ATI vs S-Trim

n20neenee · 02-01-2001, 07:40 PM

Now these are teh two big names in superchargers, why is it that even though with the ATI you can run 30 psi intercooled, but the super fast stangs run S-trim? I am not trying to start a war, but Is the ATI not as efficient as teh S-trim?

mazur50 · 02-01-2001, 08:16 PM

Well the reason is that the reason people like ATI is because they are intercooled a intercooled car is easer to tune, and easer on parts because it is easer to tune.The Ati need to make more boost at the blower then the s-trim because of the intercooler.You lose somthing like 3-5 pounds in the intercooler. So the answer to you question is no one is not more efficent then the other .you can get a ATI with out intercooler.You tend to get more from the ATI if it has no intercooler. Sorry it was so long if you have any other question. E-mail me mazur50@aol.com

------------------
1989 lx with a blueprinted AOD and Pi converter headers off road h-pipe, msd6al, electric fan, underdrive pulleys, 3.73 gear, 2 chanber flowmasters, subframe connectors, K&N cone filter, Factory Five control arms, Trans cooler, 150amp alternator, 255 lph fuel pump, 50_175 hp shot
with out the nos got 1.90 60ft on pepboy tires
225 60 r15 i need slicks New B&M Hammer shifter and New ford cable and a set of pony rims

www.geocities.com/mazur50/

smooth · 02-02-2001, 12:48 AM

i think the correct topic would be ATI vs. Vortech

MrGtStang · 02-02-2001, 01:09 AM

I Dont have personal expereince in this field, but ill give my opinon,

Ive heard nothing but great things since ATI Came out. everyguy i talk to with a ATI Loves it would never get rid of it. i know some guys that had vortechs and switched to ATI And would never go back.

But think of this... Vortech sure has been around along time, they got to do something right?

If it was me and im just stating my plans and opinon.

I Like the intercooled ATI.

------------------
Mike A.k.A MrGtStang
1986 GT, 12.75, To Many to List.
1995 GT, 13.97, 3.73's,
flowmasters, ADS Chip, K&N, Removed Intake Silencer, Stock AODE,

DemonGT · 02-02-2001, 01:24 AM

mazer50.....you completely lost me man

------------------
1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers

By the time summer comes ill have full Mac exhaust,new shifter knob and what ever else i can afford

84_GT350 · 02-02-2001, 11:22 AM

A raging debate, to be sure. Personally, I like the ATIs more. It's just easier to make power with them I think. Vortec does offer an aftercooler, but it costs $1200 extra and seems to be a total pain in the @ss to hook up (it's water-to-air so you have to wire up a water pump and whatnot). I've got a few friends who have ATIs cuz their headquarters are about 10 mins away from here and I've helped install a few. Not quite as easy as a Vortec install, but I think you'll be happy you spent the extra time.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

302 LX Eric · 02-02-2001, 12:28 PM

First let me start off by saying that the ATI and Vortech units are very good blowers.

Now, as far as the Vortech's being some of the fastest all the time - well, I beg to differ. In different race classes there are certain blowers that dominate (or in some cases, turbos or nitrous oxide), but all in all the Vortech and ATI Stangs run about the same. One race the ATI wins, the next it's the Vortech.

Just as an example, Bennett Racing (from somewhere in Alabama) has a couple ProCharged Stangs running in the 7's @ ~ 180 mph - pretty damn quick if you ask me. And then there is the Renegade class which was full of ATI blown Stangs that won a ton of races this past season. Additionally, this past season, Les Baer (another top Mustang drag racer) switched to a ProCharger D3M blower.

Overall, success really depends upon so many things - engine combination, cam selection, suspension setup, gearing, transmission, the list goes on and on. The fact is that ATI and Vortech make some extremely powerful superchargers that are capable of producing HP levels into the 1600 HP range - given a properly built engine of course.

So, to wrap up, ATI and Vortech are probably just about equal in efficiency, but remember that it is not always the guy with the most CFM or psi that wins (although it never hurts!

)

E

------------------
1991 5.0 LX Coupe -37,800 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

Pro-Charger D-1SC on the way!!!

yello95gt · 02-02-2001, 03:16 PM

N2O, personally I believe the s-trim is better, because to get 10 pounds of boost on the ATI, you have to run 14lbs of boost thru the intercooler. Thus, this puts extra wear and tear on the motor just to produce the same boost as the the vortech without an intercooler. Also I have a friend who has already been through 2 head units with the ATI, due to bearing failure.
As far as 302 LX Eric said, that is true about the D1 prochargers dominating some classes. But, they are not running intercoolers on these superchargers.

302 LX Eric · 02-02-2001, 04:46 PM

yello95gt - sorry to hear that your friend has had two bearing failures. Does he have the older stlye unit (the P600B)? ATI has upgraded the bearings and load capacities on their new D series and in the P-1 series too.

89 ATI · 02-03-2001, 11:07 AM

It all comes down on the street to how much boost you want to run on 93 octane. I run 14# with a 2 core intercooler on 93 octane. If you want to go to the track and run race gas you can run lots of boost without an intercooler but race gas gets kind of expensive running it on the street.

------------------
89 GT convertible, Kenny Brown level 5, 14# Procharger

buddha · 02-04-2001, 08:03 PM

It depends on who you talk to. Personally, I own an ATI and will never buy another. Due to belt problems, various blower accessories failing, and poor customer service, has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Others have had better luck than myself.

Talk to guys with differnt blowers on their cars to get the best advice. Vortech has much more out there as far as head units, accessories, and fuel systems. Paxtons new Novi line looks pretty killer also. And if you go with an ATI, hopefully their product has improved since I bought my kit from them.

NO SLO PK · 02-04-2001, 09:30 PM

Wait a minute, whose losing 5 psi of boost through an ATI Intercooler?

I lose 2 psi with a mild setup which gives 9 pounds in the manifold. My buddy's ATI was was making 17 psi in the manifold/ 21 at the blower -- and he was running full timing on 92 octane, believe it or don't.

I suppose if you try to pack too much boost through the smaller 2 core then you can lose a lot of boost. I just haven't heard of losing as much as 5 through a 3 core, though.

Another thought -- you lose boost because of the intercooler restriction, but partially because the air has been cooled and is denser...that isn't a bad thing at all.

Sorry for the long post.

------------------
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

yello95gt · 02-04-2001, 10:53 PM

NO SLO PK, I did not say it was bad. I just personaly do not think the intercooler is worth loosing any boost at all. I have not seen any reason for running an intercooler on the cars I've seen.The guy I know had alot of touble with customer service dealing with ATI.I just think the vortec is a better product and opinions is what he was asking for. But if it works for you, then thats great.

NO SLO PK · 02-05-2001, 01:10 AM

Yello95,

I'm definitely not claiming that ATI makes better head units than Vortech. In fact, I know installers who say the P600B in 14 lb. configuration is prone to failure.

But on the topic of boost redcution through the intercooler, what do you give up vs. what do you get? In terms of actual engine longevity, the risk of detonation is much less with an intercooler, which means less chances for failures with head gasket, rings, and pistons. In terms of power production, you spin the blower a little more with intercooler to get the same boost, but you make a lot more power in return. Of course, these advantages are negated with race fuel.

My car's traveled over 90k miles with other blowers, and about 15k miles with the ATI. I gotta say there's no way I'm going back to a blower without an intercooler.

------------------
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

02-01-2001, 07:40 PM	#1
n20neenee Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san angelo tx Posts: 32	ATI vs S-Trim Now these are teh two big names in superchargers, why is it that even though with the ATI you can run 30 psi intercooled, but the super fast stangs run S-trim? I am not trying to start a war, but Is the ATI not as efficient as teh S-trim?

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02-01-2001, 08:16 PM	#2
mazur50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: IL Posts: 172	Well the reason is that the reason people like ATI is because they are intercooled a intercooled car is easer to tune, and easer on parts because it is easer to tune.The Ati need to make more boost at the blower then the s-trim because of the intercooler.You lose somthing like 3-5 pounds in the intercooler. So the answer to you question is no one is not more efficent then the other .you can get a ATI with out intercooler.You tend to get more from the ATI if it has no intercooler. Sorry it was so long if you have any other question. E-mail me mazur50@aol.com ------------------ 1989 lx with a blueprinted AOD and Pi converter headers off road h-pipe, msd6al, electric fan, underdrive pulleys, 3.73 gear, 2 chanber flowmasters, subframe connectors, K&N cone filter, Factory Five control arms, Trans cooler, 150amp alternator, 255 lph fuel pump, 50_175 hp shot with out the nos got 1.90 60ft on pepboy tires 225 60 r15 i need slicks New B&M Hammer shifter and New ford cable and a set of pony rims www.geocities.com/mazur50/

02-02-2001, 12:48 AM	#3
smooth Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: illinois, USA Posts: 649	i think the correct topic would be ATI vs. Vortech

02-02-2001, 01:09 AM	#4
MrGtStang Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Valdosta,Ga Posts: 16	I Dont have personal expereince in this field, but ill give my opinon, Ive heard nothing but great things since ATI Came out. everyguy i talk to with a ATI Loves it would never get rid of it. i know some guys that had vortechs and switched to ATI And would never go back. But think of this... Vortech sure has been around along time, they got to do something right? If it was me and im just stating my plans and opinon. I Like the intercooled ATI. ------------------ Mike A.k.A MrGtStang 1986 GT, 12.75, To Many to List. 1995 GT, 13.97, 3.73's, flowmasters, ADS Chip, K&N, Removed Intake Silencer, Stock AODE,

02-02-2001, 01:24 AM	#5
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	mazer50.....you completely lost me man ------------------ 1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers By the time summer comes ill have full Mac exhaust,new shifter knob and what ever else i can afford

02-02-2001, 11:22 AM	#6
84_GT350 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA Posts: 1,631	A raging debate, to be sure. Personally, I like the ATIs more. It's just easier to make power with them I think. Vortec does offer an aftercooler, but it costs $1200 extra and seems to be a total pain in the @ss to hook up (it's water-to-air so you have to wire up a water pump and whatnot). I've got a few friends who have ATIs cuz their headquarters are about 10 mins away from here and I've helped install a few. Not quite as easy as a Vortec install, but I think you'll be happy you spent the extra time. ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

02-02-2001, 12:28 PM	#7
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	First let me start off by saying that the ATI and Vortech units are very good blowers. Now, as far as the Vortech's being some of the fastest all the time - well, I beg to differ. In different race classes there are certain blowers that dominate (or in some cases, turbos or nitrous oxide), but all in all the Vortech and ATI Stangs run about the same. One race the ATI wins, the next it's the Vortech. Just as an example, Bennett Racing (from somewhere in Alabama) has a couple ProCharged Stangs running in the 7's @ ~ 180 mph - pretty damn quick if you ask me. And then there is the Renegade class which was full of ATI blown Stangs that won a ton of races this past season. Additionally, this past season, Les Baer (another top Mustang drag racer) switched to a ProCharger D3M blower. Overall, success really depends upon so many things - engine combination, cam selection, suspension setup, gearing, transmission, the list goes on and on. The fact is that ATI and Vortech make some extremely powerful superchargers that are capable of producing HP levels into the 1600 HP range - given a properly built engine of course. So, to wrap up, ATI and Vortech are probably just about equal in efficiency, but remember that it is not always the guy with the most CFM or psi that wins (although it never hurts! ) E ------------------ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe -37,800 miles 13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60' Pro-Charger D-1SC on the way!!!

02-02-2001, 03:16 PM	#8
yello95gt Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: jackson,Ms 39208 Posts: 20	N2O, personally I believe the s-trim is better, because to get 10 pounds of boost on the ATI, you have to run 14lbs of boost thru the intercooler. Thus, this puts extra wear and tear on the motor just to produce the same boost as the the vortech without an intercooler. Also I have a friend who has already been through 2 head units with the ATI, due to bearing failure. As far as 302 LX Eric said, that is true about the D1 prochargers dominating some classes. But, they are not running intercoolers on these superchargers.

02-02-2001, 04:46 PM	#9
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	yello95gt - sorry to hear that your friend has had two bearing failures. Does he have the older stlye unit (the P600B)? ATI has upgraded the bearings and load capacities on their new D series and in the P-1 series too.

02-03-2001, 11:07 AM	#10
89 ATI Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lafayette, Indiana Posts: 120	It all comes down on the street to how much boost you want to run on 93 octane. I run 14# with a 2 core intercooler on 93 octane. If you want to go to the track and run race gas you can run lots of boost without an intercooler but race gas gets kind of expensive running it on the street. ------------------ 89 GT convertible, Kenny Brown level 5, 14# Procharger

02-04-2001, 08:03 PM	#11
buddha Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Washington, MO Posts: 327	It depends on who you talk to. Personally, I own an ATI and will never buy another. Due to belt problems, various blower accessories failing, and poor customer service, has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Others have had better luck than myself. Talk to guys with differnt blowers on their cars to get the best advice. Vortech has much more out there as far as head units, accessories, and fuel systems. Paxtons new Novi line looks pretty killer also. And if you go with an ATI, hopefully their product has improved since I bought my kit from them.

02-04-2001, 09:30 PM	#12
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Wait a minute, whose losing 5 psi of boost through an ATI Intercooler? I lose 2 psi with a mild setup which gives 9 pounds in the manifold. My buddy's ATI was was making 17 psi in the manifold/ 21 at the blower -- and he was running full timing on 92 octane, believe it or don't. I suppose if you try to pack too much boost through the smaller 2 core then you can lose a lot of boost. I just haven't heard of losing as much as 5 through a 3 core, though. Another thought -- you lose boost because of the intercooler restriction, but partially because the air has been cooled and is denser...that isn't a bad thing at all. Sorry for the long post. ------------------ '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

02-04-2001, 10:53 PM	#13
yello95gt Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: jackson,Ms 39208 Posts: 20	NO SLO PK, I did not say it was bad. I just personaly do not think the intercooler is worth loosing any boost at all. I have not seen any reason for running an intercooler on the cars I've seen.The guy I know had alot of touble with customer service dealing with ATI.I just think the vortec is a better product and opinions is what he was asking for. But if it works for you, then thats great.

02-05-2001, 01:10 AM	#14
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Yello95, I'm definitely not claiming that ATI makes better head units than Vortech. In fact, I know installers who say the P600B in 14 lb. configuration is prone to failure. But on the topic of boost redcution through the intercooler, what do you give up vs. what do you get? In terms of actual engine longevity, the risk of detonation is much less with an intercooler, which means less chances for failures with head gasket, rings, and pistons. In terms of power production, you spin the blower a little more with intercooler to get the same boost, but you make a lot more power in return. Of course, these advantages are negated with race fuel. My car's traveled over 90k miles with other blowers, and about 15k miles with the ATI. I gotta say there's no way I'm going back to a blower without an intercooler. ------------------ '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.