Problem restarting hot motor..

[crazypete]

I'm running a carb with no choke. When the engine is dead cold, I turn the key and it starts right up no problems. After hotrodding around for a while or highway cruising, when I try to start the car, it feels like the starter is fighting something, turns over once, stops, fights, turns over a few more times then slowly starts to spin up the motor. I can get it started this way with a lot of extra gas pedal stoping.

What am I doing wrong here? Could it be the PS pump? It seems like it is straight dead when I first start the car and gives no power to my steering (despite my adding fluid to it all the time to keep the level up) and whines all the way until 2-3 mins later when it quiets down and starts working. Just my guess

Thanks

Crazy Pete

[429mustang]

Sounds like your starter is absorbing too much heat from the headers/exhaust while your driving around. I'd go get a heat shield or thermal wrap from jeg's/summit. My car did the same thing for a while, then I broke an ear off the starter and got a new one, it started fine even after I drove around for a while. The problem did start to come back though after a few months though. I'd say it;s possible the timing may be too far advanced, but that would probably do it even when it was cold. Definitely try and insulate the starter.

[crazypete]

Funny thing is that the cats are nowhere near the starter though: they are all the way back by the muffler flanges (I use a pair of high flow bricks on an h-pipe). I've got some header wrap, maybe I'll wrap the starter in it =P

[Dark Knight]

either the starter or battery are going bad... probably the starter..
pull it out and have it tested...

[LX5liter]

Also check all your connections. A bad ground can also do what you describe as well as a heat soaked starter.
It also sounds like your PS pump has seen better days, but I doubt if its the cause of your starting problems. Try pulling the belt off to see if it makes a difference starting when its warm.

[crazypete]

Yeah, this car has a history of bad grounds (hence the carb: good ole fasion springs and vacuum diaphrams, no computers here. I find it funny that I'm so anti computer when I'm a programmer). It should be enough that there is a negative cable from the battery in the trunk (cobra battery, man... this thing can jumpstart a schoolbus(from experience)) directly to the cylinder head, right? Thats an awful lot of ground. I've never heard of a starter getting heatsoaked, but I'll wrap it up and see what happens.

Just wanted to make sure that this wasnt a function of some strange residual cylinder pressure of any kind

thanks guys!

[LX5liter]

Try running another ground directly to the frame close to the battery. Some people swear this makes all the difference in the world. I Know on my old big block '79 it would do the exact thing you describe, and when I moved the battery back to the front it cured all the problems.

[Cait85GT5.0]

my car does the same exact thing.... when i swaped heads my exhaust shifted and the header is quite close to the starter now... when its hot it is a pain to start but cold it starts beautifully... i'm either going to get a mini starter or put a heat shield up there....
Cait

[crazypete]

I DID in fact put in some mac 1 5/8 headers instead of the rusted out stock ones (which, by the way, I'm disappointed in the coating for the mac's, they rusted through the coating in a month). Funny thing is I no longer have a cat anywhere near the starter so heat problems should be less.

I did try the simple ground first: I simply used the short provided cable and ran it to the chassis next to it's mounting point in the spare well (I have it centered rather than side mounted). When I turn the car to start, I hear a loud CLICK!!! and all the power goes out until I unplug the battery and wait a few minutes. It's funny but it seems like there's a saftey switch that recycles when the battery is unplugged and I'm like 95% sure that no such switch exists. Yes the battery is chock full of charge cause I have an "umbilical chord" consisting of a marine battery charger that is constantly hooked up (lets me listen to obnoxiously loud rap music and rattle the garage doors as I work). After this incidient, I ran a pack of 12 (?) - 12 guage wires to the front and attached them directly to one of the power steering bracket mount bolts with an eye (I didnt have a battery cable with enough umph in a 25 foot rendition).

Are those gear reduction lightweight starters more heat resistant than the stockies? (Ever had anyone bench test a starter for you? Oh it's so cool! It sounds like an 8 barrel minigun! )Weeeeeeeeeer!)

[Stang_ROTY]

THis is a COMMON problem that I've been facing since I "finished"my car last year. I have been all over the web forums talking to people about this. Here are the facts:

For the most part, only us guys with relocated batteries are having this problem.

Both guys with longtube and shortube headers have the problem

Bad grounds are usually in the mix

Starters usually won't help. I have a new one (and on the '93, the stock was a mini), and most everyone else I've talked to has the problem too, regardless of the starter.

Bottom line is that we are all facing this problem and should work together to find the solution. I am having an Auto-Electrical shop owner take a look at this problem Thursday, and I'll get back here and post results.

Do me a favor, find a digital voltmeter and check the voltage at the negative terminal. Mine was at -2.4, then it went down to -1.7 once I sanded the area where my battery is grounded, whic by the way, is at the gas tank strap (not a good place and plan on moving it)

[richd]

I've been having similar problems...but my battery is in the stock location. I've actually had smoke puff through the hood from this. Here's the history:

Originally had a problem with the starter not engaging and losing all power as soon as the key went to START (Note to crazypete: there is a silver circuit breaker on the starter solenoid that causes this). It would eventually start if I waited and retryed multiple times. I put a new starter in and the problem went away...for a while.

After a couple months it happened again. Mostly it would just crank slowly, but one time I noticed the smoke was coming from near the battery! I checked around and noticed the battery to body ground was heavily corroded and very hot! So I crimped some spade connectors onto a couple pieces of similar guage wire and replaced the ground. Voila! Started right up with no hesitation.

That worked for a while but now it's starting to crank slowly again. I looked at the connections and they are starting to corrode a bit. So I think the problem is maintaining a good ground at that point.

It's possible that the combination of types of metal on the body/spade/wire are prone to corrosion when used together. Or it could be heat related, maybe I need a much heavier guage wire. But if that's the case, the ground to the block should be taking the brunt of the starter current. Maybe the ground to the block is not what it should be.

crazypete - Your P/S system may need to be bled. Idle the engine and turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times and check the fluid level. Maybe at some point the fluid level got too low and air got in the system. Just a thought....

Hope this helps spark some ideas,

Rich D.

[richd]

Stang_ROTY:

You shouldn't be getting any negative voltages. Are you holding the negative DMM wire on the battery? If not, then just reverse the leads.

At any rate, anything near 2 volts is way too much voltage between the negative post and ANY ground point. What guage wire are you using for your grounds? I suspect either the wire isn't beefy enough or your grounding points aren't making good contact. Seems the latter might be more likely based on what you saw after sanding. Check your crimps also.

Good luck,

Rich D.

[Stang_ROTY]

Rich D,

Thanks for the comments. I'm holding the DMM at the copper between the terminal and the rubber surrounding the wire. There's just enough wire exposed for me to get a reading. To answer the question about the gauage wire, yes it is small. Well, smaller than the positive battery cable running up to the front of the car. So based on this do you think that it might be the actual wire itself that's the culprit??

Now that I think about it guys....try this..it worked for me. I took a negative lead from a jumper cable and attached it to my negative terminal. I then attached the other end to my parachute post which is welded obviously to the frame. She fired right up!! So based on this and the fact that the wire's short...maybe I've found the problem? Whatcha think?

thx-

Originally posted by richd
Stang_ROTY:

You shouldn't be getting any negative voltages. Are you holding the negative DMM wire on the battery? If not, then just reverse the leads.

At any rate, anything near 2 volts is way too much voltage between the negative post and ANY ground point. What guage wire are you using for your grounds? I suspect either the wire isn't beefy enough or your grounding points aren't making good contact. Seems the latter might be more likely based on what you saw after sanding. Check your crimps also.

Good luck,

Rich D.