AFR 185 question, helpage needed

MEDIK418 · 10-05-2004, 08:29 PM

I was trying to order the boy a set of AFR 185 street/strip heads and came across the warning that they would not accept rail type rockers. Do they refer to shaft mount rockers and why won't hey work with these heads? Anybody have a clue?

MiracleMax · 10-06-2004, 12:00 AM

No the heads aren't set up for the Factory rail type rocker arms, they are set up for adjustable rockers.

By shaft rockers are you refering to roller rockers? Or actual shaft mounted rockers (like Jesel?)

MEDIK418 · 10-06-2004, 12:10 AM

Yes, i was referring to the Jesel type shaft mounts. Steeda sells a set for about $359 and he was wanting to go this route.

MiracleMax · 10-06-2004, 06:15 AM

To be honest, I'm not sure? As long as the AFR heads use the same spacing on the valves and rocker pedstals as stock (or most aftermarket cylinder heads) then the shaft rockers should work (if thats what the shaft rockers were designed for),

I have a set of 185 AFR heads setting on a 347 waiting to go in my 91 one of these days with a set of stud girdles I had originally bought when I was lookng to use a set of canfields, they bolted down on the AFRs just fine so I suspect this spacing is probably stock or at least the same as the canfields.

Ultimately my advice would be to contact Steeda and AFR to make sure.

88fivepointoh · 10-06-2004, 07:42 AM

I agree with MiracleMax.. The spacing should be the same thought.

420nitro · 10-06-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MEDIK418
Yes, i was referring to the Jesel type shaft mounts. .

They are intended for higher rpm.... (7,000 rpm + on a regular basis.) No need for a street driven car that will be shifted under 6,500 rpms.

7/16 screw in studs with like a set of Crane roller rockers would be more then enough.

MiracleMax · 10-06-2004, 05:16 PM

Y'know speaking of that, My combo uses Crane gold race rockers, 7/16 studs and Comp's spring reccomendation for the big Nitrous HP hydraulic roller cam.

Kinda wished they would'a had the beehive valvesprings out when I was looking for a cam and springs and went ahead and used the stainless steel rockers. Very compact and supposedly light erat the valve tip than regular rockers.

Light weight valves, beehive springs and the stainless rockers looks like a good deal along with some titanium retainers for valve control (not so much being able to rev higher, but better valve control in the intended RPM range).

Now If I can only get around to figuring out how to make composite roller lifters??? Anybody ever thought about an aluminum bodied lifter? Or how bout titanium or beryllium?

MEDIK418 · 10-06-2004, 07:16 PM

Thanks guys. I have a note in to AFR but haven't received an answer yet. As far as the 7000 rpm, he plans to put another type of cam in it . . solid or solid roller when he gets home so he is (or was) planning to take it to 7 and beyond. I think this car will become a weekend warrior at that point. Hey, I tried to argue with the boy a couple of times. Kinda like trying to teach a pig to sing. . .wastes your time and annoys the. . .you get the idea.

I like the idea of the beehive springs. I have the numbers for my own set for the Cleveland but I'm not to that point yet. FYI. . .Comp cams has a boatload more beehive applications that they have listed in the newest catalog.
thanks again. I'll let you know if AFR ever replies.

andy669 · 10-06-2004, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MiracleMax
Now If I can only get around to figuring out how to make composite roller lifters??? Anybody ever thought about an aluminum bodied lifter? Or how bout titanium or beryllium?

No need to. Talk to any valve train engineer and they will tell you that weight doesnt matter on the pushrod side of the fulcrum.

Andy

MiracleMax · 10-09-2004, 11:31 PM

If I think wayback to some articles about comp using the spintron I beleive this was mentioned.

However, in most of the stuff I've seen currently (applying to hydrualic roller lifters mind you) weight seems to be an issue. AFR developed thier hydrarev rev kit for SBCs to help stabilize the valve train at high rpm. Now this may have to do less with the weight of a hyd roller lifter and more to do with harmonics, but it looked like an issue that could be addressed by making a composite body lifter (not meaning ceramic or carbon fiber, but rather using two or more materials to build the lifter).

jonnyk · 10-11-2004, 12:45 PM

Best I can tell is AFR might machine the pedestals differently for studs opposed to pedestal rockers. In this case, you're SOL on the Steeda/Yella Terra shaft mounts.

I've heard from some credible sources that the beehive springs have been breaking a fair bit, particularly in the LS1's. I'd be looking for a quality application-matched double spring, paired with titanium retainers. Nice and stable, strong, and lightweight. Guys are turning hydraulic rollers to the high side of the 7000's like this...

If the revs aren't going super high, I'd consider 3/8" studs (possibly with a girdle) as the rockers have a larger trunion and are considerably stronger than those used with 7/16" studs. But again, it'd be best to consult someone when putting the combination together.

MEDIK418 · 10-11-2004, 02:09 PM

I hadn't heard about springs breaking but, I haven't been looking either. My son is dictating all this to me from the other side of the world but I'll pass this on to him. The 3/8 stud ratinale makes sense and I've been sitting here this morning trying to decide which to get. I plan on ordering them in about an hour so this is helping a lot.
I'll get back later to let you know where we went on this. Thanks again guys. I appreciate it.

MiracleMax · 10-11-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jonnyk
I've heard from some credible sources that the beehive springs have been breaking a fair bit, particularly in the LS1's.

They've been having that problem for years now??? I wonder what the deal is?

Aren't the factory LS1 springs beehive?? I think the 4.6 uses beehive springs too???

I wonder what it could be??? IIRC beehive springs are like variable rate suspension springs (some of the coils are designed to bind) I'm wondering if there is to much bind going on with the aftermarket springs?

10-05-2004, 08:29 PM	#1
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	AFR 185 question, helpage needed I was trying to order the boy a set of AFR 185 street/strip heads and came across the warning that they would not accept rail type rockers. Do they refer to shaft mount rockers and why won't hey work with these heads? Anybody have a clue? __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

10-06-2004, 12:00 AM	#2
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	No the heads aren't set up for the Factory rail type rocker arms, they are set up for adjustable rockers. By shaft rockers are you refering to roller rockers? Or actual shaft mounted rockers (like Jesel?) __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-06-2004, 12:10 AM	#3
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	Yes, i was referring to the Jesel type shaft mounts. Steeda sells a set for about $359 and he was wanting to go this route. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

10-06-2004, 06:15 AM	#4
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	To be honest, I'm not sure? As long as the AFR heads use the same spacing on the valves and rocker pedstals as stock (or most aftermarket cylinder heads) then the shaft rockers should work (if thats what the shaft rockers were designed for), I have a set of 185 AFR heads setting on a 347 waiting to go in my 91 one of these days with a set of stud girdles I had originally bought when I was lookng to use a set of canfields, they bolted down on the AFRs just fine so I suspect this spacing is probably stock or at least the same as the canfields. Ultimately my advice would be to contact Steeda and AFR to make sure. __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-06-2004, 05:16 PM	#7
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Y'know speaking of that, My combo uses Crane gold race rockers, 7/16 studs and Comp's spring reccomendation for the big Nitrous HP hydraulic roller cam. Kinda wished they would'a had the beehive valvesprings out when I was looking for a cam and springs and went ahead and used the stainless steel rockers. Very compact and supposedly light erat the valve tip than regular rockers. Light weight valves, beehive springs and the stainless rockers looks like a good deal along with some titanium retainers for valve control (not so much being able to rev higher, but better valve control in the intended RPM range). Now If I can only get around to figuring out how to make composite roller lifters??? Anybody ever thought about an aluminum bodied lifter? Or how bout titanium or beryllium? __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-06-2004, 07:42 AM	#5
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	I agree with MiracleMax.. The spacing should be the same thought.

10-06-2004, 07:16 PM	#8
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	Thanks guys. I have a note in to AFR but haven't received an answer yet. As far as the 7000 rpm, he plans to put another type of cam in it . . solid or solid roller when he gets home so he is (or was) planning to take it to 7 and beyond. I think this car will become a weekend warrior at that point. Hey, I tried to argue with the boy a couple of times. Kinda like trying to teach a pig to sing. . .wastes your time and annoys the. . .you get the idea. I like the idea of the beehive springs. I have the numbers for my own set for the Cleveland but I'm not to that point yet. FYI. . .Comp cams has a boatload more beehive applications that they have listed in the newest catalog. thanks again. I'll let you know if AFR ever replies. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

10-09-2004, 11:31 PM	#10
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	If I think wayback to some articles about comp using the spintron I beleive this was mentioned. However, in most of the stuff I've seen currently (applying to hydrualic roller lifters mind you) weight seems to be an issue. AFR developed thier hydrarev rev kit for SBCs to help stabilize the valve train at high rpm. Now this may have to do less with the weight of a hyd roller lifter and more to do with harmonics, but it looked like an issue that could be addressed by making a composite body lifter (not meaning ceramic or carbon fiber, but rather using two or more materials to build the lifter). __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-11-2004, 12:45 PM	#11
jonnyk Being stroked is great Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	Best I can tell is AFR might machine the pedestals differently for studs opposed to pedestal rockers. In this case, you're SOL on the Steeda/Yella Terra shaft mounts. I've heard from some credible sources that the beehive springs have been breaking a fair bit, particularly in the LS1's. I'd be looking for a quality application-matched double spring, paired with titanium retainers. Nice and stable, strong, and lightweight. Guys are turning hydraulic rollers to the high side of the 7000's like this... If the revs aren't going super high, I'd consider 3/8" studs (possibly with a girdle) as the rockers have a larger trunion and are considerably stronger than those used with 7/16" studs. But again, it'd be best to consult someone when putting the combination together. __________________ Novi 2000 now spinning off the snout of the 331... Mods Pics

10-11-2004, 02:09 PM	#12
MEDIK418 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA Posts: 780	I hadn't heard about springs breaking but, I haven't been looking either. My son is dictating all this to me from the other side of the world but I'll pass this on to him. The 3/8 stud ratinale makes sense and I've been sitting here this morning trying to decide which to get. I plan on ordering them in about an hour so this is helping a lot. I'll get back later to let you know where we went on this. Thanks again guys. I appreciate it. __________________ 1986 four-eyed LX coupe, 358 Cleveland, Tremec TKO600/centerforce clutch, dish cut Probe forged pistons, comp cams hyd.roller cam, .579/.588@224/230, Edel.performer, 670 holley street avenger, CPR custom built long tubes, ported and polished 4bbl heads, manley valves, beehive springs, MSD peo-billet dist/MSD6AL, fluidamper, 5 lug conv. with 17x8 bullits there's more but it's still not finished yet. Oh, and the oldest boy is turning his 89 GT into a FFR cobra this next summer.

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