Head Gaskets

[rppngears]

My water pump went bad a little while ago which resulted in my car overheating a couple of times. This of course caused my headgasket to begin failing. Local shops want close to $1000 to do it, and almost all of that is in labor. My question is, how hard is it to change this gasket? I think I am fairly mechanicly inclined, and I have a Hayes manual. I have changed breaks, drum and rotor type, and I do all the little stuff my car needs. Would you guys recommend attempting this, and what is the estimated time?

[chris91LX]

It's alot of work, but nothing that you can't do yourself. I swapped the heads, cam and intake myself over the winter having never worked on a motor before. Your probably going to want to think about some new head bolts, and your gonna need new gaskets for the lower intake too. What really makes it a PITA is if you still have the thermactor tube that runs behind the heads for emmissions.

[rppngears]

How long did it take you to finish it?

[chris91LX]

Originally posted by rppngears
How long did it take you to finish it?

About a month But I wasn't in a hurry, either. I had to pull it all apart, radiator, a/c coil, water pump and all, as I was replacing the cam too. I took my time and made sure I did it right, asked alot of questions. Since your only swapping the head gaskets you shouldn't have to pull anything off the front except the alt and a/c brackets as they have bolts going directly into the heads. You'll need to pull the fuel lines and the wiring harness too to get them out of the way. I wouldn't think it'd take more than a few hours for someone familiar with the swap, you can add a couple hours for inexperience. I'd start on a sat. morning, just to make sure you have plenty of time (including the little preludes where if you don't take a break you'll pull out a hammer and start swinging it angrily). Count on running into little pita problems too, like breaking the oil sending unit and having to replace it and similar minor catastrophes (which always seem to happen just after the parts stores close). Invest in beer to feed knowledgeable friends, and follow the book and you should be ok.

Oh yeah, if you have a/c your PITA factor just went up by about 10 points. The hose that runs around the intake to the compressor is perfectly situated to make your life miserable. You can have the compressor emptied by a shop and disconnect it to give yourself some more room.

[Hethj7]

I pulled my engine without disconnecting the A/C before. There was just enough flex in my hose to bend it back and kind of lay the compressor on the fender. You might give that a try.

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Hethj7
I pulled my engine without disconnecting the A/C before. There was just enough flex in my hose to bend it back and kind of lay the compressor on the fender. You might give that a try.

Exactly. And you dont have to disconnect the fuel line eithier. That and the A/'c compressor can be moved to the passenger side and rested on the fender, out of the way. Just put some towels there to protect your paint.

[HiFlow5 0]

You have to take all the accessories off the front. They all bolt to the heads, not just the ac and alt. Since you have never done this before I suggest you take your time and plan on having the car out commission for a few days to even a week if you encounter a major problem. You will need new head bolts, definitely! If your motor has never been apart your going to need all new gaskets. (head gaskets, lower intake gaskets, upper intake gasket, and valve cover gaskets). When you get the heads off, it might be a good idea to chase the bolt holes in the block with and under sized tap to clean them out of any crud. You will also need to borrow a torque wrench to re-instal the heads. Hope it all goes well! Good luck!

[rppngears]

Would you guys recommend taking this project on considering this is my daily driver?

[Mach 1]

Yeah. go for it. You dont have to have new head bolts, so you can save a few dollars there if you wish. The old head bolts can be re-used with no problems, but you should at least clean them up with a wire brush or somethiing.

I think the hardest part you will have will be setting the rocker arm/valve pre-load. Not difficult, but if you have no idea what your doing, you might be scratching your head.

And dont even attempt the job unless you have a decent set of quality tools.

[srv1]

Mach, how do you not remove the fuel lines when removing the motor or doing a head job? and for using the old head bolts, sure you can, but for the price of new head bolts it definetly worth it.

rocker arm preload? they are pedestal. torue them down on every compression stroke for each cylinder and your done. how do you adjust them? they arent adjustable. unless he gets his heads milled, he may have to use shims, but how do you adjust lifter preload on a non-adjustable rocker?

[PKRWUD]

The earth won't stop spinning if you don't buy new head bolts, but your odds of blowing another head gasket will go up significantly. It's your call. Also, take the heads to a machine shop and have them looked at. Odds are they will need to be surfaced. Plan on being carless for a week. If this is your daily driver, you will need to line up another vehicle for this time, so be prepared. Don't use RTV silicone on the head bolts when you install them into the cleaned out holes in the block. Instead, use a liquid thread sealer (on the lower row of bolts), and engine oil (on the upper row of bolts). ARP's thread sealer is by far the best.

Take care,
~Chris

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by srv1
Mach, how do you not remove the fuel lines when removing the motor or doing a head job? .

I said you dont have to "disconnect" the fuel line, and what I am referring to is opening the spring lock coupling. Most people are under the impression that they must disconnect the line where the spring lock coupling is located at the forward lower manifold, and they worry about how to do this and where to get the tool required for it. If you remove the nut that holds the lower half of the fuel line to the head bolt stud on the forward passenger side head bolt, and pull the top rail off of the injectors, the entire fuel line assembly will move to the side and out of the way without the need to open the line at the spring lock coupling, or whatever that fitting is called... Im sure you know what Im talking about.

Originally posted by srv1

rocker arm preload? they are pedestal. torue them down on every compression stroke for each cylinder and your done. how do you adjust them? they arent adjustable. unless he gets his heads milled, he may have to use shims, but how do you adjust lifter preload on a non-adjustable rocker?

Sounds to me like you answered your own question.

later

[srv1]

Originally posted by Mach 1


I said you dont have to "disconnect" the fuel line, and what I am referring to is opening the spring lock coupling. Most people are under the impression that they must disconnect the line where the spring lock coupling is located at the forward lower manifold, and they worry about how to do this and where to get the tool required for it. If you remove the nut that holds the lower half of the fuel line to the head bolt stud on the forward passenger side head bolt, and pull the top rail off of the injectors, the entire fuel line assembly will move to the side and out of the way without the need to open the line at the spring lock coupling, or whatever that fitting is called... Im sure you know what Im talking about.



Sounds to me like you answered your own question.

later

if you want to take off a whole injector rail vs. a coupler and the tool for that at autozone for $5, go ahead. it just seems like a waste of time and the chance of ripping an injector o-ring. but if that is the way you do it, ok.

check your PM Mach

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by srv1


if you want to take off a whole injector rail vs. a coupler and the tool for that at autozone for $5, go ahead. it just seems like a waste of time and the chance of ripping an injector o-ring. but if that is the way you do it, ok.

check your PM Mach

Man, its such a large amount of work to remove that "whole injector rail" , isnt it? Takes what, 5 minutes max.? And most people dont have a clue what tool they need to disconnect the spring lock, or how to do it, the originator of this post most likely included.

And those injector 0-rings rip all the time...yeah, thats a real problem on these engines... might even be a good time to replace them while the motors apart

Opening the spring locks seems like a waste of time to me, but whatever, it can be done eithier way.

Check your private message. I think we have a problem.

[PKRWUD]

I've seen where a guy used a hacksaw to separate the fuel line from the fuel rail because he couldn't figure out the coupling. That being said, once you get the hang of it, you can do it in your sleep. I think it's worthwhile to post both suggestions. For professional mechanics like James, it's a whole lot easier to just undo the coupling, and leave the rail alone, but for the every day Joe (no offense, Joe ), Chris' suggestion can save them some time and potential headaches.

James-
Think of it this way: have you ever changed the valve cover gaskets on an Infinity J30? Book time is 5 hours for just one. Took me almost 2 days. I could now do it in 3 hours, tops, but that's because I'm familiar with it, but I would never expect a novice to know the "right" way to do everything that's involved, so I might suggest some other options that may not be the quickest method, but will work for them.

Okay, crappy analogy. Nevermind.



Take care,
~Chris

[Mach 1]

Chris,
Well said and fair enough. James is, however, not as open minded as you and felt it neccesary to send me a private message that was rather juvenile, at best.

Too bad he cant see things as clearly as you.

later

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Mach 1
Too bad he cant see things as clearly as you.

LOL. In all fairness, he really is a pretty good guy, and he knows what he knows from experience, which is a refreshing change from so many of the magazine article quoting know-it-alls (not that quoting a mag is bad, but not if that's a persons only source of info). He's a character though, too, and LIKE YOU, will speak his mind without being asked.

When you catch me in a good mood, I will go out of my way to try and explain things to people in terms they can understand. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily open minded, though! I'm usually pretty damn stubborn, actually, but I appreciate what you're trying to say.

By the way, mechanical gauges will ALWAYS be superior to electric ones.



Take care,
~Chris

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by PKRWUD


He's a character though, too, and LIKE YOU, will speak his mind without being asked.
Chris

Lol..yes, I agree with you there, but if you read the PM he sent me, you would better understand my current dislike for him. Enough said on that subject.

Originally posted by PKRWUD


By the way, mechanical gauges will ALWAYS be superior to electric ones.



Take care,
~Chris

Lmao...Now thats one thing we will NEVER agree on..

later

[srv1]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I've seen where a guy used a hacksaw to separate the fuel line from the fuel rail because he couldn't figure out the coupling. That being said, once you get the hang of it, you can do it in your sleep. I think it's worthwhile to post both suggestions. For professional mechanics like James, it's a whole lot easier to just undo the coupling, and leave the rail alone, but for the every day Joe (no offense, Joe ), Chris' suggestion can save them some time and potential headaches.

Well, if he is a beginner, why wounldnt you want to teach him how to do it the correct way the first time rather than take a chance of breaking an injector or ripping an o-ring either when you uninstall it or reinstall it and it is harder for a beginner to seat in the injectors without breaking them. Haynes manual has a detail picture of how the coupler works. i assume he would at least have a manual. now if he couldnt figure out the coupler, he can ask one of his friends, ask a mechanic or ask here on how a coupler comes apart. but IF he couldnt figure it out, THEN i would direct him to take the rail off, but i would tell him to do it vice-versa first. the tool is cheap anyways, and if he his going to be working on his Stang, then the tool and the knowledge of taking off the coupler would be a wise investment, dont you think?

James-
Think of it this way: have you ever changed the valve cover gaskets on an Infinity J30? Book time is 5 hours for just one. Took me almost 2 days. I could now do it in 3 hours, tops, but that's because I'm familiar with it, but I would never expect a novice to know the "right" way to do everything that's involved, so I might suggest some other options that may not be the quickest method, but will work for them.

i see what you are saying Chris, but you had the option of asking someone you know, right? did you have a manual when you did it? how about ask someone on here? but you are an experienced mechanic, so you should know the steps to take when tackling a unfamiliar job. rppngears asked if he could tackle a job for his daily driver. the answer is YES. i and others on here want to teach him the RIGHT way first time so he knows how it works and when he goes to do it again, he will know how. rppngears, when you do your head gaskets, careful not to lose the DOWEL PIN that sits in the block. SOMEONE here thinks you can get by without it. YOU CANT!! go get another one at the dealer if you accidently lose it. DO NOT put the cylinder heads on without these regaurdless of the bind that you may be in!!

Mach. from what i read in your posts, you sound like a backyard mechanic when it comes to automobiles. anyone who thinks he can get away without putting in a dowel pin in a head/block, has got to be a backyard mechanic or talking from his asz, which you do perfectly. yours truly, the juvenile delinquent, James

[PKRWUD]

Well, on that note, it's time for a story.

A man stumbles up to the only other patron in the bar and asks if he could buy him a drink.
"Why of course," comes the reply.
The first man then asks, "Where are you from?" I'm from Ireland," replies the second man. The first man responds, "You don't say. I'm from Ireland too! Let's have another round to Ireland."
"Of course," replies the second man, and they both pour back their drinks.
Curious, the first man then asks, "Where in Ireland are you from?", "Dublin," comes the reply.
"I can't believe it says the first man. "I'm from Dublin too! Let's have another drink to Dublin!" The men both continue drinking. Curiosity strikes again and the first man asks, "What school did you go to?", "St. Mary's," replied the second man. "I graduated in '62." "This is unbelievable," the first man says. "I went to St. Mary's and I graduated in '62, too!"
About that time, in comes one of the regulars and sits down at the bar. "What's been going on?" he asks the bartender. "Nothing much," replies the bartender. "The O'Mally twins are drunk again."

Take care,
~Chris