Got first 1/4 time with new AFR heads and cam- have tuning questions

Killercanary · 07-09-2001, 08:50 PM

Well I made my first trip to the track with the new AFR setup. My setup is as follows: AFR 165/60cc heads
FTI custom cam
Edelbrock performer intake
shorty headers
offroad X pipe
flowmasters
pulleys
75mm Pro-M
24lb injectors
190lph pump
1.6 rockers
4.10 gears

Before the cam, heads, MAF, injectors, rockers, and fuel pump I went 13.83 at 98.55mph with a 1.91 60'. On my first trip out with the new setup I hotlapped two 102.7-102.8mph passes with a 14.0 and 13.96 second ET. The last pass netted a 13.67 at 103.3. Now these times were made with really babying the car as I'm having tremendous tranny vibrations above 4500rpms, even though I just had it rebuilt. This being the case I didn't want to beat it and bend it worse than it is as I plan to take it back to the guy that did it and see why its vibrating so bad. Anyway, I have no idea where to set the timing and fuel pressure. I have them currently at 13* timing and 38lbs of fuel without the vacuum line. Now the other day in traffic I got a check engine light and the code came up as a lean condition- I must be pretty lean for this to happen as I was lean with my old setup on the dyno and never tripped a check engine light. I didn't have a timing light or tools to bump the fuel pressure at the track, though the next time out I will. I know this car will go 105mph with some tuning and more aggressive driving- and this is a convertible!!! I just wanted some suggestions as for a new starting point for the fuel pressure and timing.

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95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

90dpscoupe · 07-09-2001, 09:04 PM

hey canary, how much did you pay for your t-5 rebuild? nice combo

you should be turning 105-106 mph easy.

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90 lx coupe: 175k miles, steeda water pump pully, hurst shifter, Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil, ADS chip, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs.
Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph: 98.17
Best 60': 1.9607

next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

Killercanary · 07-09-2001, 09:15 PM

Well it cost me $200. That was for a used main shaft and a whole slew of other things. I can't remember off the top of my head, but they are all written on the repair slip. I had a guy do it that rebuilds trannies and rear ends on the side. His work is excellent. He has installed my 3.73's and 4.10's, my dad's 3.55's and 3.73's, and three sets of gears for my cousin. All we top notch with no noise. This is the second time he has rebuilt my tranny with a new main shaft as I always seem to bend them! Thanks for the complement on the setup, it finally seems worth all the work.

TM88GT · 07-10-2001, 10:13 AM

The tranny vibe may be due to bad mounts. Were they replaced? As far as tune - 13 degress is not enough. I'd increase base timing to at least 16 degress, and up the base fuel pressure to 40-41psi (no vacuum). You should be in the 106-108 mph range when you get it all dialed in.

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TM88GT

90dpscoupe · 07-10-2001, 10:45 AM

hmm, im gonna have to pay 425 for a rebuild, sheesh,

anyway your car is pretty fast, a guy that lives over here, and post on this board sometimes, "blkrain" has a 95 hardtop, it had the holley systmnax heads, intake, afb cam, and 3.73's running times like yours, on street tires he was running 13.5-13.8 around 105, but he also had an ignition and was shifting probaly around 6-6200 rpm.

Rick 91GT · 07-10-2001, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TM88GT:
The tranny vibe may be due to bad mounts. Were they replaced? As far as tune - 13 degress is not enough. I'd increase base timing to at least 16 degress, and up the base fuel pressure to 40-41psi (no vacuum). You should be in the 106-108 mph range when you get it all dialed in.

Paul, been awhile I have been waiting for this post. Yeah I agree I would think you could get a little more mph, the thing that will hold you back is the weight of the vert. Good to see you finally got that thing done and out, it always feels great! Hows your dads car coming? I am waitng to install my STAR Spec III clutch, since this one isn't holding up and was slipping on my 12.16 pass...

90dpscoupe James aka:blkrain had to sell his car, but I think he took all the parts off not really sure if he has them anymore or not. He was able to get it in the 12's with decent mph before he got rid of it though.

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Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

Dark Knight · 07-10-2001, 03:05 PM

more fuel and timing..my AFR's liked a few more than 14*, I think it was around 17-18* ;-)
BTW, I finally put some headers on mine.. woke it up.. intake change this week and dyno on Sat.
the 13.85@ 102.5 was with a 2.22 60ft and 106* air temp..think with the intake I should be around 105-106... not bad for the stock cam..

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84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
13.85@102.5
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)

jimberg · 07-10-2001, 04:23 PM

When's the last time you replaced the O2 sensors? There is no way you should be lean with 24# injectors at stock fuel pressure in traffic. There's something wrong there. When you say that you're at 38psi without vacuum line, I'm assuming that that's for the purpose of taking the reading and that you have the vacuum line still hooked up for every day use.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Skyman · 07-10-2001, 04:44 PM

Do you have a stock throttle body? I noticed you didn't mention that. Thats a MPH atleast there.

Also what are you cam specs. The performer intake makes peak power around 5500. If thats a higher revving cam, you should go with the RPM upper.

Also where are you shifting, and playing with the shift points can gain a bit more mph.

I have run anywhere from 16-21 degrees initial timing with my TFS TW heads. I know you have more compression, but definatly try 16, with 40psi w/ the vacume off.

Play with it from there.

SKy

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20.
12.54@107.4 Motor
1.69 60'

Killercanary · 07-12-2001, 11:36 PM

Oh so close..... When I set out with this buildup I was shooting for a trap speed of 105mph. Well tonight after bumping the fuel pressure up to 40lbs w/o vacuum and with 15* timing I came very close. Here's the run;
R/T: .530
60': 2.023
330: 5.757
1/8: 8.808
MPH: 80.20
1000: 11.405
1/4: 13.570
mph: 104.48

104.48- that's damn close to my original goal, and this is only the second time out with the car, I still don't know where to shift it exactly and where the best place for the fuel and timing are. Heck, I'm still running the stock flow tubes and tailpipes, maybe if I ditch them for 2.5" units I'll gain enough to put me at 105mph. I have a used set of dynomax welded race magnums to stick on as I've been told that I'll get a tiny bit more out of them than the 2 chamber flowmasters that are on it now with the X pipe. Plus I hate the "tingy" sound that comes from the flowmasters now. Well, what do you guys think? Again I'm impressed with my 'ol heavy convertible. I think I'm really getting close to my 350FWHP number I set out for.

Sky- I have a FRPP 65mm T-body and I'm shifting at 5500, I wanted to try a little more but I went 104.3mph on my second run shifting at 5500 and I didn't want to change anything because it was running so well, maybe next time I'll try 5800.

jimberg · 07-12-2001, 11:48 PM

Killercanary, be done with the fuel issues and set your fuel pressure at 50-55. Don't worry, the computer will adapt but you will have plenty of fuel.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

moponys · 07-13-2001, 01:54 PM

Hello Killer Canary:

I basically have the same setup as you on a 94 GT. Do you know what the stock timing is set at and if the timing is off, could that cause some detonation?

Rick 91GT · 07-13-2001, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moponys:
Hello Killer Canary:

I basically have the same setup as you on a 94 GT. Do you know what the stock timing is set at and if the timing is off, could that cause some detonation?

Well Im not Paul,

but the stock base timing is 10 degrees with the spout connector removed. If you have too much timing and not enough octane it will ping and cause detonation.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

07-09-2001, 08:50 PM	#1
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Got first 1/4 time with new AFR heads and cam- have tuning questions Well I made my first trip to the track with the new AFR setup. My setup is as follows: AFR 165/60cc heads FTI custom cam Edelbrock performer intake shorty headers offroad X pipe flowmasters pulleys 75mm Pro-M 24lb injectors 190lph pump 1.6 rockers 4.10 gears Before the cam, heads, MAF, injectors, rockers, and fuel pump I went 13.83 at 98.55mph with a 1.91 60'. On my first trip out with the new setup I hotlapped two 102.7-102.8mph passes with a 14.0 and 13.96 second ET. The last pass netted a 13.67 at 103.3. Now these times were made with really babying the car as I'm having tremendous tranny vibrations above 4500rpms, even though I just had it rebuilt. This being the case I didn't want to beat it and bend it worse than it is as I plan to take it back to the guy that did it and see why its vibrating so bad. Anyway, I have no idea where to set the timing and fuel pressure. I have them currently at 13* timing and 38lbs of fuel without the vacuum line. Now the other day in traffic I got a check engine light and the code came up as a lean condition- I must be pretty lean for this to happen as I was lean with my old setup on the dyno and never tripped a check engine light. I didn't have a timing light or tools to bump the fuel pressure at the track, though the next time out I will. I know this car will go 105mph with some tuning and more aggressive driving- and this is a convertible!!! I just wanted some suggestions as for a new starting point for the fuel pressure and timing. ------------------ 95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior Best ET: 13.83 Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

07-09-2001, 09:04 PM	#2
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	hey canary, how much did you pay for your t-5 rebuild? nice combo you should be turning 105-106 mph easy. ------------------ 90 lx coupe: 175k miles, steeda water pump pully, hurst shifter, Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil, ADS chip, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs. Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph: 98.17 Best 60': 1.9607 next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

07-09-2001, 09:15 PM	#3
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Well it cost me $200. That was for a used main shaft and a whole slew of other things. I can't remember off the top of my head, but they are all written on the repair slip. I had a guy do it that rebuilds trannies and rear ends on the side. His work is excellent. He has installed my 3.73's and 4.10's, my dad's 3.55's and 3.73's, and three sets of gears for my cousin. All we top notch with no noise. This is the second time he has rebuilt my tranny with a new main shaft as I always seem to bend them! Thanks for the complement on the setup, it finally seems worth all the work.

07-10-2001, 10:13 AM	#4
TM88GT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Hayward, CA USA Posts: 295	The tranny vibe may be due to bad mounts. Were they replaced? As far as tune - 13 degress is not enough. I'd increase base timing to at least 16 degress, and up the base fuel pressure to 40-41psi (no vacuum). You should be in the 106-108 mph range when you get it all dialed in. ------------------ TM88GT

07-10-2001, 10:45 AM	#5
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	hmm, im gonna have to pay 425 for a rebuild, sheesh, anyway your car is pretty fast, a guy that lives over here, and post on this board sometimes, "blkrain" has a 95 hardtop, it had the holley systmnax heads, intake, afb cam, and 3.73's running times like yours, on street tires he was running 13.5-13.8 around 105, but he also had an ignition and was shifting probaly around 6-6200 rpm.

07-10-2001, 03:05 PM	#7
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	more fuel and timing..my AFR's liked a few more than 14, I think it was around 17-18 ;-) BTW, I finally put some headers on mine.. woke it up.. intake change this week and dyno on Sat. the 13.85@ 102.5 was with a 2.22 60ft and 106* air temp..think with the intake I should be around 105-106... not bad for the stock cam.. ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.85@102.5 and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)

07-10-2001, 04:23 PM	#8
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	When's the last time you replaced the O2 sensors? There is no way you should be lean with 24# injectors at stock fuel pressure in traffic. There's something wrong there. When you say that you're at 38psi without vacuum line, I'm assuming that that's for the purpose of taking the reading and that you have the vacuum line still hooked up for every day use. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-10-2001, 04:44 PM	#9
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Do you have a stock throttle body? I noticed you didn't mention that. Thats a MPH atleast there. Also what are you cam specs. The performer intake makes peak power around 5500. If thats a higher revving cam, you should go with the RPM upper. Also where are you shifting, and playing with the shift points can gain a bit more mph. I have run anywhere from 16-21 degrees initial timing with my TFS TW heads. I know you have more compression, but definatly try 16, with 40psi w/ the vacume off. Play with it from there. SKy ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor 1.69 60'

07-12-2001, 11:36 PM	#10
Killercanary Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 336	Oh so close..... When I set out with this buildup I was shooting for a trap speed of 105mph. Well tonight after bumping the fuel pressure up to 40lbs w/o vacuum and with 15* timing I came very close. Here's the run; R/T: .530 60': 2.023 330: 5.757 1/8: 8.808 MPH: 80.20 1000: 11.405 1/4: 13.570 mph: 104.48 104.48- that's damn close to my original goal, and this is only the second time out with the car, I still don't know where to shift it exactly and where the best place for the fuel and timing are. Heck, I'm still running the stock flow tubes and tailpipes, maybe if I ditch them for 2.5" units I'll gain enough to put me at 105mph. I have a used set of dynomax welded race magnums to stick on as I've been told that I'll get a tiny bit more out of them than the 2 chamber flowmasters that are on it now with the X pipe. Plus I hate the "tingy" sound that comes from the flowmasters now. Well, what do you guys think? Again I'm impressed with my 'ol heavy convertible. I think I'm really getting close to my 350FWHP number I set out for. Sky- I have a FRPP 65mm T-body and I'm shifting at 5500, I wanted to try a little more but I went 104.3mph on my second run shifting at 5500 and I didn't want to change anything because it was running so well, maybe next time I'll try 5800.

07-12-2001, 11:48 PM	#11
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Killercanary, be done with the fuel issues and set your fuel pressure at 50-55. Don't worry, the computer will adapt but you will have plenty of fuel. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-13-2001, 01:54 PM	#12
moponys Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Antioch, CA 94521 Posts: 181	Hello Killer Canary: I basically have the same setup as you on a 94 GT. Do you know what the stock timing is set at and if the timing is off, could that cause some detonation?