408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done?

lucheski · 03-31-2005, 07:34 PM

I am gathering parts for a 408 for a Fox

My goals:
550 Flywheel
6500 Redline
Emissions Legal (they just started this in my County Confused)
Moderate Streetability as will be a daily driver
(Dont care about "low end torque", what lower gears for right?)

Part I Already Have and Want to use:
SVO N-351 Heads (2.05/1.60 Valves, Isky Springs, CNC-ed, 275/225CFM)
F303 Cam

Parts I am considering getting

1-7/8 Longtubes Headers, (Hoping to find some bolt ons for the n351 heads if they exist)
Catted X-pipe?
3" all the way back?

Edelbrock Performer 800CFM Carburetor $350
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=EDL%2D1413

SBC Eagle 6.200" Connecting Rods $250
http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=567

Edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake Manifold $300
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=EDL%2D2980&N

Eagle Cast 4.00 "408" Crankshaft $325
http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=358

Ieatcamaros · 03-31-2005, 08:49 PM

550 is pretty easy, I think. I'd ditch the edelbrock carburetor and get a holley. Then when you get the money, get a quick fuel or proform main body for it. I haven't looked much at stroker kits, but wouldn't it be better to get a complete kit instead of piecing one together? It might not be cheaper but I think you'd be happier in the end if you got a kit from CHP or DSS. I'd probably ditch the F cam and get a custom cam. Don't get me wrong, I love the F cam. You won't be losing any low end torque with the big ol 408 in there. Even with the Victor intake, it'll still have plenty. Kook's headers will probably be your best bet for 1 7/8" or larger to fit a fox chassis. I can't help you with emissions, we don't do that here.

HotRoddin · 03-31-2005, 09:25 PM

I've been wrong before (even though I rarely admit it

), but I'd say you're gonna have to dig a little deeper into your wallet than that to see 550 HP normally asperated.

PS: I think you'll find the stroker kits are quite a bit cheaper than buying a piece at a time, not to mention if you get it from someone reputable, they've already done the research on the compatibility of the parts, and how well they work together.

lucheski · 03-31-2005, 11:57 PM

what do you suggest I need to change or add?

I will be dropping the F303 for a Custom cam

~The Jester~ · 04-01-2005, 09:44 AM

The F303 cam is bad azz, but it's not gonna do what you're looking for. www.cammotion.com They'll fix you up.

Get a stroker kit from DSS, CHP, or someone reputible. It's cheaper in the long run. Have them balance it for you before they ship it. Lots of guys forget about that, buy all the pieces to build a stroker, then you have to haul it out to a machine shop to get balanced, it ends up costing you more $$$. You're looking at the 28oz imbalance.

Dump the edelbrock, START with a 800 Holley, and you'll probably need bigger than that when it's all said and done. Have a carb shop massage it for you. That pro-form main body is awesome, that's what I was using last year.

You MIGHT want to consider a Super Victor intake, depending on what your heads are gonna flow. Not familiar with the N-351 heads, so I can't really help there.

Like HotRoddin & the Slo-maro muncher said, 550 is very reachable, but you are gonna have to reach in that pocket a little deeper. Just playing with my desktop dyno on the 408 I'm building, it's about 616hp @ 6500. Heck, I even got my "temporary" 347 up to 592HP @ 7000 so it's a very reachable goal.

Just do some research, and remember that an engine is a "system", ALL the parts have to play nice together.

andy669 · 04-01-2005, 06:32 PM

Definately ditch the Edelbrock carburetor. There can be 50 horsepower lost in the wrong carb. My little 306 makes 1.63 horsepower per cube, and you are only asking for 1.34 with an unlimited selection of parts. The only thing someone hasnt mentioned is those goofy flow numbers you posted. Your heads flow 225 on the exhaust, but only 275 on the intake?

Andy

~The Jester~ · 04-01-2005, 10:04 PM

Yep! That's why I stayed away from those heads. Don't know nuttin' about them, and not sure what they're capable of. But, THAT AIN'T IT! Lot's of guys are having great success with Victor Jr heads, you have NO rules, so Kaase heads are an option, I can hook you up with Canfields, Trick Flow, AFR, the list goes on and on dude.

Your combo is VERY do-able, don't get me wrong. Just need to do a little research. And talk to a bunch of motor-heads like us!

red82gt · 04-02-2005, 02:40 PM

The N351 heads will require an adapter plate or a custom set of headers, although a set of headers for TFS R heads might be close enough to make work. A custom cam will be absolutely necessary to get those heads to work since they are a bit deficient on the intake side. After that, I'm not too sure how you're going to get it to pass smog...Do they do a visual inspection? If so, you're screwed. As far as the edelbrock carb goes, there's a good reason why you don't see them on too many racecars. They do make pleasant daily drivers and hold a tune nicely but when it comes to making power, just look down the throat of the two carbs. It'll be pretty obvious as to which one will have less turbulence.

03-31-2005, 07:34 PM	#1
lucheski Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 21	408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? I am gathering parts for a 408 for a Fox My goals: 550 Flywheel 6500 Redline Emissions Legal (they just started this in my County Confused) Moderate Streetability as will be a daily driver (Dont care about "low end torque", what lower gears for right?) Part I Already Have and Want to use: SVO N-351 Heads (2.05/1.60 Valves, Isky Springs, CNC-ed, 275/225CFM) F303 Cam Parts I am considering getting 1-7/8 Longtubes Headers, (Hoping to find some bolt ons for the n351 heads if they exist) Catted X-pipe? 3" all the way back? Edelbrock Performer 800CFM Carburetor $350 http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=EDL%2D1413 SBC Eagle 6.200" Connecting Rods $250 http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=567 Edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake Manifold $300 http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=EDL%2D2980&N Eagle Cast 4.00 "408" Crankshaft $325 http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=358 __________________ 306,Hyper Pistons,Edelbrock Performer RPM "Typhoon" Intake (Ported), 1969 351W Heads (ported) 60cc combustion chambers machined to 50cc, 10:1 Compression Ratio, F-303 Cam, Harland Sharp 1.6 Ratio Roller Rockers, A9L ECU, 70MM Cobra MAF, 24lb/hr Injectors, MAC Equal Length Headers, MAC Offroad H-Pipe with Flowmaster Mufflers, 3.55 Posi Rearend...dreaming of 12s, need to run it

03-31-2005, 08:49 PM	#2
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? 550 is pretty easy, I think. I'd ditch the edelbrock carburetor and get a holley. Then when you get the money, get a quick fuel or proform main body for it. I haven't looked much at stroker kits, but wouldn't it be better to get a complete kit instead of piecing one together? It might not be cheaper but I think you'd be happier in the end if you got a kit from CHP or DSS. I'd probably ditch the F cam and get a custom cam. Don't get me wrong, I love the F cam. You won't be losing any low end torque with the big ol 408 in there. Even with the Victor intake, it'll still have plenty. Kook's headers will probably be your best bet for 1 7/8" or larger to fit a fox chassis. I can't help you with emissions, we don't do that here. __________________ The sig says it all.

03-31-2005, 09:25 PM	#3
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? I've been wrong before (even though I rarely admit it ), but I'd say you're gonna have to dig a little deeper into your wallet than that to see 550 HP normally asperated. PS: I think you'll find the stroker kits are quite a bit cheaper than buying a piece at a time, not to mention if you get it from someone reputable, they've already done the research on the compatibility of the parts, and how well they work together. __________________ Under Construction: 64 Falcon 372 cu in. stroker 1:72 rod ratio 6.250" rods (long rod), Comp Cams XE274 230/236 520/526 @ .050, Scorpion Rollers, Roush 200 irons, 10:1 Keith Blacks, Hedman long tubes, 750 Holley DP, Edelbrock Victor Jr., C4 3500 stall, gears and tires to be anounced.

03-31-2005, 11:57 PM	#4
lucheski Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 21	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? what do you suggest I need to change or add? I will be dropping the F303 for a Custom cam __________________ 306,Hyper Pistons,Edelbrock Performer RPM "Typhoon" Intake (Ported), 1969 351W Heads (ported) 60cc combustion chambers machined to 50cc, 10:1 Compression Ratio, F-303 Cam, Harland Sharp 1.6 Ratio Roller Rockers, A9L ECU, 70MM Cobra MAF, 24lb/hr Injectors, MAC Equal Length Headers, MAC Offroad H-Pipe with Flowmaster Mufflers, 3.55 Posi Rearend...dreaming of 12s, need to run it

04-01-2005, 09:44 AM	#5
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? The F303 cam is bad azz, but it's not gonna do what you're looking for. www.cammotion.com They'll fix you up. Get a stroker kit from DSS, CHP, or someone reputible. It's cheaper in the long run. Have them balance it for you before they ship it. Lots of guys forget about that, buy all the pieces to build a stroker, then you have to haul it out to a machine shop to get balanced, it ends up costing you more $$$. You're looking at the 28oz imbalance. Dump the edelbrock, START with a 800 Holley, and you'll probably need bigger than that when it's all said and done. Have a carb shop massage it for you. That pro-form main body is awesome, that's what I was using last year. You MIGHT want to consider a Super Victor intake, depending on what your heads are gonna flow. Not familiar with the N-351 heads, so I can't really help there. Like HotRoddin & the Slo-maro muncher said, 550 is very reachable, but you are gonna have to reach in that pocket a little deeper. Just playing with my desktop dyno on the 408 I'm building, it's about 616hp @ 6500. Heck, I even got my "temporary" 347 up to 592HP @ 7000 so it's a very reachable goal. Just do some research, and remember that an engine is a "system", ALL the parts have to play nice together. __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply..... Last edited by ~The Jester~; 04-01-2005 at 06:29 PM..

04-01-2005, 06:32 PM	#6
andy669 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Moline Il Posts: 901	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? Definately ditch the Edelbrock carburetor. There can be 50 horsepower lost in the wrong carb. My little 306 makes 1.63 horsepower per cube, and you are only asking for 1.34 with an unlimited selection of parts. The only thing someone hasnt mentioned is those goofy flow numbers you posted. Your heads flow 225 on the exhaust, but only 275 on the intake? Andy __________________ 88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120

04-01-2005, 10:04 PM	#7
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? Yep! That's why I stayed away from those heads. Don't know nuttin' about them, and not sure what they're capable of. But, THAT AIN'T IT! Lot's of guys are having great success with Victor Jr heads, you have NO rules, so Kaase heads are an option, I can hook you up with Canfields, Trick Flow, AFR, the list goes on and on dude. Your combo is VERY do-able, don't get me wrong. Just need to do a little research. And talk to a bunch of motor-heads like us! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

04-02-2005, 02:40 PM	#8
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	Re: 408 for 550FWHP, Can it be done? The N351 heads will require an adapter plate or a custom set of headers, although a set of headers for TFS R heads might be close enough to make work. A custom cam will be absolutely necessary to get those heads to work since they are a bit deficient on the intake side. After that, I'm not too sure how you're going to get it to pass smog...Do they do a visual inspection? If so, you're screwed. As far as the edelbrock carb goes, there's a good reason why you don't see them on too many racecars. They do make pleasant daily drivers and hold a tune nicely but when it comes to making power, just look down the throat of the two carbs. It'll be pretty obvious as to which one will have less turbulence. __________________ 393W: AFR 205's, hydraulic roller, TKO600.