car turns over but won't start - HELP!

12-31-2000, 04:09 PM

OK, here's the deal. I just replaced the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor on my car. Now it turns over but won't start.

I have a Clifford alarm and pulled the fuse while I was working on the car. The alarm went crazy a few times after replacing the fuse, but I diarmed the alarm, put the fuse back in , entered my code, and the car still won't start.

Now, to make matters worse, my battery is near death from all the cranking...

Anyone have any ideas? The thing ran OK when I started the tune-up. Did I mess something up?

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

QuantumMotorsports · 12-31-2000, 04:18 PM

Most alarms have a starter disable so if it cranks over, I wouldn't think it was the alarm. It's still possible though. Did you maybe get the plug wires in the wrong order on the cap? You didn't pull the distributor when you did the tune up did you? When I rebuilt my engine I put the distributor in 180 degrees off so the timing light was on but it was firing at the wrong TDC so it would not run at all and it made weird sounds. I could not figure it out. Anyway, hope you get it figured out.

------------------
Michael Black
Quantum Motorsports
Norman, Oklahoma

1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny
15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car)
60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

93CobraR · 12-31-2000, 04:44 PM

Yeah, I'm almost positive it's off 180 too. If you don't know how to fix that just ask...

------------------
87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's, long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's.
Best time 13.012
Best MPH 104
Best 60' 1.816

Visit my site at:
http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

12-31-2000, 04:58 PM

Well, I didn't remove the distributor itself, just the cap and rotor. The cap seems to be "idiot proof", as it has that notch on the side that lines up with the notch on the distibutor body. I originally had the wrong firing order but reset that and double-checked it as well. Possible I fried something?

I feel like such an idiot. Done tuneups a thousand times (this is my first on a Mustang) and never had a problem...

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

12-31-2000, 05:53 PM

We checked and the wires are getting spark. Double-checked the firing order and the orientation of the cap. Thinking the problem is fuel. Possible I could've burnt something out or a freaky coincidence?

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

Brian88 · 12-31-2000, 06:31 PM

Did you get mad while working on the car? I could not figure out why my car wouldn't start and my system, 2 10inch JBL's messed up my inertia switch. try reseting that. It is in the back of the car behind the drivers tailight behind some trim.

CO Stang · 01-01-2001, 12:12 AM

If you're getting power to the cap, make sure the tab on top of the rotor is making contact with the cap and sending it to the plugs. If you unpluged the mass air to get to the passenger side plugs make sure it's pluged back in. The car will only run a little while with it unpluged, then it wont start till it's pluged back in. Check the fuel pump too, just put the key in and turn it to run. You should hear it wine for about 3 seconds. If you don't hear it, check the inertia switch in the trunk and the fuse.

------------------
'93 GT
Richmond 3.73 gears, BBK equal length ceramic coated shorties, BBK cat H-pipe, Flowmaster American Thunder cat back, 73mm mass air, BBK 190 lph fuel pump, Hurst shifter, K&N Filter Charger, Center Force Clutch, Aluminum drive shaft.

Darkside · 01-01-2001, 02:56 AM

Check to see if you could have knocked loose the Ecc power relay ground, it the wire coming off the negetive terminal of the battery if the ecc power relay is ground you will have no fuel pump as it the fuel pump relay get its power form the ecc relay.
Army Darkside

01-01-2001, 05:22 PM

Checked the inertia switch and fuel pump fuse and they both look good. I'll try the other things you're mentioning. Thanks, if you have any more ideas keep 'em coming, and Happy New Year.

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 11:05 AM

Well, I still haven't been able to find the problem, so it's going to the shop today. I hate giving up when things are unresolved like this (especially when it's just a freakin' tuneup), but I need the car to get to work. For those that are interested, I'll post the problem when I find it out so that the rest of you might avoid it in the future.

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

AxemanZZ · 01-02-2001, 11:49 AM

Did you adjust the timing? If so did you remove the plug under the distrubuter when you timed it?

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

01-02-2001, 12:39 PM

I did not physically move the timing. That and the fuel filter I was saving until I got all the underhood stuff connected and running (was running out of daylight and planning on doing stuff the next day).

I've tried all of the suggestions posted here (thanks guys), plus reset the alarm, put it in valet mode, pulled both battery terminals to reset the computer, put the old cap and rotor back on, et al. Nothing is working out and I'm frustrated as I've ever been (as fate would have it, I quit smoking yesterday too!).

Ford dealer is looking at it as we speak...

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

AxemanZZ · 01-02-2001, 01:01 PM

I hope you told them that it has to be something simple and they don't rip you off by replacing the distributer or something stupid like that. I has to be either a vacuum line or something silly like that causing your problem since it was running fine before the tuneup.

Sorry to hear of your troubles man, and I wish someone could have helped you with this problem before you had to resort to taking it in to get fixed.

------------------
90 Mustang LX 5.0
My Ride*My Site

01-02-2001, 02:11 PM

That's what I'm thinking as well - that it has to be something small/stupid, and probably something that was done inadvertently. But my bag of tricks is empty.

As far as helping me out don't worry - I was impressed with the speed that people rushed to my aid after my initial post.

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 03:12 PM

OK guys. The madness with which I rang in my New Year has come to an end. Just spoke to the dealer and he said it was indeed the firing order. He said I had the order correct, but off by one or two positions. So you guys were right. I still maintain that I checked this several times over and it looked good, but I suppose anything's possible. When I get it home I'm gonna look at the firing order and compare it to the books I have to see where the mix-up might have occurred.

They took in pretty easy on me, money-wise. What they are charging me let's just call it a stupidity tax. But I implore all of you younger or inexperienced Stangers to replace ONE WIRE AT A TIME when doing a cap and rotor swap. As for myself I'll just say "lesson learned".

Thanks everybody and you can commence flaming me now...

------------------
Greg
91 LX Convertible

jimberg · 01-02-2001, 04:36 PM

You used the HO firing order and not the regular 302, correct? 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. That's with the distributor turning counter-clockwise. Most caps have number 1 stamped on the cap and I just use a Sharpie to mark the rest.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

01-02-2001, 04:43 PM

Correct. The first time I set the cap up with the firing order going clockwise, but I noticed this error right away by the sound the engine was making as it cranked. My Haynes manual had the diagram for the non-H.O and only a listing for the H.O. order. What I did was redraw the diagram using the H.O. firing order, using the #1 terminal as a constant and lining up the cap according to that notch on the side. That might have been my problem - assuming the #1 terminal was the same in both the H.O. and non-H.O. caps. I really don't know. Have to take a look at the "right" order before I can decide where the fatal flaw was made.

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12-31-2000, 04:09 PM	#1
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	car turns over but won't start - HELP! OK, here's the deal. I just replaced the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor on my car. Now it turns over but won't start. I have a Clifford alarm and pulled the fuse while I was working on the car. The alarm went crazy a few times after replacing the fuse, but I diarmed the alarm, put the fuse back in , entered my code, and the car still won't start. Now, to make matters worse, my battery is near death from all the cranking... Anyone have any ideas? The thing ran OK when I started the tune-up. Did I mess something up? ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

12-31-2000, 04:18 PM	#2
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Most alarms have a starter disable so if it cranks over, I wouldn't think it was the alarm. It's still possible though. Did you maybe get the plug wires in the wrong order on the cap? You didn't pull the distributor when you did the tune up did you? When I rebuilt my engine I put the distributor in 180 degrees off so the timing light was on but it was firing at the wrong TDC so it would not run at all and it made weird sounds. I could not figure it out. Anyway, hope you get it figured out. ------------------ Michael Black Quantum Motorsports Norman, Oklahoma 1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny 15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car) 60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

12-31-2000, 04:44 PM	#3
93CobraR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 1,575	Yeah, I'm almost positive it's off 180 too. If you don't know how to fix that just ask... ------------------ 87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's, long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's. Best time 13.012 Best MPH 104 Best 60' 1.816 Visit my site at: http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

12-31-2000, 04:58 PM	#4
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I didn't remove the distributor itself, just the cap and rotor. The cap seems to be "idiot proof", as it has that notch on the side that lines up with the notch on the distibutor body. I originally had the wrong firing order but reset that and double-checked it as well. Possible I fried something? I feel like such an idiot. Done tuneups a thousand times (this is my first on a Mustang) and never had a problem... ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

12-31-2000, 05:53 PM	#5
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	We checked and the wires are getting spark. Double-checked the firing order and the orientation of the cap. Thinking the problem is fuel. Possible I could've burnt something out or a freaky coincidence? ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

12-31-2000, 06:31 PM	#6
Brian88 Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 110	Did you get mad while working on the car? I could not figure out why my car wouldn't start and my system, 2 10inch JBL's messed up my inertia switch. try reseting that. It is in the back of the car behind the drivers tailight behind some trim.

01-01-2001, 12:12 AM	#7
CO Stang Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Loveland, CO, USA Posts: 30	If you're getting power to the cap, make sure the tab on top of the rotor is making contact with the cap and sending it to the plugs. If you unpluged the mass air to get to the passenger side plugs make sure it's pluged back in. The car will only run a little while with it unpluged, then it wont start till it's pluged back in. Check the fuel pump too, just put the key in and turn it to run. You should hear it wine for about 3 seconds. If you don't hear it, check the inertia switch in the trunk and the fuse. ------------------ '93 GT Richmond 3.73 gears, BBK equal length ceramic coated shorties, BBK cat H-pipe, Flowmaster American Thunder cat back, 73mm mass air, BBK 190 lph fuel pump, Hurst shifter, K&N Filter Charger, Center Force Clutch, Aluminum drive shaft.

01-01-2001, 02:56 AM	#8
Darkside Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East Alton Ill. USA!!! Posts: 26	Check to see if you could have knocked loose the Ecc power relay ground, it the wire coming off the negetive terminal of the battery if the ecc power relay is ground you will have no fuel pump as it the fuel pump relay get its power form the ecc relay. Army Darkside

01-01-2001, 05:22 PM	#9
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	Checked the inertia switch and fuel pump fuse and they both look good. I'll try the other things you're mentioning. Thanks, if you have any more ideas keep 'em coming, and Happy New Year. ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 11:05 AM	#10
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I still haven't been able to find the problem, so it's going to the shop today. I hate giving up when things are unresolved like this (especially when it's just a freakin' tuneup), but I need the car to get to work. For those that are interested, I'll post the problem when I find it out so that the rest of you might avoid it in the future. ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 11:49 AM	#11
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	Did you adjust the timing? If so did you remove the plug under the distrubuter when you timed it? ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site

01-02-2001, 12:39 PM	#12
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	I did not physically move the timing. That and the fuel filter I was saving until I got all the underhood stuff connected and running (was running out of daylight and planning on doing stuff the next day). I've tried all of the suggestions posted here (thanks guys), plus reset the alarm, put it in valet mode, pulled both battery terminals to reset the computer, put the old cap and rotor back on, et al. Nothing is working out and I'm frustrated as I've ever been (as fate would have it, I quit smoking yesterday too!). Ford dealer is looking at it as we speak... ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 01:01 PM	#13
AxemanZZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 984	I hope you told them that it has to be something simple and they don't rip you off by replacing the distributer or something stupid like that. I has to be either a vacuum line or something silly like that causing your problem since it was running fine before the tuneup. Sorry to hear of your troubles man, and I wish someone could have helped you with this problem before you had to resort to taking it in to get fixed. ------------------ 90 Mustang LX 5.0 My Ride*My Site

01-02-2001, 02:11 PM	#14
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	That's what I'm thinking as well - that it has to be something small/stupid, and probably something that was done inadvertently. But my bag of tricks is empty. As far as helping me out don't worry - I was impressed with the speed that people rushed to my aid after my initial post. ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 03:12 PM	#15
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	OK guys. The madness with which I rang in my New Year has come to an end. Just spoke to the dealer and he said it was indeed the firing order. He said I had the order correct, but off by one or two positions. So you guys were right. I still maintain that I checked this several times over and it looked good, but I suppose anything's possible. When I get it home I'm gonna look at the firing order and compare it to the books I have to see where the mix-up might have occurred. They took in pretty easy on me, money-wise. What they are charging me let's just call it a stupidity tax. But I implore all of you younger or inexperienced Stangers to replace ONE WIRE AT A TIME when doing a cap and rotor swap. As for myself I'll just say "lesson learned". Thanks everybody and you can commence flaming me now... ------------------ Greg 91 LX Convertible

01-02-2001, 04:36 PM	#16
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You used the HO firing order and not the regular 302, correct? 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. That's with the distributor turning counter-clockwise. Most caps have number 1 stamped on the cap and I just use a Sharpie to mark the rest. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

01-02-2001, 04:43 PM	#17
cleangreenmachine Guest Posts: n/a	Correct. The first time I set the cap up with the firing order going clockwise, but I noticed this error right away by the sound the engine was making as it cranked. My Haynes manual had the diagram for the non-H.O and only a listing for the H.O. order. What I did was redraw the diagram using the H.O. firing order, using the #1 terminal as a constant and lining up the cap according to that notch on the side. That might have been my problem - assuming the #1 terminal was the same in both the H.O. and non-H.O. caps. I really don't know. Have to take a look at the "right" order before I can decide where the fatal flaw was made.