump from the gas tank and either make one or buy a new sump for it. Then you have to do all that wiring for the electronic ignition. Get a magnetic pickup(electronic in layman's terms) dizzy and use msd or the durasparkII. Then you either have to get the right timing cover and cam eccentric or use an electric fuel pump. Thats the most of it. Read here for more details.

galveston · 08-19-2004, 02:32 PM

Just wanted to say thnks for everyones help on this.....Steve

galveston · 08-21-2004, 10:53 AM

I was wondering if any one could let me know if FI can be used on an older carberated 351. I'm sure it's obvious intake switch but what else would be involved?

galveston · 08-22-2004, 10:00 AM

Ok, I have another question. I've come across a "non" Ho 5.0.
I know theirs a few differances from the HO. The HO 5.0 I have in my car is great but if i can't find a 5.8 Windsor, can this "non" HO 5.0 still be built up? I'm wanting to take my original engine out to do a mild overhaul someday but wanting to build up this non HO that I can get now. I'd like to build this "non" 5.0 to around 300 hp. Any suggestions? Thanks.

88fivepointoh · 08-22-2004, 02:22 PM

I believe nothing but the Block Casting can be used, crank and all internals are different. I would try to find HO motor, ebay is a good source. www.ebay.com

08-17-2004, 06:34 PM	#1
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	351 swap Hi. I'm new here and looking for advice. I'm interested in swaping a stock 351 W FI into my 87GT 5 speed with A/C and needing to know all the facts on doing this. I allready have a 3" higher hood. Please help!!!! You can also email me .Thanks.

08-17-2004, 07:02 PM	#2
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	I am bound to leave something out here. First you need the motor, of course. If you are going to go through all the trouble, I would rebuild one or buy a shortblock. Me, I would build it. You can get a good complete motor out of a F150 and use everything but the upper intake and oil pan. Plus, you will have all the brackets necessary to keep the accessories. I am not for sure on the lower intake. Can someone else vouch for this? I would not use it anyway. I would get the one from trick flow, or use one from the lightning. You will need to get the ford racing 351w fox body swap oil pan. Your 302 pan will not work. The 351 oil pump is longer and wider and will not clear the bottom of the pan without major modification. The oil pan is only $150 from summit. It comes with the pickup tube and dipstick. This is major depending upon what year motor you get. The 351 is a front sump motor and the dipstick tube is in the timing cover. This won't work on a fox body car. Next, you will need some headers. Actually, stock mustang headers will work. I used them myself until I got my longtubes. They will cost you about $230 for shorties and $340 for longtubes. If you get longtubes, you will have to buy a new h/x pipe. Your transmission and bell housing will bolt right up to the 351. If you get an old motor and want to use the t-5, you will need a new flywheel or clutch cause they were 10" clutch then. And they were 28oz imbalance. Your mustang flywheel is 10.5" clutch and 50 oz imbalance. Ram makes a flywheel just for this application ($230). If you get one of the later model motors(81-95), you can use your stock mustang flywheel and clutch. One more thing, if you aren't already mass air, convert now. It is best to buy a complete motor and use what you need from it. Extra parts are better than not having the one you need. Use stock mustang convertible motor mounts. They let the motor sit a little lower in the car. There are a lot of variables here. How much you looking to spend? Will you be doing the work yourself? This is an easy swap, trust me. __________________ The sig says it all.

08-17-2004, 07:11 PM	#3
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	Thanks Thanks for your help. I thought if I stayed as close to the same year as my car it should help to. I may ask more questions later.....Thanks again.

08-17-2004, 10:43 PM	#7
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	No problem.. Hey I don't mind at all. I need to learn all I can.

08-17-2004, 10:46 PM	#8
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	HP? Another question I have would anyone happen to know the base HP and torque of a FI 351? Thanks.

08-17-2004, 10:01 PM	#4
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	Ask away.. Thats what were here for, oh yea one thing you should know, Is the 351 is going to be alot more fun to drive... If you get traction of course.

08-17-2004, 10:30 PM	#5
ols0051 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: cent.wis Posts: 203	Is it worth it to go with the 351? Sounds like a can of worms. Why not just build a 302 based motor with a little more snort? Doesn't the 351 weigh about an extra 100lbs. It also seems like all the parts for the 351 cost more and there isn't that much available for them anyway? I'm not trying to knock the 351, but is it worth it? I could see if you were going to stroke it. I'm kind of interested too about this being I just picked up a 88 hatch that needs everything....I was thinking of sticking with a 306.

08-17-2004, 10:33 PM	#6
whitepony Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: ontario canada Posts: 165	sorry to but in but an 80-90 f-150's have 351's?? this may be a stupid question but iam gunna ask anyway will the cam i have in my 302 (ford's f-cam) will it fit in the 351??and will my gt40-ps fit?? and just one more thing if my heads and cam will fit will i make more power in the 351 or in my 302 , and will i make more power in a carb or efi?? thanks p.s. sorry to but in galveston.

08-17-2004, 11:50 PM	#9
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	A stock 351W is nothing special aside from the one in the 95 cobra R. That one made 300+hp and 340 lbs/ft of torque. The late model (94-95) truck motors made 230 hp and 310 ft/lbs of torque with a rollercam. The 94-95 lightnings made 240 hp and something like 320lbs/ft. with GT-40 heads and a GT-40 manifold but were saddled with a very mild flat tappet cam. With just a cam swap, lightnings made an easy 30hp extra. The torque curve of the 351 starts nice and early, but in stock form it signed off early due to poor breathing parts. As for there not being many 351W parts, well, just about any 5.0L head will bolt onto a 351W, there are pages of camshafts available for these motors too, just as many carb intakes and a handfull of excellent EFI manifolds as well. This motor is going to make 15% more torque than a 302 with the same parts across the board until the top end, where the extra 49 cubic inches will have already used up the airflow. __________________ 393W: AFR 205's, hydraulic roller, TKO600.

08-19-2004, 12:17 AM	#10
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Stock for stock, keep the 302. Take the money you would to put the 351 in and build the 302. But if you are wanting to build a nice street rod the 351 is a good start. With 10.5:1 compression, good heads, cam and intake, along with some 3.73 or numerically higher gears, you would have a helluva ride. Just as long as the cam, intake and heads match each other. I am a carb guy myself. I like the simplicity of it. And the less jumbled up engine bay. But one will not make noticeable power over the other. It is all in the tuning. The f cam will work in a 351 as long as the 351 is a roller motor. Or you will have to convert it to the roller setup. Not hard at all either. 302 heads (stock) have to have the head bolts drilled out for the larger 1/2" head bolts the 351 uses. The 302 uses 7/16" bolts. Some of the aftermarket heads also are drilled for the 302's as well. I don't know what the p heads are drilled for. My guess is you will have to drill them out. A machine shop can do this for about $30. The 351 swap only sounds like a can of worms. It really is easy. It is all in what you want as to whether or not it is worth it. I say it is well worth it cause of the torque curve of the 351. Remember, torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants. That is why gear changes are so popular. And 1/2 of the 302 parts fit the 351 as well. Water pump, starter, bell housing, transmission, some accessory brackets, valve covers, timing cover, harmonic balancer (depends on year but the snout diameter is the same) flywheel, lifters, camshaft, piston rings, heads, and although they won't interchange, the oil pan bolt pattern is the same too. Hope this helps you with your decison. __________________ The sig says it all.

08-19-2004, 09:00 AM	#11
whitepony Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: ontario canada Posts: 165	what does it take to make a 351 a roller motor?? i am gunna build a 351 later this year for next summer and this is waht i am going to be useing stock 351 my f-cam gt40p heads and i am woundering if i should go carb or efi?? what will i make more power in?? and out back a set of 3.73's my current setup is. with stock ported intake stock heads with 3 angle valve job and shaved . 65mm thb headers and 3.73's if i build the 351 the way i said above will it be better then my set up now??? thanks everyone

08-19-2004, 09:25 AM	#12
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	I don't know that you will make that much more power. Depends on if you gain or lose compression. If you didn't lose compression, you will make more power. Not a whole lot though. You have got some bottlenecks on there. For a 351, you really need some better heads. I am one to persuade one to go carb over efi. That is just me. Fuel injection is nice when the parts match. But you can build a carbed motor a lot cheaper. Even though you have most of what it takes to do it. An intake and carburetor are going to cost $500 at least. A trick flow 351 intake costs about the same. The difference in your case would be in the distributors. You can get a carb (not points either) distributor from the parts stores for like $50. It will cost you $100 for the fuelie's distributor. But when you go carbed, you have a lot more work to do. You have to take out the electric fuel pump from the gas tank and either make one or buy a new sump for it. Then you have to do all that wiring for the electronic ignition. Get a magnetic pickup(electronic in layman's terms) dizzy and use msd or the durasparkII. Then you either have to get the right timing cover and cam eccentric or use an electric fuel pump. Thats the most of it. Read here for more details. __________________ The sig says it all.

08-19-2004, 02:32 PM	#13
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	Thanks.. Just wanted to say thnks for everyones help on this.....Steve

08-21-2004, 10:53 AM	#14
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	351 I was wondering if any one could let me know if FI can be used on an older carberated 351. I'm sure it's obvious intake switch but what else would be involved?

08-22-2004, 10:00 AM	#15
galveston Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bend Oregon Posts: 22	non Ho 5.0 Ok, I have another question. I've come across a "non" Ho 5.0. I know theirs a few differances from the HO. The HO 5.0 I have in my car is great but if i can't find a 5.8 Windsor, can this "non" HO 5.0 still be built up? I'm wanting to take my original engine out to do a mild overhaul someday but wanting to build up this non HO that I can get now. I'd like to build this "non" 5.0 to around 300 hp. Any suggestions? Thanks.

08-22-2004, 02:22 PM	#16
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	I believe nothing but the Block Casting can be used, crank and all internals are different. I would try to find HO motor, ebay is a good source. www.ebay.com

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