Goodbye Speed Density, Hello Mass Air?

Sac68 · 01-14-2001, 07:04 PM

With several signifigant mods upcoming, such as heads, cam, intake, TB, and more, should I ditch my 87's Speed Density airflow system for the supposedly more effecient and mod-friendly Mass Air system?

As alway, your feedback is very welcome and greatly appreciated.

------------------
98 Mustang coupe 3.8L V6
87 Mustang GT hatchback 5.0L V8
87 Bronco XLT 4bbl 351W

My mom drives a 99 Mustang GT convertable.

88COBRA · 01-14-2001, 07:10 PM

YES!

Ian

------------------
Ian Sim
webmaster@stangpower.com
STORED: 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded
WANT XENON HEADLIGHTS AND WHITE FACE GAUGES? Visit my site:
http://www.stangpower.com

Brian88 · 01-14-2001, 07:22 PM

what cam. if you are not going more than an e cam, then leave speed density. put money elsewhere. just my opinion.

Sac68 · 01-14-2001, 07:25 PM

Thanks for the replies. Heard the same thing from a couple other people, you guys are pretty knowledgable on here so I decided to consult you too.

See ya later Speed Density. I guess I'll add a MAF conversion kit to my list. Thanks again.

88workcar · 01-14-2001, 09:29 PM

ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!! With the money you are going to waist on that you could put a posi, and gears. LONG LIVE SPEED DENSITY..I am fixing to show all of you low 11s on SPEED DENSITY

------------------
Jason B Johnson
88LX,speed density,edel heads,4.30s,B-303,cobra,tremac,
12.38 @ 111.28 1.80 60ft 28X10 street tires
12.17 @ 112 26 X 10 slicks
http://www.mustangworks.com/mustangs...g347-slot3.jpg

Skyman · 01-15-2001, 04:40 AM

Listen to Jason, obviously he knows what hes doing with his setup, look how fast its going. I'm jelous as hell of it. I wish it was mine.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft.

On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes.

Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs!
13.2@106mph

Brian88 · 01-15-2001, 06:39 AM

you can listen to me too. i am running an f cam. that is the biggest cam you can run without fly cutting. there is nothing wrong with speed density.

88COBRA · 01-15-2001, 02:08 PM

If he gets heads/cam/intake it will be very hard to get the idle correct.

I would just get a used kit, or buy pieces used and put a conversion together.

Ian

------------------
Ian Sim
webmaster@stangpower.com
STORED: 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded
WANT XENON HEADLIGHTS AND WHITE FACE GAUGES? Visit my site:
http://www.stangpower.com

Brian88 · 01-15-2001, 07:24 PM

no it won't. how do you know, do you have any mods like 88workcar and myself.

01-16-2001, 09:54 PM

88 workcar and Brian88. While you're here I was wondering if any of the Turbo 4 ford cars were speed density? And if so would I be able to use a map sensor off these cars on my speed density 5.0 that will be getting 2 turbos in the near future. Speed density cant be all wrong seeing as how Accells DFI is speed density and there are guys running power adders with that setup thanks

88workcar · 01-16-2001, 11:06 PM

Either Paxton or Vortec just released a blower for SPEED DENSITY cars. Jimmy LaRocca still uses it. I have never had an idle problem. B-303, E-303, Wolverine 1087. These old myths are spread by people who have never had S/D or didn't try to do any mods with it. I am going to set up a fuel injected 393 stroker with

SPEED you guessed it DENSITY

------------------
Jason B Johnson
88LX,speed density,edel heads,4.30s,B-303,cobra,tremac,
12.38 @ 111.28 1.80 60ft 28X10 street tires
12.17 @ 112 26 X 10 slicks
http://www.mustangworks.com/mustangs...g347-slot3.jpg

01-17-2001, 04:48 AM

Yup,Jason(88Workcar) is right.I know because when I went to buy my paxton blower kit,there was a speed density kit AND a mass-air kit also.I'm not sure what Vortech offers.

I do know a guy who(used to be a member on this very site even) had a Paxton blower on a 87GT who ran a best ET of 12.166 @ 112mph with a speed density kit installed on his car.

There is nothing wrong with speed density,you just have to understand it and know how to tune it correctly.

Kinda like Paxton ball-drive blowers,I get all kinds of people saying they never hold up,you can't make them run good ET's,etc,etc,whatever.Well guess what,there will always be us underdogs that prove otherwise

------------------
Paxton Blown 87GT

redrider · 01-17-2001, 08:35 PM

I 4 1 love mass air. I converted my 88 GT to mass air from a 90 LX and added a 73 C&L with all kinds of intake exhaust mods. I have the timing set at 14 degrees and everything is in sync. Before with the lousy speed density my car would ping under load at 10 degrees advance.

------------------
88 GT mass air conversion from 90lx, Cobra Intake(ported/polished lower),Edlebrock Heads(ported/polished),24# injectors 70 mm BBK TB, 73mm C&L, 347 SB, Wolverine custom cam, 150 shot Nitrous, BBK 1 3/4 long tubes, BBK off road H pipe, Dynomax cat back, alum driveshaft, Konis,Southside Bars w chromemoly torque boxes, 4.10 with Auburn diff, SVO springs, subs, cross drilled rotors,MSD A6 w ign retard, black magic fan etc.

gray87GT · 01-17-2001, 09:19 PM

I have a question for you guys. could I just get the 70mm cobra kit from ford, and use the module and the injectors.....and not use the mass air meter???

slow87GT · 01-22-2001, 12:29 PM

redrider, your cvar prolly pinged cuz you put 24's on there and it couldn't use that much fual(didn't need it)

I've run 12.76@106.7 at 3460lb race weight and I FIRMLY beleive this car will go 12.4 w/bigger fuel pump, I have 110lph now and 320hp is the limit, well to 12.7@106@3460 it requires 113lph and 323 hp. I beleive I'd have 350-360hp if I could feed the fuel demand

Next year it WILL run 11.9 SPEED DENSITY and if I make the move to a 351 block I'll stay S/D until mass air is required.

88workcar, I'm gonna email you again, its paris @ somewhere right?

------------------
ram air
70mm tb
ported performer
ported 289heads 1.94,1.6
1 5/8 LT's

Unit 5302 · 01-22-2001, 04:10 PM

Nah, SD will run okay with 24lb injectors on a stock motor. I've seen it, so I should know. It does surge a little though.

I don't know what mods you had on the motor before you switched, but had you just monkeyed with an AFPR you should have been able to tune the system properly.

93CobraR · 01-22-2001, 05:04 PM

I thought that spped density was good untill I switched. Now the car runs perfect. No surging, cold knocking or anything. The exhuast note changed and sounds better now too. I will NEVER look back.

------------------
87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's,GT-40 heads,long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's.
Best time 13.012
Best MPH 104
Best 60' 1.816

Visit my site at:
http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

01-22-2001, 10:39 PM

88workcar, after reading this,Im deciding more and more not to buy a DFI and try to run the 2 turbos w/ SD. My question is mainly the fuel system, will it support 42lb injectors? I plan on a 5.8, something with a cam similar to a Lightning, and what can I use for a MAP sensor to add fuel under boost? Because from what I understand the MAP sensor is a big factor in fuel control. THANAKS

01-14-2001, 07:04 PM	#1
Sac68 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Pgh, PA USA Posts: 281	Goodbye Speed Density, Hello Mass Air? With several signifigant mods upcoming, such as heads, cam, intake, TB, and more, should I ditch my 87's Speed Density airflow system for the supposedly more effecient and mod-friendly Mass Air system? As alway, your feedback is very welcome and greatly appreciated. ------------------ 98 Mustang coupe 3.8L V6 87 Mustang GT hatchback 5.0L V8 87 Bronco XLT 4bbl 351W My mom drives a 99 Mustang GT convertable.

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01-14-2001, 07:10 PM	#2
88COBRA STANGPOWER.COM Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,045	YES! Ian ------------------ Ian Sim webmaster@stangpower.com STORED: 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded WANT XENON HEADLIGHTS AND WHITE FACE GAUGES? Visit my site: http://www.stangpower.com

01-14-2001, 07:22 PM	#3
Brian88 Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 110	what cam. if you are not going more than an e cam, then leave speed density. put money elsewhere. just my opinion.

01-14-2001, 07:25 PM	#4
Sac68 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Pgh, PA USA Posts: 281	Thanks for the replies. Heard the same thing from a couple other people, you guys are pretty knowledgable on here so I decided to consult you too. See ya later Speed Density. I guess I'll add a MAF conversion kit to my list. Thanks again.

01-14-2001, 09:29 PM	#5
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!! With the money you are going to waist on that you could put a posi, and gears. LONG LIVE SPEED DENSITY..I am fixing to show all of you low 11s on SPEED DENSITY ------------------ Jason B Johnson 88LX,speed density,edel heads,4.30s,B-303,cobra,tremac, 12.38 @ 111.28 1.80 60ft 28X10 street tires 12.17 @ 112 26 X 10 slicks http://www.mustangworks.com/mustangs...g347-slot3.jpg

01-15-2001, 04:40 AM	#6
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Listen to Jason, obviously he knows what hes doing with his setup, look how fast its going. I'm jelous as hell of it. I wish it was mine. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft. On its way: Paxton Sn-89 with dyno tuning and long tubes. Just added: B&M Ripper, Weldin Subframes, & Turn downs! 13.2@106mph

01-15-2001, 06:39 AM	#7
Brian88 Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 110	you can listen to me too. i am running an f cam. that is the biggest cam you can run without fly cutting. there is nothing wrong with speed density.

01-15-2001, 02:08 PM	#8
88COBRA STANGPOWER.COM Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,045	If he gets heads/cam/intake it will be very hard to get the idle correct. I would just get a used kit, or buy pieces used and put a conversion together. Ian ------------------ Ian Sim webmaster@stangpower.com STORED: 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded WANT XENON HEADLIGHTS AND WHITE FACE GAUGES? Visit my site: http://www.stangpower.com

01-15-2001, 07:24 PM	#9
Brian88 Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 110	no it won't. how do you know, do you have any mods like 88workcar and myself.

01-16-2001, 09:54 PM	#10
mikos chris Guest Posts: n/a	88 workcar and Brian88. While you're here I was wondering if any of the Turbo 4 ford cars were speed density? And if so would I be able to use a map sensor off these cars on my speed density 5.0 that will be getting 2 turbos in the near future. Speed density cant be all wrong seeing as how Accells DFI is speed density and there are guys running power adders with that setup thanks

01-16-2001, 11:06 PM	#11
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Either Paxton or Vortec just released a blower for SPEED DENSITY cars. Jimmy LaRocca still uses it. I have never had an idle problem. B-303, E-303, Wolverine 1087. These old myths are spread by people who have never had S/D or didn't try to do any mods with it. I am going to set up a fuel injected 393 stroker with SPEED you guessed it DENSITY ------------------ Jason B Johnson 88LX,speed density,edel heads,4.30s,B-303,cobra,tremac, 12.38 @ 111.28 1.80 60ft 28X10 street tires 12.17 @ 112 26 X 10 slicks http://www.mustangworks.com/mustangs...g347-slot3.jpg

01-17-2001, 04:48 AM	#12
Mustanguy Guest Posts: n/a	Yup,Jason(88Workcar) is right.I know because when I went to buy my paxton blower kit,there was a speed density kit AND a mass-air kit also.I'm not sure what Vortech offers. I do know a guy who(used to be a member on this very site even) had a Paxton blower on a 87GT who ran a best ET of 12.166 @ 112mph with a speed density kit installed on his car. There is nothing wrong with speed density,you just have to understand it and know how to tune it correctly. Kinda like Paxton ball-drive blowers,I get all kinds of people saying they never hold up,you can't make them run good ET's,etc,etc,whatever.Well guess what,there will always be us underdogs that prove otherwise ------------------ Paxton Blown 87GT

01-17-2001, 08:35 PM	#13
redrider Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: seffner, Florida, usa Posts: 95	I 4 1 love mass air. I converted my 88 GT to mass air from a 90 LX and added a 73 C&L with all kinds of intake exhaust mods. I have the timing set at 14 degrees and everything is in sync. Before with the lousy speed density my car would ping under load at 10 degrees advance. ------------------ 88 GT mass air conversion from 90lx, Cobra Intake(ported/polished lower),Edlebrock Heads(ported/polished),24# injectors 70 mm BBK TB, 73mm C&L, 347 SB, Wolverine custom cam, 150 shot Nitrous, BBK 1 3/4 long tubes, BBK off road H pipe, Dynomax cat back, alum driveshaft, Konis,Southside Bars w chromemoly torque boxes, 4.10 with Auburn diff, SVO springs, subs, cross drilled rotors,MSD A6 w ign retard, black magic fan etc.

01-17-2001, 09:19 PM	#14
gray87GT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 177	I have a question for you guys. could I just get the 70mm cobra kit from ford, and use the module and the injectors.....and not use the mass air meter???

01-22-2001, 12:29 PM	#15
slow87GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tonawanda,NY Posts: 71	redrider, your cvar prolly pinged cuz you put 24's on there and it couldn't use that much fual(didn't need it) I've run 12.76@106.7 at 3460lb race weight and I FIRMLY beleive this car will go 12.4 w/bigger fuel pump, I have 110lph now and 320hp is the limit, well to 12.7@106@3460 it requires 113lph and 323 hp. I beleive I'd have 350-360hp if I could feed the fuel demand Next year it WILL run 11.9 SPEED DENSITY and if I make the move to a 351 block I'll stay S/D until mass air is required. 88workcar, I'm gonna email you again, its paris @ somewhere right? ------------------ ram air 70mm tb ported performer ported 289heads 1.94,1.6 1 5/8 LT's

01-22-2001, 04:10 PM	#16
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Nah, SD will run okay with 24lb injectors on a stock motor. I've seen it, so I should know. It does surge a little though. I don't know what mods you had on the motor before you switched, but had you just monkeyed with an AFPR you should have been able to tune the system properly.

01-22-2001, 05:04 PM	#17
93CobraR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 1,575	I thought that spped density was good untill I switched. Now the car runs perfect. No surging, cold knocking or anything. The exhuast note changed and sounds better now too. I will NEVER look back. ------------------ 87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's,GT-40 heads,long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's. Best time 13.012 Best MPH 104 Best 60' 1.816 Visit my site at: http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

01-22-2001, 10:39 PM	#18
mikos chris Guest Posts: n/a	88workcar, after reading this,Im deciding more and more not to buy a DFI and try to run the 2 turbos w/ SD. My question is mainly the fuel system, will it support 42lb injectors? I plan on a 5.8, something with a cam similar to a Lightning, and what can I use for a MAP sensor to add fuel under boost? Because from what I understand the MAP sensor is a big factor in fuel control. THANAKS