Which is the real limiting factor on a stock 5.0?

95mustanggt · 09-12-2002, 11:38 AM

Considering were I am with my car and my available cash flow, this is a pretty important question.

Dark_5.0 · 09-12-2002, 12:12 PM

Some people go into the 11's with the stock cam, it is actually pretty good for a stock part.

I will break into the 12's here pretty soon with ported stock heads,explorer intake and stock cam and rockers.

I think the intake is the most restrictive part of the stock 5.0 engine.

Adding an aftermarket intake with a 65mm TB is good for a few horsies which proves that the stock intake was choking the stock heads somewhat.

Obviosly the heads have the most effect on performance if You put AFR 165's on with a stock intake there is no doubt you would go quite a bit faster but you will not reach your full potential.

Heads and intake should be upgraded at the same time. So that your car reaches its full potential.

JMO,

302 LX Eric · 09-12-2002, 12:46 PM

I voted for both the intake and heads.

When I bolted up my GT40 intake, 65 TB, 24#ers, and 75mm Bullet, I was expecting a huge gain and just didn't see it - this was with the stock E7TE's.

As soon as I installed the TFS TW heads and Steeda cam the car came alive.

As Dark 5.0 has said and done, it is possible to see gains with ported stock heads, and new intake, etc. but it will be 'harder' to do.

If it were me, I would save up the cash to do everything (read: intake, heads, maybe a cam too) at once.

Good luck with your decision.
E

95mustanggt · 09-12-2002, 01:38 PM

Thanks guys. I was thinking ported heads with stock cam/intake. But I'm not spend time and money (gaskets and seal) to get very marginal gains.

84LX89GT · 09-12-2002, 02:16 PM

I porteded the exhaust on my cylinder heads, changed to a trick flow street intake and put on headers/dual exhaust and it made my car come alive. The power used to literally DIE after 4500 and now my best times come when i shift at 5500 (which it actually pulls up to). It's best to get the heads/intake together because you will see MUCH better power gains, but i got a noticable kick in the pants with what i did.
...then again i also had 1.7 roller rockers, CAI, 73MM maf and 70mm TB before i added these things, so your results may vary.

Ackbar00 · 09-12-2002, 03:12 PM

Money

Sonics2042 · 09-12-2002, 04:45 PM

I have intake, full exhaust, and cam...

My car is DYING for some heads. I think the intake sucks ***, but I think it is the heads that really hold it back. When I added a new e-303 cam, intake manifolds, and headers I saw no improvement with my 1/4 mile times. Granted, the cam I got sucks with AOD (FINALLY going to start the swap to T5 tomorrow!). I know heads would really make my car come alive, which is why I voted heads. I agree intake is needed, but better gains come from the heads.

Ok, that was some serious rambling, but whatever!

Thanks,
DoranW

zepherman · 09-12-2002, 08:48 PM

If you have an AOD i would definately suggest that you swap it for someting better. I swaped my with a T-5 like sonics is about to do and it made a major difference in performance. If you dont believe me, wait until sonics is through with his swap and see what he says.

Sonics, good luck with your swap, send me an e-mail if you have any quesions about your swap.

Dark_5.0 · 09-12-2002, 09:57 PM

I smoke cars with aftermarket heads cam and intake every weekend. The look on there face when I tell them I have stock ported heads and still run the stock cam is priceless.

I think I will always keep my E7's.

There are many stangs running 11's and 12's with the stock heads. They have potential if you know what you are doing.

The intake on the other hand is junk,

IMO.

302 LX Eric · 09-13-2002, 08:32 AM

One thing that the E7's really lack is on the exhaust side. A guy at our track has home ported his E7's, and done the 1.7/1.6 thing along with full exhaust, pulleys, gears, etc. and has got in the high 12's with slicks. So, it's definitely possible. If you're on a really tight budget it might be worth it.

E

Sonics2042 · 09-13-2002, 12:07 PM

How much does it cost to port heads? Wouldn't it be worth just buying a new/used pair?

Thanks,
DoranW

USMC302 · 09-13-2002, 12:25 PM

My vote was for the heads but we can't ignore the fact that changing both would be the best combo.
I changed to TW heads with the stock intake and gained a lot ot the track in the coupe a long time ago.
I changed to the Trickflow intake with stock heads and saw almost no gain on the GT. That was also a long time ago too.

2FastLX · 09-14-2002, 11:37 AM

Do you still have the stock exhaust? On my 90 the exhaust made the biggest difference. 1 5/8" long tube headers and 2 1/2" exhaust made for a really noticable difference.

WheelsUp · 09-14-2002, 06:58 PM

Well
I think saying the stock intake sucks is mighty strong,long ago guys went fast with the stock intake and TFS Street Heat heads,this was before the GT40 intake came along,and it was guys flying then with stock intakes.

I will say this,you can always go better with what is out there right now,GT40 still makes a lot more torque than some aftermarket intakes out there,look at the Jan 2001 issue of MM&FF where they tested the GT40 against some heavy hitters in the intake world,it was the GT40 vs the TFS R,Holley Systemax,and Eddy Vic 5.0,the other 3 made more hp but the Gt40 made the most torque.

Sorry for the long answer,but it is too many guys out there going fast with stock parts to say they suck.

88workcar · 09-14-2002, 08:16 PM

The short between the steering wheel and the gas pedal IS the biggest restriction. This is not ment as an insult to anyone here. It is lack of knowledge that is the restriction. I currently have E7s. gasket matched on the intake and the bump removed fron the exhaust. I can assure any of you that I can go back to a stock cam and intake and still run twelves. I am not being a smartass, look over the spelling, I suck there, but I can make a car run on a burger king budget. I ran 112 mph wed night.

Dark_5.0 · 09-15-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 88workcar
The short between the steering wheel and the gas pedal IS the biggest restriction. This is not ment as an insult to anyone here. It is lack of knowledge that is the restriction. I currently have E7s. gasket matched on the intake and the bump removed fron the exhaust. I can assure any of you that I can go back to a stock cam and intake and still run twelves. I am not being a smartass, look over the spelling, I suck there, but I can make a car run on a burger king budget. I ran 112 mph wed night.

Well said.........112mph is awesome with stock heads

302 LX Eric · 09-16-2002, 08:11 AM

88workcar - gotta love the old speed density and the driver

I'm curious, what's your race weight?

E

DAN-MAN · 09-16-2002, 01:06 PM

Hey I got a question. Are those GT-40P heads worth buying? What do you think you could get out of them as far as max et? Thanks alot.

Dan.

mike72678 · 09-16-2002, 01:58 PM

hey 88workcar , are you using nitrous ? i am also curious about the weight of your car when you race it , and what you got done to your suspension .

88workcar · 09-16-2002, 09:02 PM

Thank GOD that no one has taken my post wrong. I never wanted to upset anyone, but I want to get my point across. My car will get weighed Wed or Thur night this week. The last time I weighed it, it was 2900lbs with me in the car. Now it should come in at a high 2700lbs. I never post when my car has me stumped. But too weeks ago, the dist. went out. Now the torque boxes are demolished (OLD 1.5s 60fts) The biggest set back lately was that I spent $450 to have my old, big valve, ported, shaved, E7s redone and the gaskets and too days of wrenching. Only to fine that the head shop screwed me, one head is cracked. Yes they say that they checked them. Well today I called POWER HEADS, I thing that I am going that route. I want 12.00s on a pair of E7s. Yes I do have NOS, I don't have a cage so I don't use it at the track. I did bust a guys butt two weeks ago on the street with it.

09-12-2002, 11:38 AM	#1
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	Which is the real limiting factor on a stock 5.0? Considering were I am with my car and my available cash flow, this is a pretty important question. __________________ 1995 Mustang GT 20016 F150 Lariat Super Crew

09-12-2002, 12:12 PM	#2
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Some people go into the 11's with the stock cam, it is actually pretty good for a stock part. I will break into the 12's here pretty soon with ported stock heads,explorer intake and stock cam and rockers. I think the intake is the most restrictive part of the stock 5.0 engine. Adding an aftermarket intake with a 65mm TB is good for a few horsies which proves that the stock intake was choking the stock heads somewhat. Obviosly the heads have the most effect on performance if You put AFR 165's on with a stock intake there is no doubt you would go quite a bit faster but you will not reach your full potential. Heads and intake should be upgraded at the same time. So that your car reaches its full potential. JMO, __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

09-12-2002, 12:46 PM	#3
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	I voted for both the intake and heads. When I bolted up my GT40 intake, 65 TB, 24#ers, and 75mm Bullet, I was expecting a huge gain and just didn't see it - this was with the stock E7TE's. As soon as I installed the TFS TW heads and Steeda cam the car came alive. As Dark 5.0 has said and done, it is possible to see gains with ported stock heads, and new intake, etc. but it will be 'harder' to do. If it were me, I would save up the cash to do everything (read: intake, heads, maybe a cam too) at once. Good luck with your decision. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

09-12-2002, 01:38 PM	#4
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	Thanks guys. I was thinking ported heads with stock cam/intake. But I'm not spend time and money (gaskets and seal) to get very marginal gains. __________________ 1995 Mustang GT 20016 F150 Lariat Super Crew

09-12-2002, 02:16 PM	#5
84LX89GT Mustangs Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,938	I porteded the exhaust on my cylinder heads, changed to a trick flow street intake and put on headers/dual exhaust and it made my car come alive. The power used to literally DIE after 4500 and now my best times come when i shift at 5500 (which it actually pulls up to). It's best to get the heads/intake together because you will see MUCH better power gains, but i got a noticable kick in the pants with what i did. ...then again i also had 1.7 roller rockers, CAI, 73MM maf and 70mm TB before i added these things, so your results may vary. __________________ 2005 Suzuki Hayabusa GSX1300-R 1980 Ford Thunderbird - 255 V8 ported heads, 5.0L ported stock headers, O.R. H-pipe and Flowmaster 2-chambers, dual roller timing chain hi-po Mack Truck hood emblem 1985 Mustang GT 5.0L T5, F-303, GT40p, headers, off-road h, flowmasters, MSD stuff, etc. Sold 02/06/04 1989 Mustang GT ET: 13.304@102.29 mph (5-24-03) Sold - 1998 Mustang Cobra coupe, 1/4 mile - street tires: 13.843@103.41 (bone stock)

09-12-2002, 03:12 PM	#6
Ackbar00 Rebel Fleet Commander Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Huber Heights, OH Posts: 1,003	Money __________________ 1993 Mustang GT, PTK w/ T-64 - My Cardomain Webpage 11.25@123.5 on only 8 psi. 10.84@121 on only 1 headgasket "The Truth is, Your the Weak, and I am the Tyranny of Evil Men!"

09-12-2002, 04:45 PM	#7
Sonics2042 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 381	I have intake, full exhaust, and cam... My car is DYING for some heads. I think the intake sucks ***, but I think it is the heads that really hold it back. When I added a new e-303 cam, intake manifolds, and headers I saw no improvement with my 1/4 mile times. Granted, the cam I got sucks with AOD (FINALLY going to start the swap to T5 tomorrow!). I know heads would really make my car come alive, which is why I voted heads. I agree intake is needed, but better gains come from the heads. Ok, that was some serious rambling, but whatever! Thanks, DoranW __________________ What I have: 1990 Red Mustang 5.0 LX: [BBK X-Pipe]-[MAC Cat-Back Exhaust] [MAC Cold Air Intake]-[BBK Equal Shorties] [3.55 Gears]-[Cobra Intake Manifold (Upper and Lower] [E-303 Cam]-[Granetelli Mass Air Flow Sensor] [Front and rear sway bars]-[New black carpet and seats.] [Adjustable Fuel Regulator]-[T5 Conversion w/ K. Cobra Clutch/Hurst STS] [Cobra Throttle Body]-[130A Alt. Conversion] Thinking about: Aftermarket Heads! Vortech A-Trim

09-12-2002, 08:48 PM	#8
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	If you have an AOD i would definately suggest that you swap it for someting better. I swaped my with a T-5 like sonics is about to do and it made a major difference in performance. If you dont believe me, wait until sonics is through with his swap and see what he says. Sonics, good luck with your swap, send me an e-mail if you have any quesions about your swap. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

09-12-2002, 09:57 PM	#9
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	I smoke cars with aftermarket heads cam and intake every weekend. The look on there face when I tell them I have stock ported heads and still run the stock cam is priceless. I think I will always keep my E7's. There are many stangs running 11's and 12's with the stock heads. They have potential if you know what you are doing. The intake on the other hand is junk, IMO. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

09-13-2002, 08:32 AM	#10
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	One thing that the E7's really lack is on the exhaust side. A guy at our track has home ported his E7's, and done the 1.7/1.6 thing along with full exhaust, pulleys, gears, etc. and has got in the high 12's with slicks. So, it's definitely possible. If you're on a really tight budget it might be worth it. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

09-13-2002, 12:07 PM	#11
Sonics2042 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 381	How much does it cost to port heads? Wouldn't it be worth just buying a new/used pair? Thanks, DoranW __________________ What I have: 1990 Red Mustang 5.0 LX: [BBK X-Pipe]-[MAC Cat-Back Exhaust] [MAC Cold Air Intake]-[BBK Equal Shorties] [3.55 Gears]-[Cobra Intake Manifold (Upper and Lower] [E-303 Cam]-[Granetelli Mass Air Flow Sensor] [Front and rear sway bars]-[New black carpet and seats.] [Adjustable Fuel Regulator]-[T5 Conversion w/ K. Cobra Clutch/Hurst STS] [Cobra Throttle Body]-[130A Alt. Conversion] Thinking about: Aftermarket Heads! Vortech A-Trim

09-13-2002, 12:25 PM	#12
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	My vote was for the heads but we can't ignore the fact that changing both would be the best combo. I changed to TW heads with the stock intake and gained a lot ot the track in the coupe a long time ago. I changed to the Trickflow intake with stock heads and saw almost no gain on the GT. That was also a long time ago too. __________________

09-14-2002, 11:37 AM	#13
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	Do you still have the stock exhaust? On my 90 the exhaust made the biggest difference. 1 5/8" long tube headers and 2 1/2" exhaust made for a really noticable difference. __________________ Project: 1988 Coupe - EFI 5.8L Twin Turbo with Victor intake, Canfield heads, F303 cam, March aluminum underdrive pulleys, TKO (or T56 if funds permit), PBR twin piston calipers and 13" rotors up front, 94 Cobra rear calipers and 12" rotors on the rear, 3.73's, Griggs K-member, tubular front control arms, torque arm and panhard bar, polished 99 Cobra wheels. "The GR-40 kit installation is now complete, and the humble Fox-chassis car will now out-corner and out-stop a ZR-1 or a Viper, and support massive horsepower additions with perfect balance." Griggs Racing ICQ# 42269241

09-14-2002, 06:58 PM	#14
WheelsUp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: At The Track Posts: 20	combo Well I think saying the stock intake sucks is mighty strong,long ago guys went fast with the stock intake and TFS Street Heat heads,this was before the GT40 intake came along,and it was guys flying then with stock intakes. I will say this,you can always go better with what is out there right now,GT40 still makes a lot more torque than some aftermarket intakes out there,look at the Jan 2001 issue of MM&FF where they tested the GT40 against some heavy hitters in the intake world,it was the GT40 vs the TFS R,Holley Systemax,and Eddy Vic 5.0,the other 3 made more hp but the Gt40 made the most torque. Sorry for the long answer,but it is too many guys out there going fast with stock parts to say they suck. __________________ Come to the Track you might learn something

09-14-2002, 08:16 PM	#15
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	The short between the steering wheel and the gas pedal IS the biggest restriction. This is not ment as an insult to anyone here. It is lack of knowledge that is the restriction. I currently have E7s. gasket matched on the intake and the bump removed fron the exhaust. I can assure any of you that I can go back to a stock cam and intake and still run twelves. I am not being a smartass, look over the spelling, I suck there, but I can make a car run on a burger king budget. I ran 112 mph wed night. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

09-16-2002, 08:11 AM	#17
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	88workcar - gotta love the old speed density and the driver I'm curious, what's your race weight? E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

09-16-2002, 01:06 PM	#18
DAN-MAN Confederate Cowboy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 546	Hey I got a question. Are those GT-40P heads worth buying? What do you think you could get out of them as far as max et? Thanks alot. Dan. __________________ DAN-MAN RHC MEMBER #25

09-16-2002, 01:58 PM	#19
mike72678 MW Link Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: rochester , ny Posts: 79	hey 88workcar , are you using nitrous ? i am also curious about the weight of your car when you race it , and what you got done to your suspension .

09-16-2002, 09:02 PM	#20
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Thank GOD that no one has taken my post wrong. I never wanted to upset anyone, but I want to get my point across. My car will get weighed Wed or Thur night this week. The last time I weighed it, it was 2900lbs with me in the car. Now it should come in at a high 2700lbs. I never post when my car has me stumped. But too weeks ago, the dist. went out. Now the torque boxes are demolished (OLD 1.5s 60fts) The biggest set back lately was that I spent $450 to have my old, big valve, ported, shaved, E7s redone and the gaskets and too days of wrenching. Only to fine that the head shop screwed me, one head is cracked. Yes they say that they checked them. Well today I called POWER HEADS, I thing that I am going that route. I want 12.00s on a pair of E7s. Yes I do have NOS, I don't have a cage so I don't use it at the track. I did bust a guys butt two weeks ago on the street with it. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

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