Largest cam in 351W without cutting the pistons (Looking at AFR185s)

[Fox Body]

Does anyone know the largest cam I could put in a stock '87 351W without cutting the pistons? That's the one I have in mine, but can't find the specs. I need duration (in/ex) and lift (int/ex). Concerning lift, tech guy at FRPP suggested 472/496. I need to get the book (going to the Ford dealer now to get one).

I'm looking at some AFR 185s for the 351W and they can't tell me if the pistons need to be cut or not. I already know the answer for the 302 with stock cam. I need the answer for the 351. I'm thinking they won't need to be cut (I'd check of course anyway if I did buy the heads, but of course I'd like to at least have a clue b4 I do) since the 351 pistons already have eyebrows.

[82 GT]

I have one of the answers you are looking for:
That '87 351w cam has the following specs:

.206 intake, .221 exhaust @ .050
.440 intake valve lift, .450 exhaust valve lift
115 degrees lobe separation

I don't know about the piston cutting question though but a good cam that I've been hearing about lately(and from Comp Cams) is the Extreme Energy 274 cam:

274*/286* (230/236@.050) .519/.523 lift 110* LSA

I'm returning my 292 magnum cam and getting this one for my motor ( I know...I know....this is the 2nd cam I've returned but this is the final cam...LOL)

I'm getting my stock heads ported & polished and having 2.02/1.60 valves installed as we speak. I'm almost certain that I'm going to need my pistons cut for those size valves.
I'm thinking that you might too because the eyebrows are probably only cut for stock size valves.
Let me know what you find out.

[Fox Body]

Hey man. Thanks for the info. Those first specs are for the stock cam. What I found out (had to go to the dealer and get an FRPP book --- can't find my stinking book ) was the largest cam you can put in a '87 Windsor withouth notching is the A332 cam 290/300 duration @ .472/.496 lift (214/224@.050 lobe lift).

The AFR185s that I'm looking at have 2.02/1.6 int/ex valves as well. Looking into the 58cc (instead of 61cc -- for higher compression) comb. chamber (69cc ex ports). Concerning the eyebrows on the stock pistons, they look significantly bigger than the stock valves and I'm pretty sure the eyebrows (both int/ex) are the same size so I'm thinking bigger valves shouldn't make much of a diff. with those pistons (unlike the 302s). Also, in terms of piston to valve clearance, it depends on when the valve is traveling towards the piston and if the piston is moving away from the valve as it opens. Will the piston be at its very top position as the valve is all the way open?? That's what's really important, right? As long as they don't come together and hit. I don't know all the specs on this stuff (as you can probably tell ) and I don't know exactly when the valve travels in respect to piston travel.

Shouldn't the tech guy at AFR be able to tell me if the stinking heads will work without notching the pistons if I give him the cam specs??? I called AFR and the guy was like, "Uh i dunno for sure" and I was like "well, uh if it doesn't work, and I send them back how much will that cost?" He says, "There's shipping fee and a 20% restocking fee." . I'm gonna call again and keep asking around...

Thanks again 82GT for lending a helping hand. Anyone else??

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by Fox Body

Shouldn't the tech guy at AFR be able to tell me if the stinking heads will work without notching the pistons if I give him the cam specs???

No ... Most of the time there are way to many variables ...Cam timing ? Valve size ? Deck clearance? Has the block been milled ? Whose pistons ? Which model of that companies piston ? There are so many combinations of heads/pistons/rod length/pin height/stroke/valve sizes that the most he would likely be able to do is give you a maybe ? or a probably not.
By the way ... 82GT i hope the 3rd time is a charm because you ended up with the same cam as me. Mine is still just a pile of parts so i can't tell you how it works

[82 GT]

Sorry FOXBODY, I misread your question and plus I was thinking you had AFR 165 heads(for some reason).
Like you said about piston/valve clearance, it's the duration that really matters and not so much the lift.
Flycutting the pistons isn't that expensive. A few years back I had a 302 that need notched pistons and it was only like $65 or so to have them done.

[86GT]

There are too many variables for someone with just cam specs and valve size specs to make a determination.

Deck height, piston valve notches, head gasket thickness, and many others. That's what its important to check. That being said, why don't you get the heads you like, the cam that'll suit the heads and intake and then put it together to check. Worst case scenario you have to notch the pistons. I've done it with a dremel and have had no problems whatsoever. That's with a 302 (stock bottom end), 2.02 Edelbrock heads, TFS Stage 2 cam. .544, .563 224, 232 duration at 0.050".

Hope that helps a bit.

[Fox Body]

Originally posted by HotRoddin
No ... Most of the time there are way to many variables ...Cam timing ? Valve size ? Deck clearance? Has the block been milled ? Whose pistons ? Which model of that companies piston ? There are so many combinations of heads/pistons/rod length/pin height/stroke/valve sizes that the most he would likely be able to do is give you a maybe ? or a probably not.
By the way ... 82GT i hope the 3rd time is a charm because you ended up with the same cam as me. Mine is still just a pile of parts so i can't tell you how it works

I understand what you're saying, to a point HotRoddin, but all the stuff on my motor is stock. Stock valves, stock ol' '87 351W deck, non-milled head, stock pistons (never removed -- didn't need to be when I got it rebuilt, it was in such good shape), stock rods, stock stroke, stock crank, etc, etc. Anyway its still a thing where even if they tell me it'll fit, I'd definitely have to check it anyway, so.....

82 GT when you got the pistons flycut, I'm assuming that the motor was already removed and you brought it in to a shop, perhaps with the heads already off the block? I think the other week I was seeing some kind of tool that allows you to notch the pistons without removing the motor from the car (i dunno, maybe I'm wrong). That is still a good price though. I'm gonna look into it.

86GT, I already have the intake I need, but you bring up a good point. If I have to pull the motor to notch the pistons, and they have to remove the pistons, I'm gonna tell them to go ahead and put in new bearings, new rings.... I need to look into a cam a little. If there is one that could be more suitable than the one I have now, even though the one I have now I think is suitable, I guess I could do better...

As far as dremeling out notches, uuuuuuuuhhhhh, I dunno. I don't know if I'd want to do that myself. Reason being is that the pistons need to be really smooth so no hot spots develop and negatively affect combustion (predetonation, variances in compression per cylinder, etc). Maybe it's easier than I think it is, don't know. Picturing it in my head just doesn't look good . ....but that's just my inexperience....

[82 GT]

Originally posted by Fox Body
[B]

82 GT when you got the pistons flycut, I'm assuming that the motor was already removed and you brought it in to a shop, perhaps with the heads already off the block? I think the other week I was seeing some kind of tool that allows you to notch the pistons without removing the motor from the car (i dunno, maybe I'm wrong). That is still a good price though. I'm gonna look into it.

Yeah, the motor was all torn down when I did that. Now that was about 10 years ago so the price now is about $100(guessing)

HotRoddin , this is my last time I'm changing my mind about cams. I feel a lot better about this choice. That 292 magnum was going to force me to buy parts that I really didn't want to buy to make it work correctly...ie 4:11 gears, 3000 stall converter.....single plane intake(torker).
I'm still going to need a 2500 stall converter but at least I can still run my current gears,intake and carb(for now)

[86GT]

Originally posted by Fox Body

As far as dremeling out notches, uuuuuuuuhhhhh, I dunno. I don't know if I'd want to do that myself. Reason being is that the pistons need to be really smooth so no hot spots develop and negatively affect combustion (predetonation, variances in compression per cylinder, etc). Maybe it's easier than I think it is, don't know. Picturing it in my head just doesn't look good . ....but that's just my inexperience....

I can understand the reluctance to try, believe me I was the same way. But when it came down to spending too much money on a set of pistons, or doing it myself and having 3 sets of spare pistons, I wasn't too worried. And if you keep things uniform, always checking and double checking and making a mold of the nothces, things will work out. That's how I've done it and I haven't had a problem. I've even spray 150hp and no problems. I have done quite a bit of research into this and found that the trick is, take your time, make everything uniform and the same, and take off little bits at a time.

Hope that helps.

[82 GT]

........and if you screw up just once then you're going to be spending money either on new pistons or having somone do the rest for you.
I think the extra $65-100 is well worth having a machine shop do it especially if you're reluctant to begin with.
If this was the type of thing you did everyday then I would say "sure, go ahead and do it"
Like they say: "Speed is expensive!!"

[Fox Body]

Yeah, 86GT it's cool that you did your own work on the pistons, but with that specific job, I wouldn't feel comfortable (even though I ported the windsor heads I got on my car now). But, what you said b4 reminded me that if I need to get the pistons notched, that'll give me a great excuse to get new rings and bearings. We'll see. Thanks again guys.



Okay , so no one here has experienced this setup (351W with AFR185s and know for sure if the pistons need to be notched, huh?? K, I'll go and ask around other places....later.