WTF is wrong with my EEC??? Need Serious HELP!!(long)

10-18-2001, 11:07 PM

I've been having problems with my EEC ever since I got the car about 6 months ago. If you search my previous topics, they've all been related. I pulled 10 codes from it when I bought a code scanner. They were 51, 22, 53, 54, 35, 67, 81, 82, 85, 95. I replaced the ECT, and a few of the codes went away for a day and then came back. My TPS is one example of what's going on. I went to set it today and it read 5vdc from the green and orange wires! If I moved it, it didn't change. Oh and I could only get a reading if I grounded the multimeter to the grounding strap from the motor. If I used the black wire for the TPS, I got no reading at all. I replaced the TPS, but it didn't change anything. The only noticable problem that I have is that behind the intake in the wiring from the white 10 pin connection, there's an orange wire that someone has stripped the end off of and it's just sticking out of the wiring. It doesn't go anywhere. I measured it's voltage and it read 0 with the ignition off and 3v KOEO. I don't know who supposedly converted this car to Mass Air from Speed Density, but I don't think they did a very good job. It doesn't idle right, it won't start hot, and none of the voltage readings are correct. After it warms up, it seems to run alright until I shut it off again and have to wait 20 minutes for it to start again. How can I find out what EEC I have? Any good wiring diagrams out there for it? I have no idea what else to do and my wife is pissed because I can't get it running right and keep spending money on it with no luck. The cap and rotor are 6 months old, new fuel pump and new fuel pump relay, new TFI module, no smog equipment or canister purge. The rest is in my sig. Any suggestions?
Dave

------------------
Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5
306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter

PKRWUD · 10-18-2001, 11:47 PM

You are supposed to get 5vdc at the orange wire. It's the wire that supplies the reference voltage to the TPS. You check the sensor between the green and black wires.

This sounds like a mess.

Disconnect your battery for an hour, and then perform a KOEO and a KOER test, and post the results.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-19-2001, 12:17 AM

I knew about the orange wire with 5v, but I also got 5 from the green wire. I had to use an engine ground because I got no reading from the black wire, however when I used the black wire as a ground to test a different connection, it worked there, just not on the TPS. Wierd huh? Anyways, the battery is disconnected and I'll post with KOEO results after an hour. From my wiring diagram, it seems that the orange wire is the "Fuel Sensor Ground." Where should that ground to?

10-19-2001, 01:11 AM

I hooked the battery back up and ran a KOEO, but I got the same codes:51, 22, 53, 54, 35, 67, 81, 82, 85, 95. I grounded that orange wire also. Resetting the computer seemed to make no change. What else should I try?

PKRWUD · 10-19-2001, 05:19 AM

Dude. Too bad you don't live closer, I could make some money off you. Okay, there are several things I'm going to cover here, but there is one thing I need you to do first: Disconnect the TPS, and run the KOEO test (with the TPS disconnected). Ignore all codes except a code 63. Let me know if a code 63 comes up.

Second, do you still have your EGR valve installed and hooked up, or was it removed with the other smog equipment?

Third, codes 81, 82 and 85 are due to removed smog equipment. Ignore them.

Fourth, the ECM you are using is from a car with an automatic transmission, so you can also ignore code 67.

Fifth, the orange wire at the 10 pin connector is the ground wire for the oxygen sensors. It needs to be grounded.

Sixth, If you no longer have an EGR valve hooked up to the system, then ignore code 35. If the EGR is still hooked up, see the next paragraph. It shares the same signal return (black) wire.

Okay, now for the rest of it. The ECM is saying that your air temp sensor, your engine coolant temp sensor, your TPS, EVP, and your bp sensor are all not responding. The black wire that goes to the TPS is the same black wire that goes to the above sensors, and it doesn't appear to be connected to the ECM very well. What you are going to have to do is this:
Disconnect the ECM. Find the signal return wire at the harness connector to the ECM. It will be a black wire with a white tracer, and should be in the 6th spot from one end at the plug, give or take a couple spaces. Connect a long wire lead to that pin by piercing the wire with a safety pin and attaching a wire to the safety pin. Run that wire out the door and into the engine compartment. Attach one lead from a DMM that is set to measure ohms, on the 10 scale, to that wire. Go to and disconnect each of the following sensors: ACT, ECT, BP, TPS, and EVP if the EGR valve is still connected. Turn on the DMM (set to ohms). With the other lead from the DMM, touch the pin in each connector that the black wire goes to, and write down the reading that is on the DMM, and post them here. It is very important that you do this exactly as I have instructed you to, and that you correctly tell me the amount of ohms at each sensors black wire.

That should keep you busy for a while. Just remember, NO SHORTCUTS! Do it just like I said, or it will be worthless. You can email me at pkrwuds@pacbell.net if that's easier than doing this here.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 10-19-2001).]

10-19-2001, 10:18 AM

Sounds like a plan to me. I'll get on it after work and let you know what happens. Thanks a lot,
Dave

10-19-2001, 08:25 PM

Well, I did it, but the multimeter I have isn't digital. I got a 0 reading for the ACT, ECT, BAP, TPS, EVP, and the test connector. According to my diagram, that's everywhere that wire goes. What should I do now? I also did get a code 63 with the TPS disconnected.

[This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-20-2001).]

10-20-2001, 11:21 PM

I've spent last night and all day today tracing wires without much success. I still have messed up voltages at my TPS. If I put the negative terminal from a multimeter to an engine ground, and test the TPS wires, all three of them have almost 5 volts. If I put the negative terminal to the black wire at the TPS and test the wires, I get .001 at the green wire and about the same reading at the orange wire. I have no idea what the hell is going on. I have an EEC-IV out of an AOD mass air car. How can I tell if the computer is messed up? Anyone know of anyway to test this?

Mach 1 · 10-21-2001, 01:33 PM

yeah, swap it out with a known good one. I have a spare, but your to far away. Anyway, good luck.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

10-22-2001, 10:17 PM

Well, I replaced my A9P with a friend of mine's A9L, and ran a KOEO test. There was a total of 4 codes: 81, 82, 85, and 95. The first three are things that aren't hooked up so I'm not worried about them. The one that I need to fix is the 95. I have a new fuel pump and a new fuel relay under the driver's seat. Is there a ground somewhere I need to check out? Where is it? The car won't start, and I don't know why, other than getting this code. Could it be a fuel filter? It gets fuel to the schrader valve when the motor is turned over. It's getting spark to the distributor cap. Am I just overlooking something? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Dave

------------------
Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5
306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter, MSD 6AL and coil

[This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-22-2001).]

Mach 1 · 10-23-2001, 02:59 AM

what is code 95? I dont have my book with me.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

PKRWUD · 10-23-2001, 05:36 AM

I should have read this before replying to your email. Oh well. As far as the code 95, that is a code that usually comes with a no start condition, and is usually due to a bad fuel pump relay. Since your engine starts, and you have replaced the relay, it becomes tougher. Does your fuel pump come on for two seconds and then turn off when the key is turned on?

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

PKRWUD · 10-23-2001, 05:41 AM

DUH!

I just reread your last post and see that you do have a no start condition. First, check the inertia swith in the back. Make sure it is reset. Second, check the fuel pump ground. Third, check the power feed to the pump. If it doesn't receive any power at all, check it at the relay. if the relay is putting out power, and the pump isn't receiving it, there is an open in that wire.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-23-2001, 09:53 AM

What bothers me is that I know that the schrader valve is getting fuel when the motor is turned over. Doesn't this kinda rule out the bad fuel circuit problem??

PKRWUD · 10-23-2001, 10:03 AM

No. What's the pressure at the valve?

You have had a code 95 with two different ECM's, and it won't start. Sounds like a fuel problem.

Check the three things I suggested above, and the problem will likely reveal itself.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 10-23-2001).]

10-23-2001, 11:36 AM

well, I'm at work now, but when I get home I'll do it. I know the inertia switch doesn't work because when the car ran, I would push the button and it wouldn't cut the car off. It would shut it off if I unplugged the switch while it was running. Last night I jumpered the two wires that go to the switch and the car still wouldn't start. I'll check the power before and after the relay and try to find the pump ground. Anyone know exactly where it's at. Obviously I assume it's coming from the pump, but if I knew which wire it was, maybe I wouldn't have to drop the tank to find it.
Thanks again,
Dave

10-23-2001, 10:24 PM

Son of a $%&@#, Mother F*#$@! Sh1T!!!!!! I didn't find anything wrong. The pump is turning fine, the relay works fine, the inertia switch isn't the problem. I don't have a freaking clue why it won't start. The only thing I found that makes me wonder is according to my wiring diagram, in pin #19, on my EEC, I should have one of the wires from my relay. It's not there, and it doesn't appear to ever have been. I spliced into it and ran a wire to that pin, but it didn't start anyways so I'm still stumped. This is really starting to piss me off (and my wife's pissed which isn't helping matters). To anyone who's ever had a code 95 in the past, what fixed your problems? I've ran a search but haven't found any answers. Could it be something else that could cause this Secondary Fuel Circuit code?

10-23-2001, 11:35 PM

Well d@mn. After doing some research on MAF conversions, I realized that the very wire I just described is probably causing my code 95. When the conversion was done on my car, the wire that monitors the fuel system was not ran, therefore causing a code 95. I went outside just now and ran that wire and sure as hell, the code went away! I now only have codes 81, 82, and 85. Those, as PKRWUD already said, are smog related and all that equipment isn't on my car. Therefore, I have a stang that won't start and no codes to tell me why. I have spark to the plugs, fuel to the schrader valve and no problems getting air into my MAF. While cranking the motor, I've moved the distributor all around and had to luck. I haven't pulled my distributor lately, so unless changing the EEC to a good one may have required me to change my timing, then that shouldn't be an issue. As far as compression is concerned, the motor isn't even a year old and I haven't had any problems with it when it runs. My fuel filter is kinda old, and I don't have a guage to check fuel pressure, but other than that, I HAVE NO IDEA what could be wrong. My TFI is new, and my fuel system seems to be working fine. Plugs look fine and wires are new. Mods are in my sig and I will welcome any possibilities at this point, even the obvious ones due to the fact that my brain is so fried at this point that I'm sure I may easily be overlooking something that would usually seem obvious. PKRWUD, thanks for all of your help so far, and thanks to you, we've eliminated some possibilities. What next? Anyone?

------------------
Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5
306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter, MSD 6AL and coil

[This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-24-2001).]

PKRWUD · 10-24-2001, 06:47 AM

Now I'm confused. In your first post, you said it starts, but now it doesn't. When did it become a no-start condition? Before this goes any further, let's cut the possibilities down.

1) Disconnect the battery for 15 minutes and then retest KOEO. What codes are present?

2) I need for you to verify whether or not fuel is being injected when you are trying to start it. Do this for me by trying to start it for 10 seconds, and then removing a spark plug. Is the plug wet or dry?

3) Disconnect the TPS. With KOEO, measure the voltage between the orange wire and the black wire at the harness side of the connector. What's the voltage?

4) Key off, reconnect the TPS. Backprobe the green and black wires. With KOEO, what's the voltage with the throttle closed? at WOT?

Answer the no-start question, do those 4 things, and post the results, and we'll go from there. Otherwise, we're just chasing our tails.

Take care,
-Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop

My teams site: Jim Porter Racing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-24-2001, 08:23 PM

Well first for the no start condition, I had been having a problem with it not starting when warm for about a month before this post. Then about 3 days ago, it wouldn't start in the morning before work, but after work I got in it and if fired up. That was the last time it started. I haven't been able to start it since.

I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes, and got KOEO codes: 81, 82, 85. (nothing new)

I turned it over for 10 seconds and pulled the plug. It was wet and smelled like gas except where spark was on the tip. On the base of the plug (right after the threads end) it was wet.

I disconnected the TPS and got 5.2V between the orange and black wires on the harness side.

I reconnected it and got 1V between the green and black wires and no throttle and 4.6V at WOT. I know the TPS should read under 1V, and I can't adjust it anymore, so I guess I'm gonna get a drill and widen the holes a little bit. Unfortunately I don't have a digital MM, so I'm gonna have to guestimate. On a 10 guage, it's still hard to tell the difference between .90 and .95.

These are your answers, I'm gonna try to get the TPS adjusted down to a little below 1. I'll post what results are.

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10-18-2001, 11:07 PM	#1
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	WTF is wrong with my EEC??? Need Serious HELP!!(long) I've been having problems with my EEC ever since I got the car about 6 months ago. If you search my previous topics, they've all been related. I pulled 10 codes from it when I bought a code scanner. They were 51, 22, 53, 54, 35, 67, 81, 82, 85, 95. I replaced the ECT, and a few of the codes went away for a day and then came back. My TPS is one example of what's going on. I went to set it today and it read 5vdc from the green and orange wires! If I moved it, it didn't change. Oh and I could only get a reading if I grounded the multimeter to the grounding strap from the motor. If I used the black wire for the TPS, I got no reading at all. I replaced the TPS, but it didn't change anything. The only noticable problem that I have is that behind the intake in the wiring from the white 10 pin connection, there's an orange wire that someone has stripped the end off of and it's just sticking out of the wiring. It doesn't go anywhere. I measured it's voltage and it read 0 with the ignition off and 3v KOEO. I don't know who supposedly converted this car to Mass Air from Speed Density, but I don't think they did a very good job. It doesn't idle right, it won't start hot, and none of the voltage readings are correct. After it warms up, it seems to run alright until I shut it off again and have to wait 20 minutes for it to start again. How can I find out what EEC I have? Any good wiring diagrams out there for it? I have no idea what else to do and my wife is pissed because I can't get it running right and keep spending money on it with no luck. The cap and rotor are 6 months old, new fuel pump and new fuel pump relay, new TFI module, no smog equipment or canister purge. The rest is in my sig. Any suggestions? Dave ------------------ Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5 306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter

10-18-2001, 11:47 PM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	You are supposed to get 5vdc at the orange wire. It's the wire that supplies the reference voltage to the TPS. You check the sensor between the green and black wires. This sounds like a mess. Disconnect your battery for an hour, and then perform a KOEO and a KOER test, and post the results. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-19-2001, 12:17 AM	#3
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	I knew about the orange wire with 5v, but I also got 5 from the green wire. I had to use an engine ground because I got no reading from the black wire, however when I used the black wire as a ground to test a different connection, it worked there, just not on the TPS. Wierd huh? Anyways, the battery is disconnected and I'll post with KOEO results after an hour. From my wiring diagram, it seems that the orange wire is the "Fuel Sensor Ground." Where should that ground to?

10-19-2001, 01:11 AM	#4
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	I hooked the battery back up and ran a KOEO, but I got the same codes:51, 22, 53, 54, 35, 67, 81, 82, 85, 95. I grounded that orange wire also. Resetting the computer seemed to make no change. What else should I try?

10-19-2001, 05:19 AM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Dude. Too bad you don't live closer, I could make some money off you. Okay, there are several things I'm going to cover here, but there is one thing I need you to do first: Disconnect the TPS, and run the KOEO test (with the TPS disconnected). Ignore all codes except a code 63. Let me know if a code 63 comes up. Second, do you still have your EGR valve installed and hooked up, or was it removed with the other smog equipment? Third, codes 81, 82 and 85 are due to removed smog equipment. Ignore them. Fourth, the ECM you are using is from a car with an automatic transmission, so you can also ignore code 67. Fifth, the orange wire at the 10 pin connector is the ground wire for the oxygen sensors. It needs to be grounded. Sixth, If you no longer have an EGR valve hooked up to the system, then ignore code 35. If the EGR is still hooked up, see the next paragraph. It shares the same signal return (black) wire. Okay, now for the rest of it. The ECM is saying that your air temp sensor, your engine coolant temp sensor, your TPS, EVP, and your bp sensor are all not responding. The black wire that goes to the TPS is the same black wire that goes to the above sensors, and it doesn't appear to be connected to the ECM very well. What you are going to have to do is this: Disconnect the ECM. Find the signal return wire at the harness connector to the ECM. It will be a black wire with a white tracer, and should be in the 6th spot from one end at the plug, give or take a couple spaces. Connect a long wire lead to that pin by piercing the wire with a safety pin and attaching a wire to the safety pin. Run that wire out the door and into the engine compartment. Attach one lead from a DMM that is set to measure ohms, on the 10 scale, to that wire. Go to and disconnect each of the following sensors: ACT, ECT, BP, TPS, and EVP if the EGR valve is still connected. Turn on the DMM (set to ohms). With the other lead from the DMM, touch the pin in each connector that the black wire goes to, and write down the reading that is on the DMM, and post them here. It is very important that you do this exactly as I have instructed you to, and that you correctly tell me the amount of ohms at each sensors black wire. That should keep you busy for a while. Just remember, NO SHORTCUTS! Do it just like I said, or it will be worthless. You can email me at pkrwuds@pacbell.net if that's easier than doing this here. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 10-19-2001).]

10-19-2001, 10:18 AM	#6
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Sounds like a plan to me. I'll get on it after work and let you know what happens. Thanks a lot, Dave

10-19-2001, 08:25 PM	#7
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I did it, but the multimeter I have isn't digital. I got a 0 reading for the ACT, ECT, BAP, TPS, EVP, and the test connector. According to my diagram, that's everywhere that wire goes. What should I do now? I also did get a code 63 with the TPS disconnected. [This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-19-2001).] [This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-20-2001).]

10-20-2001, 11:21 PM	#8
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	I've spent last night and all day today tracing wires without much success. I still have messed up voltages at my TPS. If I put the negative terminal from a multimeter to an engine ground, and test the TPS wires, all three of them have almost 5 volts. If I put the negative terminal to the black wire at the TPS and test the wires, I get .001 at the green wire and about the same reading at the orange wire. I have no idea what the hell is going on. I have an EEC-IV out of an AOD mass air car. How can I tell if the computer is messed up? Anyone know of anyway to test this?

10-21-2001, 01:33 PM	#9
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	yeah, swap it out with a known good one. I have a spare, but your to far away. Anyway, good luck. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

10-22-2001, 10:17 PM	#10
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Well, I replaced my A9P with a friend of mine's A9L, and ran a KOEO test. There was a total of 4 codes: 81, 82, 85, and 95. The first three are things that aren't hooked up so I'm not worried about them. The one that I need to fix is the 95. I have a new fuel pump and a new fuel relay under the driver's seat. Is there a ground somewhere I need to check out? Where is it? The car won't start, and I don't know why, other than getting this code. Could it be a fuel filter? It gets fuel to the schrader valve when the motor is turned over. It's getting spark to the distributor cap. Am I just overlooking something? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Dave ------------------ Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5 306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter, MSD 6AL and coil [This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-22-2001).]

10-23-2001, 02:59 AM	#11
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	what is code 95? I dont have my book with me. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

10-23-2001, 05:36 AM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I should have read this before replying to your email. Oh well. As far as the code 95, that is a code that usually comes with a no start condition, and is usually due to a bad fuel pump relay. Since your engine starts, and you have replaced the relay, it becomes tougher. Does your fuel pump come on for two seconds and then turn off when the key is turned on? Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-23-2001, 05:41 AM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	DUH! I just reread your last post and see that you do have a no start condition. First, check the inertia swith in the back. Make sure it is reset. Second, check the fuel pump ground. Third, check the power feed to the pump. If it doesn't receive any power at all, check it at the relay. if the relay is putting out power, and the pump isn't receiving it, there is an open in that wire. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-23-2001, 09:53 AM	#14
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	What bothers me is that I know that the schrader valve is getting fuel when the motor is turned over. Doesn't this kinda rule out the bad fuel circuit problem??

10-23-2001, 10:03 AM	#15
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	No. What's the pressure at the valve? You have had a code 95 with two different ECM's, and it won't start. Sounds like a fuel problem. Check the three things I suggested above, and the problem will likely reveal itself. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 10-23-2001).]

10-23-2001, 11:36 AM	#16
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	well, I'm at work now, but when I get home I'll do it. I know the inertia switch doesn't work because when the car ran, I would push the button and it wouldn't cut the car off. It would shut it off if I unplugged the switch while it was running. Last night I jumpered the two wires that go to the switch and the car still wouldn't start. I'll check the power before and after the relay and try to find the pump ground. Anyone know exactly where it's at. Obviously I assume it's coming from the pump, but if I knew which wire it was, maybe I wouldn't have to drop the tank to find it. Thanks again, Dave

10-23-2001, 10:24 PM	#17
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Son of a $%&@#, Mother F*#$@! Sh1T!!!!!! I didn't find anything wrong. The pump is turning fine, the relay works fine, the inertia switch isn't the problem. I don't have a freaking clue why it won't start. The only thing I found that makes me wonder is according to my wiring diagram, in pin #19, on my EEC, I should have one of the wires from my relay. It's not there, and it doesn't appear to ever have been. I spliced into it and ran a wire to that pin, but it didn't start anyways so I'm still stumped. This is really starting to piss me off (and my wife's pissed which isn't helping matters). To anyone who's ever had a code 95 in the past, what fixed your problems? I've ran a search but haven't found any answers. Could it be something else that could cause this Secondary Fuel Circuit code?

10-23-2001, 11:35 PM	#18
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Well d@mn. After doing some research on MAF conversions, I realized that the very wire I just described is probably causing my code 95. When the conversion was done on my car, the wire that monitors the fuel system was not ran, therefore causing a code 95. I went outside just now and ran that wire and sure as hell, the code went away! I now only have codes 81, 82, and 85. Those, as PKRWUD already said, are smog related and all that equipment isn't on my car. Therefore, I have a stang that won't start and no codes to tell me why. I have spark to the plugs, fuel to the schrader valve and no problems getting air into my MAF. While cranking the motor, I've moved the distributor all around and had to luck. I haven't pulled my distributor lately, so unless changing the EEC to a good one may have required me to change my timing, then that shouldn't be an issue. As far as compression is concerned, the motor isn't even a year old and I haven't had any problems with it when it runs. My fuel filter is kinda old, and I don't have a guage to check fuel pressure, but other than that, I HAVE NO IDEA what could be wrong. My TFI is new, and my fuel system seems to be working fine. Plugs look fine and wires are new. Mods are in my sig and I will welcome any possibilities at this point, even the obvious ones due to the fact that my brain is so fried at this point that I'm sure I may easily be overlooking something that would usually seem obvious. PKRWUD, thanks for all of your help so far, and thanks to you, we've eliminated some possibilities. What next? Anyone? ------------------ Dave & Robin 88 GT, T5 306, polished crank, Speed Pro Powerforged pistons, ARP rod bolts, underdrive Crank pulley, 73mm MAF, Xtreme Energy Cam, 3.73's, 1-5/8 unequal length headers, Offroad H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters, turn-downs, King Cobra Clutch, Steeda adjustable clutch cable with firewall adjuster, 190lph fuel pump, Hurst Shifter, MSD 6AL and coil [This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-24-2001).] [This message has been edited by D&R Stang (edited 10-24-2001).]

10-24-2001, 06:47 AM	#19
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Now I'm confused. In your first post, you said it starts, but now it doesn't. When did it become a no-start condition? Before this goes any further, let's cut the possibilities down. 1) Disconnect the battery for 15 minutes and then retest KOEO. What codes are present? 2) I need for you to verify whether or not fuel is being injected when you are trying to start it. Do this for me by trying to start it for 10 seconds, and then removing a spark plug. Is the plug wet or dry? 3) Disconnect the TPS. With KOEO, measure the voltage between the orange wire and the black wire at the harness side of the connector. What's the voltage? 4) Key off, reconnect the TPS. Backprobe the green and black wires. With KOEO, what's the voltage with the throttle closed? at WOT? Answer the no-start question, do those 4 things, and post the results, and we'll go from there. Otherwise, we're just chasing our tails. Take care, -Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: Peckerwoods Pit Stop My teams site: Jim Porter Racing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN.

10-24-2001, 08:23 PM	#20
D&R Stang Guest Posts: n/a	Well first for the no start condition, I had been having a problem with it not starting when warm for about a month before this post. Then about 3 days ago, it wouldn't start in the morning before work, but after work I got in it and if fired up. That was the last time it started. I haven't been able to start it since. I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes, and got KOEO codes: 81, 82, 85. (nothing new) I turned it over for 10 seconds and pulled the plug. It was wet and smelled like gas except where spark was on the tip. On the base of the plug (right after the threads end) it was wet. I disconnected the TPS and got 5.2V between the orange and black wires on the harness side. I reconnected it and got 1V between the green and black wires and no throttle and 4.6V at WOT. I know the TPS should read under 1V, and I can't adjust it anymore, so I guess I'm gonna get a drill and widen the holes a little bit. Unfortunately I don't have a digital MM, so I'm gonna have to guestimate. On a 10 guage, it's still hard to tell the difference between .90 and .95. These are your answers, I'm gonna try to get the TPS adjusted down to a little below 1. I'll post what results are.