Car won't start. Long.

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 08:05 AM

I really need help.

I was driving my stang yesterday on the highway when suddenly it hesitated, backfired, then shut down. I was able to restart the engine briefly, but the idle was poor and it shut down again. Upon inspection, I noticed that I was getting fuel pressure, but no SPARK. My dad determined this by check my sparkplug wires while I cranked the engine. My fuel pressure gauge reads 32psi when I turn the key on, and I can hear the pump priming.

We went to the auto parts store and bought a new coil and TFI module, (the module that goes on the distributor). At this point the car had sat for 30 minutes. When I tried to start the engine, it fired right up, and idled fine, so I took off with it, only to make it 1 block before it hesitated, backfired, and shut down again.

No the engine won't fire-up at all, it cranks fine, but won't fire. I did manage to start the engine a few times but it would only run for a short period before it would start the idle horribly the shut down. I tried everything I possibly could, even swapped out the distributor, and nothing. I ended up sitting on the side of the road for 5 hours, before I finally had the car towed home.

Any suggestions. I'm really considering selling this car.

83GTMUSTANG · 07-11-2005, 10:04 AM

Which Ignition System Do You Have If Its After Market Check Your Wiring Did You Get The Last Coil Checked At The Auto Parts...........

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 10:11 AM

I have the Crane Fireball ignition box, the box seems to be working because the light comes on when I turn the key. It engine shows the same simptoms with the new coil and old coil. (no fire) The ignition box was installed when I purchased the car. I'm thinking of remove the box to see if the standard ignition system is working, but I don't know how this box was wire up.

83GTMUSTANG · 07-11-2005, 10:18 AM

I Had A Crane Hi-6s Gave Me Hell It Would Drive A Block Or Two Then Cut Off But The Light Would Still Be On,,,,,,,,,,so I Swiched To Msd 6al Box 1 Year Not 1 Problem Sofar.........check The Wires Or Go Back To Your Factory Stuff...........good Luck

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 10:25 AM

I will definitely look into this.

Ian Gorman · 07-11-2005, 12:00 PM

Do you know if the fuel pressure is staying up once the car is running? You may have enough pressure for idle but once you put a load on the system the pressure could be dropping, causing the stalls. Have you checked to see if the fuel pump relay is getting hot? It shouldn't. I've have had similar symptoms but have been told that my fule pump has developed an internal ground and is about to be replaced. Have the relay checked out, the extra draw from a failing pump burns them up pretty quickly. I replaced two within 3,000 miles before I realized what was going on.

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 01:31 PM

I haven't had a chance to check my feul pressure gauge while the engine was running. But when I initially turn the key, I can hear the buzzing from the pump and the fuel pressure rises to around 32psi.

Where is the feul pump relay located?

I have an 87 GT Hatchback.

Ian Gorman · 07-11-2005, 01:51 PM

I think on an 87 it is under the driver's seat. It is mounted to the metal boltdown bracket right under the middle of the seat. Just take out the bolt and gently pull the whole assembly forward. When I remounted mine I did not tighten everything up so that when it went out again I could replace thye relay without using any tools.

Did you use a timing light when you were checking for spark? You seem pretty convinced that spark was the problem and I must admit that originally a bad coil had crossed my mind but the electricals checked out OK.

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 03:09 PM

I couldn't use a timing light because I didn't have one available since I was stranded on the side of the beltway. Also I can even get the engine started long engine to use the timing light.

I'll check the relay though.

Thanks

Hozer 88GTConv · 07-11-2005, 03:34 PM

I would definitely start at that box, where's it located? Under the hood? Sounds possibly like an electrical heat sink issue, that is as a component heats up it becomes less effective at producing/managing spark. That's why the tfi module is in the stupidest place ever.
Take the box out of the loop...
good luck...

NitroNixon · 07-11-2005, 03:41 PM

The box is under the hood, directly under my cold air intake filter. I will take it out of the loop.

Thanks

NitroNixon · 07-12-2005, 08:08 PM

Update - I had the codes pulled and here's what I found

67 - Neutral Drive SW CKT Open or A/C on
81 - Thermactor Divert or Bypass CKT
82 - Thermactor Divert or Bypass CKT
95 - Code Definition not available
***Continous Memory Codes - Fix Last***

Anyone knows what they mean?

Should I be looking at my neutral switch? I'm going to try and remove my Crane Box to see if the engine will start with the stock ignition.

NitroNixon · 07-15-2005, 02:01 PM

Day 5 and still not start.

Hozer 88GTConv · 07-15-2005, 02:14 PM

So it still won't start at all? Not even idle for 3-5 secs?

Is your EGR valve still installed? Check that damn plunger if it is...also, check the ten-pin connectors next to the egr (corrosion, integrity, etc)..

tell us what your egr setup is like now? did you delete the crossover on the back of the heads but leave the egr on? If you took the egr off, what did you do with the plunger sensor?

Take a picture and post it of your egr if you can and it is still installed...

NitroNixon · 07-15-2005, 02:42 PM

I still have the cross over pipes on the back of the heads, still using the complete EGR system. The only think I have unhook is the smog pump. I capped it off since I'm running an off-road h-pipe.

Hozer 88GTConv · 07-15-2005, 03:42 PM

what does the egr look like, that is, when you take the sensor off (the giant vacuum looking thing) is it all black, sooty, or gummed up?
try bypassing it by taking the sensor off and depressing the long plunger and zip-tying it closed.
keep us posted...
also, have you swapped the intake bypass valve (that shiny cylinder on the front of your throttle body)?

Hozer 88GTConv · 07-15-2005, 07:48 PM

check that tfi module again too...

NitroNixon · 07-16-2005, 06:55 PM

Well,

I traced the wires from my Crane Ignition box. Can someone tell me where to find instructions on how to un-hook this box. I see how to un-hook the power and ground wires from the box, but there are 2 blue wires that run from the crane box directly to the coil. Were should I look to find the original wires that ran to the coil before the crane box was installed.

Also there are 2 small white wires that run from the crane box to the factory harness, and then right into the firewall.

07-11-2005, 08:05 AM	#1
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Car won't start. Long. I really need help. I was driving my stang yesterday on the highway when suddenly it hesitated, backfired, then shut down. I was able to restart the engine briefly, but the idle was poor and it shut down again. Upon inspection, I noticed that I was getting fuel pressure, but no SPARK. My dad determined this by check my sparkplug wires while I cranked the engine. My fuel pressure gauge reads 32psi when I turn the key on, and I can hear the pump priming. We went to the auto parts store and bought a new coil and TFI module, (the module that goes on the distributor). At this point the car had sat for 30 minutes. When I tried to start the engine, it fired right up, and idled fine, so I took off with it, only to make it 1 block before it hesitated, backfired, and shut down again. No the engine won't fire-up at all, it cranks fine, but won't fire. I did manage to start the engine a few times but it would only run for a short period before it would start the idle horribly the shut down. I tried everything I possibly could, even swapped out the distributor, and nothing. I ended up sitting on the side of the road for 5 hours, before I finally had the car towed home. Any suggestions. I'm really considering selling this car. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-11-2005, 10:04 AM	#2
83GTMUSTANG N-V-ME Join Date: May 2005 Location: SOUTHFIELD,MICHIGAN Posts: 155	Re: Car won't start. Long. Which Ignition System Do You Have If Its After Market Check Your Wiring Did You Get The Last Coil Checked At The Auto Parts........... __________________ 88' LX MUSTANG: LINCOLN ROTORS , AIR SUSPENSION FRONT AND REAR, SUBFRAMES, ROLL CAGE, 92' BLOCK, MSD 6AL, ACCEL 8.8 WIRES, ACCEL COIL, EDELBROCK F4B INTAKE (PORTED),2 IN. 4 HOLE SPACERS, HOLLEY 600 CARB.,HOLLEY BLUE FUEL PUMP AN REGULATOR, E 303 (.498 IN. 220 DUR.) CAM, (.535 IN. OF LIFT W/ 1.72 SCORPIN ROLLER ROCKERS), PORTED E7'S, FLOWTECH 1 5/8 LONG TUBE HEADERS, 2 1/2 IN. H PIPE, 2 CHAMBER FLOWMASTERS WITH 3 IN.DUMPS, T-5, 3.73 GEARS, 5 LUG AEROSTAR AXELS, 245-45-17 96' COBRA WHEELS

07-11-2005, 10:11 AM	#3
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. I have the Crane Fireball ignition box, the box seems to be working because the light comes on when I turn the key. It engine shows the same simptoms with the new coil and old coil. (no fire) The ignition box was installed when I purchased the car. I'm thinking of remove the box to see if the standard ignition system is working, but I don't know how this box was wire up. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-11-2005, 10:18 AM	#4
83GTMUSTANG N-V-ME Join Date: May 2005 Location: SOUTHFIELD,MICHIGAN Posts: 155	Re: Car won't start. Long. I Had A Crane Hi-6s Gave Me Hell It Would Drive A Block Or Two Then Cut Off But The Light Would Still Be On,,,,,,,,,,so I Swiched To Msd 6al Box 1 Year Not 1 Problem Sofar.........check The Wires Or Go Back To Your Factory Stuff...........good Luck __________________ 88' LX MUSTANG: LINCOLN ROTORS , AIR SUSPENSION FRONT AND REAR, SUBFRAMES, ROLL CAGE, 92' BLOCK, MSD 6AL, ACCEL 8.8 WIRES, ACCEL COIL, EDELBROCK F4B INTAKE (PORTED),2 IN. 4 HOLE SPACERS, HOLLEY 600 CARB.,HOLLEY BLUE FUEL PUMP AN REGULATOR, E 303 (.498 IN. 220 DUR.) CAM, (.535 IN. OF LIFT W/ 1.72 SCORPIN ROLLER ROCKERS), PORTED E7'S, FLOWTECH 1 5/8 LONG TUBE HEADERS, 2 1/2 IN. H PIPE, 2 CHAMBER FLOWMASTERS WITH 3 IN.DUMPS, T-5, 3.73 GEARS, 5 LUG AEROSTAR AXELS, 245-45-17 96' COBRA WHEELS

07-11-2005, 10:25 AM	#5
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. I will definitely look into this. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-11-2005, 12:00 PM	#6
Ian Gorman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 5	Re: Car won't start. Long. Do you know if the fuel pressure is staying up once the car is running? You may have enough pressure for idle but once you put a load on the system the pressure could be dropping, causing the stalls. Have you checked to see if the fuel pump relay is getting hot? It shouldn't. I've have had similar symptoms but have been told that my fule pump has developed an internal ground and is about to be replaced. Have the relay checked out, the extra draw from a failing pump burns them up pretty quickly. I replaced two within 3,000 miles before I realized what was going on.

07-11-2005, 01:31 PM	#7
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. I haven't had a chance to check my feul pressure gauge while the engine was running. But when I initially turn the key, I can hear the buzzing from the pump and the fuel pressure rises to around 32psi. Where is the feul pump relay located? I have an 87 GT Hatchback. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-11-2005, 01:51 PM	#8
Ian Gorman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 5	Re: Car won't start. Long. I think on an 87 it is under the driver's seat. It is mounted to the metal boltdown bracket right under the middle of the seat. Just take out the bolt and gently pull the whole assembly forward. When I remounted mine I did not tighten everything up so that when it went out again I could replace thye relay without using any tools. Did you use a timing light when you were checking for spark? You seem pretty convinced that spark was the problem and I must admit that originally a bad coil had crossed my mind but the electricals checked out OK.

07-11-2005, 03:09 PM	#9
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. I couldn't use a timing light because I didn't have one available since I was stranded on the side of the beltway. Also I can even get the engine started long engine to use the timing light. I'll check the relay though. Thanks __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-11-2005, 03:34 PM	#10
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Car won't start. Long. I would definitely start at that box, where's it located? Under the hood? Sounds possibly like an electrical heat sink issue, that is as a component heats up it becomes less effective at producing/managing spark. That's why the tfi module is in the stupidest place ever. Take the box out of the loop... good luck... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

07-11-2005, 03:41 PM	#11
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. The box is under the hood, directly under my cold air intake filter. I will take it out of the loop. Thanks __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-12-2005, 08:08 PM	#12
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. Update - I had the codes pulled and here's what I found 67 - Neutral Drive SW CKT Open or A/C on 81 - Thermactor Divert or Bypass CKT 82 - Thermactor Divert or Bypass CKT 95 - Code Definition not available *Continous Memory Codes - Fix Last* Anyone knows what they mean? Should I be looking at my neutral switch? I'm going to try and remove my Crane Box to see if the engine will start with the stock ignition. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-15-2005, 02:01 PM	#13
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. Day 5 and still not start. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-15-2005, 02:14 PM	#14
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Car won't start. Long. So it still won't start at all? Not even idle for 3-5 secs? Is your EGR valve still installed? Check that damn plunger if it is...also, check the ten-pin connectors next to the egr (corrosion, integrity, etc).. tell us what your egr setup is like now? did you delete the crossover on the back of the heads but leave the egr on? If you took the egr off, what did you do with the plunger sensor? Take a picture and post it of your egr if you can and it is still installed... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

07-15-2005, 02:42 PM	#15
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. I still have the cross over pipes on the back of the heads, still using the complete EGR system. The only think I have unhook is the smog pump. I capped it off since I'm running an off-road h-pipe. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

07-15-2005, 03:42 PM	#16
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Car won't start. Long. what does the egr look like, that is, when you take the sensor off (the giant vacuum looking thing) is it all black, sooty, or gummed up? try bypassing it by taking the sensor off and depressing the long plunger and zip-tying it closed. keep us posted... also, have you swapped the intake bypass valve (that shiny cylinder on the front of your throttle body)? __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy Last edited by Hozer 88GTConv; 07-15-2005 at 04:26 PM..

07-15-2005, 07:48 PM	#17
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Re: Car won't start. Long. check that tfi module again too... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

07-16-2005, 06:55 PM	#18
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Re: Car won't start. Long. Well, I traced the wires from my Crane Ignition box. Can someone tell me where to find instructions on how to un-hook this box. I see how to un-hook the power and ground wires from the box, but there are 2 blue wires that run from the crane box directly to the coil. Were should I look to find the original wires that ran to the coil before the crane box was installed. Also there are 2 small white wires that run from the crane box to the factory harness, and then right into the firewall. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

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