After all normal bolt-ons... cylinder head questions

RED92LX50 · 06-12-2003, 12:09 PM

Hi,

I have finished most of the standard bolt-ons on my car (gears, exhaust, pulleys, MAF, TB, gauges) with the exception of heads/cam/intake. I think I want to keep my stock cam for drivability and emissions.

So I am looking at heads and intake - I am getting confused about stud-mount rockers versus pedestal mount rockers, I know the head will only accept one kind, but I am seeing things like guideplates and hardened pushrods associated with stud-mount, but not mentioned with pedestal mount.

Then there are the lifters... are they all hydraulic, will my stock ones be sufficient (and work with either style rocker).

Then, with the rockers, I see 1.7 or 1.6 is used most often, but some experience clearance issues under the valve covers with 1.7...

Basically, I would like to know my options (cost & reliability - mostly street, but not a daily driver) for putting together a nice complete Heads/Intake package on a mostly stock 5.0 with exhaust & bolt-ons - staying N/A, and looking for maybe 275rwhp.

I have been looking at the Edel 6037 or 6032 heads and Performer 5.0 intake... but not sure what else I would need.

Thanks for any help! Bob

TMASTER · 06-12-2003, 07:56 PM

Heres my opinion, hope it helps you

Well you need to have something to go on, Lets start with the 275 rear wheel Horsepower. Thats about 305 at the motor id say. If you stay with the stock cam you are going to have to make up the power in the heads, You will have to go with aluminum high flow heads $1000-$1300, and a $400 intake, and $250 roller rockers. You also have to have it tuned with more fuel the stock injectors should be fine. Then you might ask what about the push rods and lifters? Well your not running a cam, so the stock pushrods are fine and the lifters. Then you might say man I dont want to chance messing up a head if there $600 each!! Stud mount rockers setups are a bit stronger than pedistal mount. Your not going to run a cam the pedistel mounts will work fine. there easyer too, they just bolt down, but you'll have to see what your heads accept!

((If you havent done the timming chain you better do it when you have the motor tore down.))

I jsut did all of this to my car, exept i used Iron heads. Heres what you will need:

Engine gasket set $100
1.7 Roller rockers $250
Fuel regulator $100
RTV $10
oil / fluids $25
Intake U&L $400
Alum Heads $1000
Timming chain $30
Other expences $100 theres always somethin more you need

You should gain 85-105 Horsepower at the motor with this, The dyno will know lol!

I would take your motor apart first and inspect the pushrods and lifters, How many miles are on it???

Also you could just spend $1800 and slap a supercharger on!!! Save the hassle and labor and the cusing! lol

Just take this all in, I always do when i make a big purchase. I hope this helps you, I used my 140K mile pushrods and lifters on my new setup, they were in great shape!!!

RED92LX50 · 06-12-2003, 08:22 PM

Thanks, your info certainly helps me out. I have about 80K on my car. I have a 75mm Pro-M MAF and 65mm TB, and adj FPR to go on already. I think I would like to go with stud-mount rockers...but do I need to buy anything else with them - or do guideplates come on stud-mount heads already? I will keep the stock lifters if 80K isn't too much. It seems like things keep adding up...intake bolts, gaskets, sealant, torque wrench... but I really enjoy working on my car.

Will I be OK with the stock timing chain if I dont change the cam - or is 80K a good time to replace the chain anyway?

Thanks again for your input! Bob

TMASTER · 06-12-2003, 09:49 PM

Well sence your going to have the heads off, you should put a new chain in. because all the accesories are going to be unbolted. a couple extra hours and you have a new chain on. I waited till 140K, and mine was soo soo soo!! loose! lol You wouldnt want that chain to break and bend some pushrods and beat those new heads up would you?

Buy some heads all complete with studs and plates on them, its a pain in the *** trying to figure out what to buy to fit with the things you got! I dont remember how many times I was on the phone or on the Forums

other things you'll want to get are

new spark plugs
new wires
new cap and rotar
probably some new vaccum lines, i had to replace some of mine
the price just keeps going up.

I spent $400 MORE on my modifications, that i didnt plan on spending. And I didnt get as much HP from that i planned on

. So good luck!

RED92LX50 · 06-13-2003, 06:55 AM

Yeah, I know what you mean - when I wanted to put on longtubes, at first I was thinking $375 for these is a great deal, so my mind was made up - I had to have them...then another $350 for the shorty cat h-pipe, then another $100 for new 02 sensors (and $10 for the 7/8" wrench to remove them

), then $20 to get the Fel-pro gaskets, then $50 to get the Stage-8 header bolts, then another $100 for new motor mounts so they wouldn't scrape the ground...by the time I was done my $375 was closer to $1,000

Will I need to remove the water pump while I am down there? I may go ahead and upgrade that while I am at it...and what a great time to stick in the Mark VIII Electric fan while I have the shroud and all removed...haha

ChunkFunky · 06-13-2003, 01:06 PM

I'll just add, I did the head, cam, intake swap with just about 100K on my motor and I used the stock lifters and dont have any problems... though i went the TFS heads wich required longer pushrods, though I would have reused the stock ones if I could have... I got the heads and intake for 1000 bucks used but you spend countless amounts on little stuff... even just hose clamps cause I destroyed the stock ones trying to get the heater hoses off... not to mention the worm gear style are much better then the stock style.

most AFTERMARKET heads will be stud mount as for as rockers go and I think in most cases you'll need to cut out the baffle on teh passenger side valve cover to make any rocker fit 1.6 or 1.7
-as

RED92LX50 · 06-13-2003, 01:39 PM

Yeah, I have been looking at several message boards, and it looks like everyone running aftermarket rockers grinds down or removes the oil filler baffle. I was considering the taller covers, but started seeing how they interfere with the throttle cable (and may hit the upper intake...so people were adding a 1" spacer to raise the upper intake...then they had to get a cowl hood! Does it ever end

ChunkFunky · 06-13-2003, 02:35 PM

well ike I said i bought my stuff used... mine came with the PHENOLIC spacer all ready... though you are cutting it close with valve cover clearance even WITH the space... you cant take them off without loosening the upper intake as it is... though with the phenolic spacer there's no hood clearance issues... so dont sweat that... as for grinding the baffle.. it's cake.. it's not tough and it save alot of money on new Vcs...
-as

Coupe50h · 06-14-2003, 03:45 AM

About the timing chain, i just bought a stock replacement chain, and kept the same sprockets.

When i bought my heads, i was just going to bolt them on and use the stock cam, well once i had it tore down i though why not?

then the intake shortly after.

ChunkFunky · 06-14-2003, 08:43 AM

I bought the SUMMIT timing set... two new sprokets and the chain for 40 bucks... not so bad for peice of mind
-as

06-12-2003, 12:09 PM	#1
RED92LX50 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 220	After all normal bolt-ons... cylinder head questions Hi, I have finished most of the standard bolt-ons on my car (gears, exhaust, pulleys, MAF, TB, gauges) with the exception of heads/cam/intake. I think I want to keep my stock cam for drivability and emissions. So I am looking at heads and intake - I am getting confused about stud-mount rockers versus pedestal mount rockers, I know the head will only accept one kind, but I am seeing things like guideplates and hardened pushrods associated with stud-mount, but not mentioned with pedestal mount. Then there are the lifters... are they all hydraulic, will my stock ones be sufficient (and work with either style rocker). Then, with the rockers, I see 1.7 or 1.6 is used most often, but some experience clearance issues under the valve covers with 1.7... Basically, I would like to know my options (cost & reliability - mostly street, but not a daily driver) for putting together a nice complete Heads/Intake package on a mostly stock 5.0 with exhaust & bolt-ons - staying N/A, and looking for maybe 275rwhp. I have been looking at the Edel 6037 or 6032 heads and Performer 5.0 intake... but not sure what else I would need. Thanks for any help! Bob __________________ 1992 LX 5.0 Convertible Red/Blk Gears, Exhaust, bolt-ons... R.H.C. #51

06-12-2003, 07:56 PM	#2
TMASTER Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 161	thinking Heres my opinion, hope it helps you Well you need to have something to go on, Lets start with the 275 rear wheel Horsepower. Thats about 305 at the motor id say. If you stay with the stock cam you are going to have to make up the power in the heads, You will have to go with aluminum high flow heads $1000-$1300, and a $400 intake, and $250 roller rockers. You also have to have it tuned with more fuel the stock injectors should be fine. Then you might ask what about the push rods and lifters? Well your not running a cam, so the stock pushrods are fine and the lifters. Then you might say man I dont want to chance messing up a head if there $600 each!! Stud mount rockers setups are a bit stronger than pedistal mount. Your not going to run a cam the pedistel mounts will work fine. there easyer too, they just bolt down, but you'll have to see what your heads accept! ((If you havent done the timming chain you better do it when you have the motor tore down.)) I jsut did all of this to my car, exept i used Iron heads. Heres what you will need: Engine gasket set $100 1.7 Roller rockers $250 Fuel regulator $100 RTV $10 oil / fluids $25 Intake U&L $400 Alum Heads $1000 Timming chain $30 Other expences $100 theres always somethin more you need You should gain 85-105 Horsepower at the motor with this, The dyno will know lol! I would take your motor apart first and inspect the pushrods and lifters, How many miles are on it??? Also you could just spend $1800 and slap a supercharger on!!! Save the hassle and labor and the cusing! lol Just take this all in, I always do when i make a big purchase. I hope this helps you, I used my 140K mile pushrods and lifters on my new setup, they were in great shape!!! Last edited by TMASTER; 06-12-2003 at 08:01 PM..

06-12-2003, 08:22 PM	#3
RED92LX50 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 220	Thanks, your info certainly helps me out. I have about 80K on my car. I have a 75mm Pro-M MAF and 65mm TB, and adj FPR to go on already. I think I would like to go with stud-mount rockers...but do I need to buy anything else with them - or do guideplates come on stud-mount heads already? I will keep the stock lifters if 80K isn't too much. It seems like things keep adding up...intake bolts, gaskets, sealant, torque wrench... but I really enjoy working on my car. Will I be OK with the stock timing chain if I dont change the cam - or is 80K a good time to replace the chain anyway? Thanks again for your input! Bob __________________ 1992 LX 5.0 Convertible Red/Blk Gears, Exhaust, bolt-ons... R.H.C. #51

06-12-2003, 09:49 PM	#4
TMASTER Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 161	hmm Well sence your going to have the heads off, you should put a new chain in. because all the accesories are going to be unbolted. a couple extra hours and you have a new chain on. I waited till 140K, and mine was soo soo soo!! loose! lol You wouldnt want that chain to break and bend some pushrods and beat those new heads up would you? Buy some heads all complete with studs and plates on them, its a pain in the *** trying to figure out what to buy to fit with the things you got! I dont remember how many times I was on the phone or on the Forums other things you'll want to get are new spark plugs new wires new cap and rotar probably some new vaccum lines, i had to replace some of mine the price just keeps going up. I spent $400 MORE on my modifications, that i didnt plan on spending. And I didnt get as much HP from that i planned on . So good luck!

06-13-2003, 06:55 AM	#5
RED92LX50 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 220	Yeah, I know what you mean - when I wanted to put on longtubes, at first I was thinking $375 for these is a great deal, so my mind was made up - I had to have them...then another $350 for the shorty cat h-pipe, then another $100 for new 02 sensors (and $10 for the 7/8" wrench to remove them ), then $20 to get the Fel-pro gaskets, then $50 to get the Stage-8 header bolts, then another $100 for new motor mounts so they wouldn't scrape the ground...by the time I was done my $375 was closer to $1,000 Will I need to remove the water pump while I am down there? I may go ahead and upgrade that while I am at it...and what a great time to stick in the Mark VIII Electric fan while I have the shroud and all removed...haha __________________ 1992 LX 5.0 Convertible Red/Blk Gears, Exhaust, bolt-ons... R.H.C. #51

06-13-2003, 01:06 PM	#6
ChunkFunky Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tustin, CA Posts: 465	I'll just add, I did the head, cam, intake swap with just about 100K on my motor and I used the stock lifters and dont have any problems... though i went the TFS heads wich required longer pushrods, though I would have reused the stock ones if I could have... I got the heads and intake for 1000 bucks used but you spend countless amounts on little stuff... even just hose clamps cause I destroyed the stock ones trying to get the heater hoses off... not to mention the worm gear style are much better then the stock style. most AFTERMARKET heads will be stud mount as for as rockers go and I think in most cases you'll need to cut out the baffle on teh passenger side valve cover to make any rocker fit 1.6 or 1.7 -as __________________ '89 GT Convertible: TFS TW Heads, TFS Street Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FMS 1.6 RRs, 24# Injectors, Pro-M 75mm MAF, No Name CAI, 3.73s, O/R H-Pipe, FlowMasters, AOD w/ Trans-Go Shift Kit

06-13-2003, 01:39 PM	#7
RED92LX50 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 220	Yeah, I have been looking at several message boards, and it looks like everyone running aftermarket rockers grinds down or removes the oil filler baffle. I was considering the taller covers, but started seeing how they interfere with the throttle cable (and may hit the upper intake...so people were adding a 1" spacer to raise the upper intake...then they had to get a cowl hood! Does it ever end __________________ 1992 LX 5.0 Convertible Red/Blk Gears, Exhaust, bolt-ons... R.H.C. #51

06-13-2003, 02:35 PM	#8
ChunkFunky Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tustin, CA Posts: 465	well ike I said i bought my stuff used... mine came with the PHENOLIC spacer all ready... though you are cutting it close with valve cover clearance even WITH the space... you cant take them off without loosening the upper intake as it is... though with the phenolic spacer there's no hood clearance issues... so dont sweat that... as for grinding the baffle.. it's cake.. it's not tough and it save alot of money on new Vcs... -as __________________ '89 GT Convertible: TFS TW Heads, TFS Street Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FMS 1.6 RRs, 24# Injectors, Pro-M 75mm MAF, No Name CAI, 3.73s, O/R H-Pipe, FlowMasters, AOD w/ Trans-Go Shift Kit

06-14-2003, 03:45 AM	#9
Coupe50h Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 957	About the timing chain, i just bought a stock replacement chain, and kept the same sprockets. When i bought my heads, i was just going to bolt them on and use the stock cam, well once i had it tore down i though why not? then the intake shortly after. __________________ X-Texas highway patrol ssp 1990 coupe - exploder Gt-40 iron heads, Explorer intake, 19 lber's. E-cam. crane 1.7 rollers. 190fp. 75mm maf. 65mm tb, tubular subframe connectors, mac cai, Asp crank pulley, T-5, king cobra clutch, flowtech 1-5/8 unequals, mac X-pipe Frpp driveshaft, lakewood Lca's. race weight 3,160 12.69 @ 107.35, 1.71 60' 26x8.5 drag's 3.90 gear 13.20 @ 106.91 - 235/60/15 firestones 2.3 60' 3.27 gear

06-14-2003, 08:43 AM	#10
ChunkFunky Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tustin, CA Posts: 465	I bought the SUMMIT timing set... two new sprokets and the chain for 40 bucks... not so bad for peice of mind -as __________________ '89 GT Convertible: TFS TW Heads, TFS Street Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FMS 1.6 RRs, 24# Injectors, Pro-M 75mm MAF, No Name CAI, 3.73s, O/R H-Pipe, FlowMasters, AOD w/ Trans-Go Shift Kit

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