Drivetrain hp loss....

silver_pilate · 10-04-2001, 11:46 PM

I was wondering about what the power loss through an AOD setup would be. What kind of percentage are we looking at RWHP.

Say, if I had 350 flywheel, what would it be at the wheels??

Just doing some thinking. I know I'm losing major power through the drivetrain...AOD's on it's third life (two previous rebuilds before I got it). As I finally finish my combo, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. Anybody done any *CHEAP* T-5 conversions?

Thanks guys. It's late and I'm thinking too much.

--nathan

------------------
--silver_pilate

'91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods...

Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh...
--Texas Panhandle--
Check out my site

Rick 91GT · 10-05-2001, 03:53 PM

I think it is around 18% through an auto, and 12%-14% on a manual depending on the drive shaft etc...

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension, SPEC stage III clutch, Lakewood SFI bell, S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!
[b]12.16 @ 113.5, 1.78 60ft..no traction in the 90 degree

streetfreak · 10-06-2001, 06:00 PM

if you 350 at the flywheel and the stock fhywheel and driveshaft I would think around 275 to 285 to the wheels and that would be at 18-20% loss an stick would be 295-305 to the wheels

Unit 5302 · 10-06-2001, 06:04 PM

T-5 17%
C-4 19%
AOD 22%

The AOD is a pig, if you have 350 flywheel, you'll have 275hp or so with the AOD at the wheels.

Jeb_Bush_2000 · 10-06-2001, 10:44 PM

Why does a stick suck so much power? I had always figured they were in the 8-10% range...

fiveohpatrol · 10-06-2001, 11:00 PM

I did a cheap T-5 conversion.
found a good used T-5/bellhousing/flywheel for $200
adj.clutch cable/clutch kit/pilot bearing/clutch fork all new from D&D ~ $310
block plate/pedals/shifter boot/stock shifter~ $90
sold the fairly fresh AOD/converter ~ -$425
total it up and i spent under 200 bucks
not bad for an awesome upgrade
but then again, the 225/60 tires would NOT hook for crap so i bit the bullet and bought some Nitto's ~ $300
and a B&M ripper shifter ~$160

if you can find a cheap T-5 then thats the biggest chunk of change for the swap, good luck

------------------
88 Notch, B&M Ripper, 3.73's, Ported E7's, Explorer int. w/ ported lower, pulleys, 1.7RR's, BBK headers, off-road H-pipe, flowmasters, subframes, 65mm TB, March ram air ,MSD coil, U/L control arms, 155lph f/p, Crane Adj.FPR, Nitto drag radials, best 1/4--> 13.76@101.4 on a 2.17 60ft

Unit 5302 · 10-07-2001, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000:
Why does a stick suck so much power? I had always figured they were in the 8-10% range...

It's not only the transmission itself. Driveline losses also occur in spinning the driveshaft, the rear end, spinning the torque converter or the pressure plate and clutch.

The friction from meshing gears, and the power loss from reciprocating mass adds up. For an AOD, you must add in the weight of the torque converter, the front pump, and the additional mass of the AOD's rotating assemblies.

10-07-2001, 08:55 AM

Remember that with the AOD, the loss is highly dependent on your converter too. I've got a relatively loose converter that's slipping away about 35hp when its unlocked. I made 290RWHP with it unlocked and 325RWHP with it locked. The locked RWHP is only a few HP less than what I made with the T5 last year. With my T5, I found that if I subtracted 17% from the Desktop Dyno results, they matched almost identical to the chassis dyno results up through about 6000rpm. The good thing about the AOD/converter is the torque multiplication. I made over 400ft-lbs when we flashed the converter compared to 340ft-lbs with is locked and 352ft-lbs with the T5. In the end, I don't think the pure losses in the AOD are really that much more than the T5, probably around the 20% level compared to 17% for the T5.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #3
11.462 Seconds/117.43 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

10-04-2001, 11:46 PM	#1
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Drivetrain hp loss.... I was wondering about what the power loss through an AOD setup would be. What kind of percentage are we looking at RWHP. Say, if I had 350 flywheel, what would it be at the wheels?? Just doing some thinking. I know I'm losing major power through the drivetrain...AOD's on it's third life (two previous rebuilds before I got it). As I finally finish my combo, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. Anybody done any CHEAP T-5 conversions? Thanks guys. It's late and I'm thinking too much. --nathan ------------------ --silver_pilate '91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods... Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh... --Texas Panhandle-- Check out my site

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10-05-2001, 03:53 PM	#2
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	I think it is around 18% through an auto, and 12%-14% on a manual depending on the drive shaft etc... ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension, SPEC stage III clutch, Lakewood SFI bell, S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! [b]12.16 @ 113.5, 1.78 60ft..no traction in the 90 degree

10-06-2001, 06:00 PM	#3
streetfreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Elgin il Posts: 8	if you 350 at the flywheel and the stock fhywheel and driveshaft I would think around 275 to 285 to the wheels and that would be at 18-20% loss an stick would be 295-305 to the wheels

10-06-2001, 06:04 PM	#4
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	T-5 17% C-4 19% AOD 22% The AOD is a pig, if you have 350 flywheel, you'll have 275hp or so with the AOD at the wheels.

10-06-2001, 10:44 PM	#5
Jeb_Bush_2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 374	Why does a stick suck so much power? I had always figured they were in the 8-10% range...

10-06-2001, 11:00 PM	#6
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	I did a cheap T-5 conversion. found a good used T-5/bellhousing/flywheel for $200 adj.clutch cable/clutch kit/pilot bearing/clutch fork all new from D&D ~ $310 block plate/pedals/shifter boot/stock shifter~ $90 sold the fairly fresh AOD/converter ~ -$425 total it up and i spent under 200 bucks not bad for an awesome upgrade but then again, the 225/60 tires would NOT hook for crap so i bit the bullet and bought some Nitto's ~ $300 and a B&M ripper shifter ~$160 if you can find a cheap T-5 then thats the biggest chunk of change for the swap, good luck ------------------ 88 Notch, B&M Ripper, 3.73's, Ported E7's, Explorer int. w/ ported lower, pulleys, 1.7RR's, BBK headers, off-road H-pipe, flowmasters, subframes, 65mm TB, March ram air ,MSD coil, U/L control arms, 155lph f/p, Crane Adj.FPR, Nitto drag radials, best 1/4--> 13.76@101.4 on a 2.17 60ft

10-07-2001, 08:55 AM	#8
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	Remember that with the AOD, the loss is highly dependent on your converter too. I've got a relatively loose converter that's slipping away about 35hp when its unlocked. I made 290RWHP with it unlocked and 325RWHP with it locked. The locked RWHP is only a few HP less than what I made with the T5 last year. With my T5, I found that if I subtracted 17% from the Desktop Dyno results, they matched almost identical to the chassis dyno results up through about 6000rpm. The good thing about the AOD/converter is the torque multiplication. I made over 400ft-lbs when we flashed the converter compared to 340ft-lbs with is locked and 352ft-lbs with the T5. In the end, I don't think the pure losses in the AOD are really that much more than the T5, probably around the 20% level compared to 17% for the T5. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #3 11.462 Seconds/117.43 MPH Chambers Racing Team