DYNO NUMBERS

[TEXSN95]

284 rwhp and 323 ftlbs!!!...its about 335 flywheel hp @ 389 ft lbs assuming a 15% loss.

Here's a breakdown:
1) 269 hp @ 5200 w/ 11.3 310 tq @ 3900 w/ 12.3 A/F with 41 psi FP
2) 275 hp @ 5400 w/ 11.7 313 tq @ 4000 w/ 12.6 w/ 38 psi
3) 278 hp @ 5400 w/ 12.3 311 tq @ 4200 w/ 12.9 w/ 35 35 psi
4) let it cool for 10 minutes
284 hp @ 5300 w/ 11.8 323 tq @ 4000 w/ 12.7 w/ 35psi

On all the runs the intake air temp was about 90 degrees...and it was awesome to hear it
scream all the way up to 6000. Needless to say I was pleased.

Needless to say it was 75 bux well spent.

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Clint L.
White 95 Cobra #3637
58cc GT40X heads with mild porting, Crane 2031 cam, FRPP 65 TB, 1.7s, Cobra intake, homeade cold air, 155lph, pullies, Tokico Illuminas, C springs, GW LCAs, Kenny Brown super subs, Steeda CC plates, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda quadrant, B&M ripper, Kirban FPR, MSD6A, Taylor wires, Mac shorties, off road hpipe, 2 1/2 ultra flows w/ dumps, R hood, Euro clear corners, stock 3.08s
13.61 @ 104.7 w/ 2.22

[Rick 91GT]

Nice Numbers, I think your a little lean though with only a 12.3-12.9 A/F ratio, but you have good numbers in that heat.I can't wait to get mine to the dyno.

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Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

[302 LX Eric]

Nice job!

We are very close in #'s...I made 290 rwhp and 312 rwtq on the dyno. It's nice that you had an a/f meter on, the place I went to didn't.

Again, nice job!
E

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1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

[jimberg]

Great numbers, but it's a shame that the computer will simply adapt and put you right back at the first set of numbers. It will, however, give you a target a/f ratio to which to tune a chip. It is definitely $75 well spent.

Rick91GT, I'm surprised you think that's lean. 13:1 is what would be optimal for power for an NA car. It is interesting to see how rich the computer actually keeps the a/f ratio.



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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[Smokedawg]

Eric LX 302---Where did you get your car dynoed at??

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC and Smog del, rear seat del.

[t_oshea]

TEXSN95-
I got my car dynoed last week and it made 284.8 rwhp, but I wasn't abLe to get any torque readings because I have an MSD-6AL installed. I was just wondering what they did when you dynoed your car to get torque readings.

[jimberg]

Why would torque readings have anything to do with an MSD-6AL? Since HP is a calculation based on Torque and RPMs, how could you get a HP reading without being able to get a torque reading? I'm assuming that they had difficulty probing engine RPMs. That's probably because they tried to probe RPMS after the MSD box and not before.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[Rick 91GT]

Originally posted by jimberg:
Great numbers, but it's a shame that the computer will simply adapt and put you right back at the first set of numbers. It will, however, give you a target a/f ratio to which to tune a chip. It is definitely $75 well spent.

Rick91GT, I'm surprised you think that's lean. 13:1 is what would be optimal for power for an NA car. It is interesting to see how rich the computer actually keeps the a/f ratio.

Well Jim to be honest I was thinking 14.3-14.5 was what I had heard was optimum for a NA car and 12.5 for a blown application.



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Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

[t_oshea]

jimberg-
That's exactly what the problem was. I got hp readings from mph vs. hp which can be converted to figure out rpm, but they said they couldn't get torque readings because they couldn't get the actual engine rpm due to the multiple discharges of the MSD. I guess what I really was asking is, where do you hook up before the MSD?

[89 Cobra LX]

Would 13.5 be running too lean on a N.A. car? My tuner swears up and down that 13.5 is the best for a N.A. car...

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Eric - 89 Mustang LX coupe
302 - Cobra Intake - GT40p heads - TFS stage 1 cam - FRPP 1.6 roller rockers - Naturally Aspirated
3:73 gears - KYB shocks and struts - Eibach springs - HPM Mega-bite Jr lower control arms - HPM upper control arms

[302 LX Eric]

Smokedawg

I went to place in Westerville, OH (a burb of C-Bus). It's called "Passen Motorsports." They mostly specialize in imports, but they let a domestic guy on the rollers.

BTW, I have a MSD6AL on my car and they were able to pull torque readings??? What's the deal?

E

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1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

[Smokedawg]

ERIC--So you paid 75 bucks total. I was going to pay 280 bucks somewhere in Illinios..I am only about 30 minutes from Ohio though. Can you email me the directions on how to get there, or in what town it is in. Thanks
Smokedawg_2000@hotmail.com

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC and Smog del, rear seat del.

[jimberg]

89 Cobra LX, I'm not sure how you wired your ignition, but from what I know, you usually just put some wires between the coil and the stock coil plug. The stock coil plug signals the MSD box and then the MSD box fires the coil. You need to probe RPMs from the back of the stock ignition wire. It's the dark green and yellow wire. Or you can just hook up to whatever the white wire out of your ignition is plugged into.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[jimberg]

Smokedawg, I was pricing a place here in Minnesota today. It was $75 for a couple back to back pulls for a baseline. It was $125/hour for a tweak and tune session. $175/hour if they do the tweaking and tuning.

As a test of their honesty, I asked about what they would do to tune my car. The guy said that about all they could do was tweak the timing. Then he said and fuel pressure if you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I thought to myself, "Uh oh", and then he said, "but in three days you will have lost any gains you made because of the computer". I decided that this was my shop at that point.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[andy669]

Hey Clint, I wanted to ask if those numbers were corrected or uncorrected. You had mentioned that it was about 90 degrees so I'll assume that those were uncorrected. Call over to JMS and get a good chip for some fuel management and you'll be right there. I have the same heads as you. Did you do a competition valve job, or just a little porting?

[TEXSN95]

Thanks guys...I was pretty pleased with it. Something weird though...the friday before the dyno, I ran my best at 13.6 @ 105.7 @ 41 psi w/out vac. Then got it dyoned and picked up 14 rwhp @ 35 psi. A few nights ago I made 2 passes with the same fp, in almost the exact same conditions, and turned a 13.6 @ 104.1. WTF?? I had my best 8th mile time and 60ft, but 3rd just didnt have the kick up top like it used to...it used to pull like a freight train. I bumped it up from 35 to 37 and went from a 103.7 to a 104.1. I dont get it.

Andy669..what do you mean by corrected? The only correction I know of is the 15% drivetrain loss, and yes those are at the wheels. Is there another kind of correction? I bought the heads and they already had $400 of port work...a little on the exhaust side and a valve job.

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Clint L.
White 95 Cobra #3637
58cc GT40X heads with mild porting, Crane 2031 cam, FRPP 65 TB, 1.7s, Cobra intake, homeade cold air, 155lph, pullies, Tokico Illuminas, C springs, GW LCAs, Kenny Brown super subs, Steeda CC plates, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda quadrant, B&M ripper, Kirban FPR, MSD6A, Taylor wires, Mac shorties, off road hpipe, 2 1/2 ultra flows w/ dumps, R hood, Euro clear corners, stock 3.08s
13.61 @ 105.7 w/ 2.22

[This message has been edited by TEXSN95 (edited 07-13-2001).]

[302 LX Eric]

Smokedawg - I will send you an email in a few minutes.

Just as a side note (I will be posting a topic on this later), I just hooked up my JMS chip. I've got three different programs to choose from so it should be interesting.

After the install, I took it out last night and it felt faster, but who knows for sure. Seat of the pants feel is about as accurate as a free tire pressure gauge from your local gas station.

I will be heading to the track next Wednesday night for the real test. Regardless of what happens at the track, I will be back on the dyno to see exactly what each program achieves. I will keep you guys posted.

E

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1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

[jimberg]

Clint,

Did you just completely ignore what I wrote? I wasn't trying to rain on your parade or anything, it's just the reality of the way things work.

In a nutshell, YOU CANNOT ADJUST FUEL PRESSURE AND EXPECT IMPROVEMENTS. If anyone has their doubts about this, you just proved it. The computer has a preset air/fuel ratio that it will maintain. PERIOD.

You can see that to some degree in your own dyno numbers. Look at results 3 vs. 4. You let the engine cool off, which theoretically should help get more air into your cylinders. But look at the A/F ratio - It got richer, not leaner as you would expect. The computer was already adapting to the change in fuel pressure. By the time you drove it home and to the track, the computer recalculated the adjustment tables and started applying them.

Adjusting fuel pressure only allows you to tweak the amount of fuel available for the computer to use. If you only have 19# injectors and running too lean at WOT, you can boost the pressure to allow more fuel to be delivered. That's about all that adjustable fuel pressure regulators can really do for you.

All is not lost, though. You now know that your best air/fuel ratio is 11.8:1 at 5300 and 12.7:1 at 4000. You can tell a chip vender (like JMS) that and they should be able to modify the computer's air/fuel target.

The guys at the dyno shop should have told you this before you even went in. I would have liked to see results from boosted timing, too.

Now get on the phone and order that chip.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 07-13-2001).]

[andy669]

Clint. Corrected numbers mean that the outdoor ambient is not a factor. The dyno program will make all readings relative to a set value. (i think they usually call this SAE) Here, I cant remember exactly what it is. I think its like 70 degrees at a certain humidity. After the dyno session has been recorded, you can usually toggle between corrected (sae) and uncorrected. There is a couple other options in there, but I cant remember what they are. Theres usually not more than a couple horsepower difference between 90 degrees and sae. I was just curious.

Eric. Definatley keep us posted on your JMS chip. If you've read some of my previous posts, you know that I am a big supporter of those guys. At the time, I had 4 programs to choose from and the one called #2 worked the best for me. Not to say that #2 is gonna work best for you, but tuning "over the phone" is not an exact science. But be sure to follow his instructions to the letter. (i.e. timing, fuel pressure) Good Luck.
andy

[TEXSN95]

Yeah the dyno sheet says SAE...but he didnt mention anything about the correction...go figure.

Jimberg...sounds like you are exactly right. I've heard about this, and now I've seen it first hand. I should have disconnedted the battery for 15 min at the track. Now that I think about it, I should have done that after run 1...to get hard evidence about what resetting the EEC does for performance. He said that they run best at 12:1, at 185 degrees, and he said not to go over 14 timing, which is what I have. Thanks jimberg and the others...keep the posts coming :-).

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Clint L.
White 95 Cobra #3637
58cc GT40X heads with mild porting, Crane 2031 cam, FRPP 65 TB, 1.7s, Cobra intake, homeade cold air, 155lph, pullies, Tokico Illuminas, C springs, GW LCAs, Kenny Brown super subs, Steeda CC plates, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda quadrant, B&M ripper, Kirban FPR, MSD6A, Taylor wires, Mac shorties, off road hpipe, 2 1/2 ultra flows w/ dumps, R hood, Euro clear corners, stock 3.08s
13.61 @ 105.7 w/ 2.22