Long Tubes vs. Shorties

rtz · 02-27-2001, 02:59 AM

Who here has full length headers and you installed them youself into a 79 - 93 5.0?

How are they in the long run as far as ease of install and changing the spark plugs while those headers are installed vs's having shorties?

02-27-2001, 04:02 AM

I've got the Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers on my blown 87GT.I'm very happy with them.Shorties in my opinion are a waste of money.Long tubes produce more power and torque.

Changing spark plugs is easy with the long tubes.I've changed mine in about a 30-40 minutes

I had to unbolt the motor mounts,then jack the motor up so I could slide the headers on up through to the heads.After they were fitted,I tightened them up to the Mac H-pipe and loved them ever since..

Go for it!

------------------
Paxton Blown 87GT

2FastLX · 02-27-2001, 04:24 AM

Get long tubes. You will not regret it.

I've heard changing plugs with some of the shorties (maybe equal length??) headers is a pain in the @$$
With my MAC long tubes they're just as easy to change as they were with the stock headers.

And don't listen too much to these guys telling you you will lose all kinds of low end torque with long tubes. My car hauls now since the install (which wasn't all that bad) and it's all stock. I did do a full exhaust at the same time though.

Don't waste your time on the shorties. Do it once and do it right. L/T's all the way.

Phantom5oh · 02-27-2001, 10:42 AM

Get the long Tubes! Just be carefull cause they don't all clear aftermarket high volume pans, and some starters. It is well worth it though, you'll never regret them, but you will regret the shorties!

Phantom

------------------
1983 GLX Convertible 5-Speed, knife-edged crank, internally balanced, TRW 11:1, custom cam, ported Windsor Jrs, Manley Valves, CCs roller lifters, dual springs, ARP stud kit, 600cfm Edelbrock Torker 2, Mallory Ignition, Canton 7qt traps windage tray baffles, Hooker Super Comp Headers 1 5/8 primaries 3" collectors, Flowmasters, K&N, ASP puleys, Maximum Motorsports C/Cs strut tower K member brace, through floor subframes, Grant wheel, billet pedals, 93 seats, Keystone rims

84_GT350 · 02-27-2001, 11:03 AM

I've had a little experience installing both. Some long tubes can be slid up (very carefully) from under the car. Most will require unbolting some parts though. Long tubes are great if you've got the engine to support them. I wouldn't put them on a stock 5.0. Maybe a mildly modified one. Anything more than that and you'll see a benefit from them. Shorty headers are easy to change plugs on if you have the unequals like I do. Unequal length shorties make a tad more power but plug changes suck @ss.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

LX XLR8R · 02-27-2001, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mustanguy:
I've got the Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers on my blown 87GT.I'm very happy with them.Shorties in my opinion are a waste of money.Long tubes produce more power and torque.

Changing spark plugs is easy with the long tubes.I've changed mine in about a 30-40 minutes

I had to unbolt the motor mounts,then jack the motor up so I could slide the headers on up through to the heads.After they were fitted,I tightened them up to the Mac H-pipe and loved them ever since..

Go for it!

ditto..couldnt said it better myself..for the lil extra $$ and time to put in long tubes its worth it

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

Capri306 · 02-27-2001, 12:40 PM

I LOVE my BBK full length chromies!

Here's my story: I wanted to save a couple of bucks, so I bought some FlowTech (read: BLOWTECH) full lengths. Little did I know how much of a pain in the arse they'd be. I had to pull the steering shaft out to fit it between a couple of the tubes (!) and getting them to not short out my starter required a little bit of hammering. I finally got sick of them, rusting after a week or two and not exactly sealing at the head OR the collector. I broke down / gave in and bought the BBK full length chromies ($239???). I almost cried after installing them, simply because of how DEAD SIMPLE they were compared to the BLOWtechs. They don't come nearly as close to anything like BLOWtechs, and the matching shortie H-pipe bolted on perfectly. They're still nice & shiny, too! Oh, the primaries are welded inside and out to a REAL thick plate, plus you can actually tighten the bolts so they don't leak. Hope this helps!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

shovelnose · 02-27-2001, 04:41 PM

Another vote for L-T's. Mine were easy to install.Undo motor mounts and fan-shroud(If applicable) and jack it up, slide them in. Plugs are easy. I have to loosen pas. header to get starter out. I just have cheapo headman 1 5/8". The 1 3/4 would be better if you are moderatly modified.

My buddy had a PITA with his(Flow tech I think), plus they were 3 piece.

The worst thing on a Ford is the exhaust side so anything you can do to improve that is the ticket.

------------------
82 Mercury Capri 302.
Comp. Cams
Tremec 3550
3.73's
12.8@106 N/AKevin's Capri

Bob · 02-27-2001, 07:52 PM

I just started my car up yesterday after putting the BBK longtubes on! Haven't put the rest of the exhaust on yet, but had to hear it with open headers.

I didn't have any problem putting them on because I did the clutch at the same time, so the trans, bell housing and flywheel were off. Just put 'em up from under the car. Now that everything is bolted back up, I'm pretty impressed with BBK's. There isn't any fit problems at all, they clear everything. Pretty close to the steering shaft and starter, but there IS clearance. Do any of you guys have trouble with starters or clutch cables getting too hot? cause it's pretty close.

------------------
1985 Mustang GT

'85 GT 13.20 @ 105.8 / '72 Mach1
Long list...check website!!
My Website

fastang · 02-27-2001, 08:36 PM

I will be installing the exact same thing on my 95 this saturday. Someone on here had to coat their clutch cable in heatwrap because their longtubes burnt two previous ones. I have a larger bellhousing than a T5 so I might have the same problem

I hope not.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

rtz · 02-28-2001, 12:41 AM

How did you install these from under the car? Did you use a lift, or just jack it up high enough?

Can they not be installed from above?

fastang · 02-28-2001, 01:12 AM

One side can be installed from the top, but the instructions say that the other side must be done from underneath. I believe its because of the starter. My god those things are beautiful..arent they?

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

rtz · 02-28-2001, 03:34 AM

Will I be able to install that one side by raising the car with a floor jack?

tomazzzo · 02-28-2001, 03:43 PM

I put bbk long tubes in my 93 GT 3 weeks ago.

Had to jack up the pass side, and remove the starter to get the hedder to go in from the bottom. If you have to deal with 02 sensors, go to www.downsford.com, and order a set of o2 extentions for 40.00. You will save time by not having to reroute the o2 wiring, risking burning the factory wiring, (I never could figure out how to get the length). You will have to cut one of the key tabs on the 02 sensor, and on one end of the extension cable to fit.

Be prepared to do some bending to get the BBK Hpipe to fit the headders. I have installed 2 sets of bbk longtubes and hpipes, had to use a 3 ton floor jack to spread the out the input tubes.
check every weld, especially at the collectors. My set of BBK hedders had factory defective welds.

Once I got the system installed and all the bugs out, I was able to get 20 rearwheel horses according to a gtech pro. I had a bad 02 sensor at the time and my k&n needed to be oiled, so I suspect once I fixed these problems, I could get another 10 0ut of the set up.
------------------
Thomas Monahan
Shreveport, La.

93Reef Blue GT
BBK Ceramic Long Tubes
Flowmaster 2ch system
Pro 5.0 Shifter

[This message has been edited by tomazzzo (edited 02-28-2001).]

NO SLO PK · 02-28-2001, 04:38 PM

Another vote for the longtubes! With the MACs, I had to buy a special steering coupler to clear one of the tubes.

------------------
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

DemonGT · 02-28-2001, 05:41 PM

how do you wrap your steering rack and starting???

------------------
1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers and Cat-back

Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,FMS 9mm wires

rtz · 02-28-2001, 11:28 PM

Can someone post a picture from under the car showing how close the header is to the starter?

And if you have a digital camera, and this is not too much trouble, one from under the car on the drivers side showing the steering shaft and maybe one from each side from the top down view?

Thanks.

I was just looking into shorties for the ease of install. I might get long tubes if they aren't too much more trouble.

2FastLX · 03-01-2001, 01:36 AM

I would go with the BBK's if I had to do it over again. I've heard they are a lot easier to install than the MAC L/T's, and the finish holds up better. I have some pics somewhere and will try to get them scanned for you if I can find them.

I need to get a new steering shaft because mine hits on the header at the coupler. I think once I get my new motor mounts in it will alieviate that though.

That's another thing... Get a set of motor mounts for a convert and replace those while you are doing the header install. They are a lot stronger and since you'll be down there it's a good time to do it.

rtz · 03-01-2001, 01:42 AM

What about running solid motor mounts on a daily driver?

fastang · 03-01-2001, 10:21 AM

Solids will knock the fillings out of your teeth. Wholy $hit Tomazzo! 20 RWHP just out of your longtubes? Thats great most people are lucky to get 10 out of shorties. Glad I bought the longtubes.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors

02-27-2001, 02:59 AM	#1
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	Long Tubes vs. Shorties Who here has full length headers and you installed them youself into a 79 - 93 5.0? How are they in the long run as far as ease of install and changing the spark plugs while those headers are installed vs's having shorties?

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02-27-2001, 04:02 AM	#2
Mustanguy Guest Posts: n/a	I've got the Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers on my blown 87GT.I'm very happy with them.Shorties in my opinion are a waste of money.Long tubes produce more power and torque. Changing spark plugs is easy with the long tubes.I've changed mine in about a 30-40 minutes I had to unbolt the motor mounts,then jack the motor up so I could slide the headers on up through to the heads.After they were fitted,I tightened them up to the Mac H-pipe and loved them ever since.. Go for it! ------------------ Paxton Blown 87GT

02-27-2001, 04:24 AM	#3
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	Get long tubes. You will not regret it. I've heard changing plugs with some of the shorties (maybe equal length??) headers is a pain in the @$$ With my MAC long tubes they're just as easy to change as they were with the stock headers. And don't listen too much to these guys telling you you will lose all kinds of low end torque with long tubes. My car hauls now since the install (which wasn't all that bad) and it's all stock. I did do a full exhaust at the same time though. Don't waste your time on the shorties. Do it once and do it right. L/T's all the way.

02-27-2001, 10:42 AM	#4
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Get the long Tubes! Just be carefull cause they don't all clear aftermarket high volume pans, and some starters. It is well worth it though, you'll never regret them, but you will regret the shorties! Phantom ------------------ 1983 GLX Convertible 5-Speed, knife-edged crank, internally balanced, TRW 11:1, custom cam, ported Windsor Jrs, Manley Valves, CCs roller lifters, dual springs, ARP stud kit, 600cfm Edelbrock Torker 2, Mallory Ignition, Canton 7qt traps windage tray baffles, Hooker Super Comp Headers 1 5/8 primaries 3" collectors, Flowmasters, K&N, ASP puleys, Maximum Motorsports C/Cs strut tower K member brace, through floor subframes, Grant wheel, billet pedals, 93 seats, Keystone rims

02-27-2001, 11:03 AM	#5
84_GT350 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA Posts: 1,631	I've had a little experience installing both. Some long tubes can be slid up (very carefully) from under the car. Most will require unbolting some parts though. Long tubes are great if you've got the engine to support them. I wouldn't put them on a stock 5.0. Maybe a mildly modified one. Anything more than that and you'll see a benefit from them. Shorty headers are easy to change plugs on if you have the unequals like I do. Unequal length shorties make a tad more power but plug changes suck @ss. ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

02-27-2001, 12:40 PM	#7
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	I LOVE my BBK full length chromies! Here's my story: I wanted to save a couple of bucks, so I bought some FlowTech (read: BLOWTECH) full lengths. Little did I know how much of a pain in the arse they'd be. I had to pull the steering shaft out to fit it between a couple of the tubes (!) and getting them to not short out my starter required a little bit of hammering. I finally got sick of them, rusting after a week or two and not exactly sealing at the head OR the collector. I broke down / gave in and bought the BBK full length chromies ($239???). I almost cried after installing them, simply because of how DEAD SIMPLE they were compared to the BLOWtechs. They don't come nearly as close to anything like BLOWtechs, and the matching shortie H-pipe bolted on perfectly. They're still nice & shiny, too! Oh, the primaries are welded inside and out to a REAL thick plate, plus you can actually tighten the bolts so they don't leak. Hope this helps! ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

02-27-2001, 04:41 PM	#8
shovelnose Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 234	Another vote for L-T's. Mine were easy to install.Undo motor mounts and fan-shroud(If applicable) and jack it up, slide them in. Plugs are easy. I have to loosen pas. header to get starter out. I just have cheapo headman 1 5/8". The 1 3/4 would be better if you are moderatly modified. My buddy had a PITA with his(Flow tech I think), plus they were 3 piece. The worst thing on a Ford is the exhaust side so anything you can do to improve that is the ticket. ------------------ 82 Mercury Capri 302. Comp. Cams Tremec 3550 3.73's 12.8@106 N/AKevin's Capri

02-27-2001, 07:52 PM	#9
Bob "Old School Gearhead" Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Peru, Illinois Posts: 617	I just started my car up yesterday after putting the BBK longtubes on! Haven't put the rest of the exhaust on yet, but had to hear it with open headers. I didn't have any problem putting them on because I did the clutch at the same time, so the trans, bell housing and flywheel were off. Just put 'em up from under the car. Now that everything is bolted back up, I'm pretty impressed with BBK's. There isn't any fit problems at all, they clear everything. Pretty close to the steering shaft and starter, but there IS clearance. Do any of you guys have trouble with starters or clutch cables getting too hot? cause it's pretty close. ------------------ 1985 Mustang GT '85 GT 13.20 @ 105.8 / '72 Mach1 Long list...check website!! My Website

02-27-2001, 08:36 PM	#10
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	I will be installing the exact same thing on my 95 this saturday. Someone on here had to coat their clutch cable in heatwrap because their longtubes burnt two previous ones. I have a larger bellhousing than a T5 so I might have the same problem I hope not. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-28-2001, 12:41 AM	#11
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	How did you install these from under the car? Did you use a lift, or just jack it up high enough? Can they not be installed from above?

02-28-2001, 01:12 AM	#12
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	One side can be installed from the top, but the instructions say that the other side must be done from underneath. I believe its because of the starter. My god those things are beautiful..arent they? ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-28-2001, 03:34 AM	#13
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	Will I be able to install that one side by raising the car with a floor jack?

02-28-2001, 03:43 PM	#14
tomazzzo Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: shreveport, La. USA Posts: 27	I put bbk long tubes in my 93 GT 3 weeks ago. Had to jack up the pass side, and remove the starter to get the hedder to go in from the bottom. If you have to deal with 02 sensors, go to www.downsford.com, and order a set of o2 extentions for 40.00. You will save time by not having to reroute the o2 wiring, risking burning the factory wiring, (I never could figure out how to get the length). You will have to cut one of the key tabs on the 02 sensor, and on one end of the extension cable to fit. Be prepared to do some bending to get the BBK Hpipe to fit the headders. I have installed 2 sets of bbk longtubes and hpipes, had to use a 3 ton floor jack to spread the out the input tubes. check every weld, especially at the collectors. My set of BBK hedders had factory defective welds. Once I got the system installed and all the bugs out, I was able to get 20 rearwheel horses according to a gtech pro. I had a bad 02 sensor at the time and my k&n needed to be oiled, so I suspect once I fixed these problems, I could get another 10 0ut of the set up. ------------------ Thomas Monahan Shreveport, La. 93Reef Blue GT BBK Ceramic Long Tubes Flowmaster 2ch system Pro 5.0 Shifter [This message has been edited by tomazzzo (edited 02-28-2001).]

02-28-2001, 04:38 PM	#15
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Another vote for the longtubes! With the MACs, I had to buy a special steering coupler to clear one of the tubes. ------------------ '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

02-28-2001, 05:41 PM	#16
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	how do you wrap your steering rack and starting??? ------------------ 1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers and Cat-back Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,FMS 9mm wires

02-28-2001, 11:28 PM	#17
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	Can someone post a picture from under the car showing how close the header is to the starter? And if you have a digital camera, and this is not too much trouble, one from under the car on the drivers side showing the steering shaft and maybe one from each side from the top down view? Thanks. I was just looking into shorties for the ease of install. I might get long tubes if they aren't too much more trouble.

03-01-2001, 01:36 AM	#18
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	I would go with the BBK's if I had to do it over again. I've heard they are a lot easier to install than the MAC L/T's, and the finish holds up better. I have some pics somewhere and will try to get them scanned for you if I can find them. I need to get a new steering shaft because mine hits on the header at the coupler. I think once I get my new motor mounts in it will alieviate that though. That's another thing... Get a set of motor mounts for a convert and replace those while you are doing the header install. They are a lot stronger and since you'll be down there it's a good time to do it.

03-01-2001, 01:42 AM	#19
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	What about running solid motor mounts on a daily driver?

03-01-2001, 10:21 AM	#20
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	Solids will knock the fillings out of your teeth. Wholy $hit Tomazzo! 20 RWHP just out of your longtubes? Thats great most people are lucky to get 10 out of shorties. Glad I bought the longtubes. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors