13s with a stocker, Bull**** - Page 3

Unit 5302 · 04-30-2001, 01:44 AM

24lb injector will support better than 400hp easy.

Get an adjustable FPR, 24's and play with the fuel pressure, start at about 46psi. According to the stang analyzer 58 psi is the setting you should have with 405 crank hp. Of course, that's an estimate. Based on your combo making 360hp you'd set at 46psi. Adjust from there. Although I'm betting a dyno tune would add some serious hp if you are just out of tune.

The 30lbers are huge for what you have. You could nearly run 24lb injectors at stock pressure!! Right now if you don't have your fuel pressure turned way down (which will give you a shitty spray pattern), the computer has to be using all it's ability to adjust the pulse width on the injector. Anyway, your friend may have had a weak injector, or maybe you didn't pull the battery cable and reset the stock computer? How long did you drive it that way?

I think you should be in the 11's with the spray and traction to tell you the truth.

If the head/cam/intake combo was installed properly you can narrow the problems down pretty good.

MAF, computer, ignition, or fuel system (which we know isn't right).

What ignition are you running? If you are running stock, I'd suggest upgrading it, especially since you have bumped the CR.

Perhaps the antiknock sensor on your intake is malfunctioning and the computer is yanking timing like nobody's business?

There are still a lot of variables, but swapping the computer, MAF and injectors should give you an idea what's going on with the data crunching side of things. Swapping the injectors will allow for a better spray pattern and performance for sure. Am I reading your mods list correct? Your MAF is also 70mm? I would seriously think about upgrading to a ProM77 or equivelent.

[This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 04-30-2001).]

Rick 91GT · 04-30-2001, 07:41 AM

Well to be honest Holley does recommend 30# injectors with the kit. What heads do you have from Holley (vlave size, PT# if you know it) I went with the 24# injectors because I heard people having issues with too much fuel with the 30#'s, but now I wish I would have went with the 30#'s injectors as I have done more mods adn the heads and cam I currently have could take advantage of more fuel. I really don't think it;'s the injectors but it could be..nothing surprises me any more. When you said it was popping at cold start and idle, I had that problem with my 75mm Pro-M, after it warmed up it disappeared. How does it feel in the lower Rms, where does the cam feel like it comes on, where does the power feel like it falls off?

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

Mean50 · 04-30-2001, 10:15 AM

Well the Holley heads are the ones that come with the Systemax II kit. I think they are 1.94 valves not the 2.02s. My friends engine is currently down so I am going to swap the injectors again and play with the fuel pressure and timing. It feels strong at low RPMs, but it just doesn't come on like it should. You can feel that something is restraining it. If I change injectors then I will have to purchase a MAF, what would be the best choice? How hard is it to swap computers?

As for using the E303 cam, that would totally take away from the Kit that Holley tested for best results.

------------------
89 LX Coupe
306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears
50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light

TEXSN95 · 04-30-2001, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSloAod:
texsn95 my best 1/8 mile is I think 8.60 something. i dont know where your track is but fun ford weekend is at houston raceway park may 5-6, you should come down and we can set something up. your car should run low low 13 sec 1/4 judging from your mph and 60 foot times, but i have no worries

Navasota is only an 1/8 mile track, and its 20 miles from college station on hwy 6 towards houston. I'd like to go to fun ford weekend, but i have to go to my usmc unit this weekend. Drill weekends always come at the worst time.

------------------
Clint L.
White 95 Cobra #3637
58cc GT40X heads with mild porting, Crane 2031 cam, FRPP 65 TB, 1.7s, Cobra intake, homeade cold air, 155lph, pullies, Tokico Illuminas, C springs, GW lower control arms, Steeda CC plates, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda quadrant, MSD6A, Mac shorties, off road hpipe, 2 1/2 ultra flows w/ dumps, R hood, Euro clear corners, stock 3.08s
13.61 @ 104.7 w/ 2.22

Skyman · 04-30-2001, 04:53 PM

Ok lets see here... Somethin is really fuckd up. First off you need some HARD Numbers from a track, no matter what altitude because we can correct for that.

Heres an example though, I ran at a 3300elevation track and ran 13.8@100 mph... with no changes to the car I ran at almost sea level at another track and went 12.5@107. I had better track but 7mph difference! Other people report the same loss in MPH at this track so that could come into play.

Also please list IN DETAIL every part to your engine, intake, exhaust, ignition, plug gap, FP, Timing, ETC. Im sure we can find out whats wrong but you need to address all these issues first or its just guessing.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

go4it · 04-30-2001, 08:22 PM

If anyone is interested Bristol, Tenn. is 1615 elevation.

------------------
93GT, S-trim (2.95 pulley), SFMU, Stage 2 TFS TW heads, Stage 2 Cobra intake, AFM powerpipe, PRO-M 75mm massair, 75mm throttle body, 42lb.inj. 1 5/8 headers, 2 1/2 h-pipe and exhaust, 2 chamber Flowmasters, 3.55 gears, Ultradyne cam, Elder.timing gears, Black Magic fan, 3 row alum.rad. MSD6al/BTM, MSD coil, MSD shift light, subframe connectors, A-pillar gauges, Pro-5.0 shifter.

Rick 91GT · 05-01-2001, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mean50:
Well the Holley heads are the ones that come with the Systemax II kit. I think they are 1.94 valves not the 2.02s. My friends engine is currently down so I am going to swap the injectors again and play with the fuel pressure and timing. It feels strong at low RPMs, but it just doesn't come on like it should. You can feel that something is restraining it. If I change injectors then I will have to purchase a MAF, what would be the best choice? How hard is it to swap computers?

As for using the E303 cam, that would totally take away from the Kit that Holley tested for best results.

What Holley cam are you running the #51027 non-emissions systemax cam? Well when I was running that cam with my 24# and 75mm Pro-M I ran 41psi of fuel and 16 degrees timing, in the summer weather it seemed to run really good right there. (I switched to a Anderson Custom grind and a 76mm C&L, I plan on switching to 30# injectors a little later in the summer.)

With the old set-up the cam felt like it came on around 3500 and the car pulls straight to the factory rev limiter really hard in all gears. I always thought my low end was a little less due to the big 2.02 valves I have but the motor screamed.

I will have the new set-up started for the first time tonight, I'll post how it feels but I need to baby the T-5 to break it in as I just rebuilt it with all new internals, the other one was trashed bad!

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

SaleenGTS · 05-01-2001, 09:00 AM

Hey Rick...how do you like that C&L 76?? I have heard a lot of different opinions. Trying to decide between that and a Pro-M 77.

Thanks Buddy

------------------
Dustin
93 Cobra 261 rwhp
89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp(TFS Intake,TFS Heads, BD-11A 9#,Ecam,1.6 rr's, BBK longtubes, lots more...

Mean50 · 05-01-2001, 09:43 AM

Well I switched back to the 24#ers and am going to try that to see if i can get it worked out. I will keep you posted.

------------------
89 LX Coupe
306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears
50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light

Rick 91GT · 05-01-2001, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SaleenGTS:
Hey Rick...how do you like that C&L 76?? I have heard a lot of different opinions. Trying to decide between that and a Pro-M 77.

Thanks Buddy

I will know tonight when I finally start my beast after a long 14 weeks with out it! I am so pumped I'll post late tonight or tomorrow on how things work out. I have heard good things about the C&L 76mm. The only problem I ran into is since I have a 1" phenolic spacer which changes the angle of that nice tube they supply so I scooted my Mass Air meter over about 1" to make clearance so it didn't rub the shock tower, god I can't wait to get it started, I have done so much these last couple months it will be like a new car

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

05-01-2001, 07:38 PM

I know I use to take my stang to the track when the only mods I had where 3.55 gears, one night in particular I had the fastest stock engine 5.0 over there and I ran a 15.01 at 90 mph. That is why it is hard for me to believe that guys are running 13s with minor mods.

It's possible! A few years ago when I had a 1988GT, everything being stock except for 3:73 gears, K&N, Off RD H-PIPE and CAT-BACK, I went 13.90, with minor mods.

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04-30-2001, 01:44 AM	#41
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	24lb injector will support better than 400hp easy. Get an adjustable FPR, 24's and play with the fuel pressure, start at about 46psi. According to the stang analyzer 58 psi is the setting you should have with 405 crank hp. Of course, that's an estimate. Based on your combo making 360hp you'd set at 46psi. Adjust from there. Although I'm betting a dyno tune would add some serious hp if you are just out of tune. The 30lbers are huge for what you have. You could nearly run 24lb injectors at stock pressure!! Right now if you don't have your fuel pressure turned way down (which will give you a shitty spray pattern), the computer has to be using all it's ability to adjust the pulse width on the injector. Anyway, your friend may have had a weak injector, or maybe you didn't pull the battery cable and reset the stock computer? How long did you drive it that way? I think you should be in the 11's with the spray and traction to tell you the truth. If the head/cam/intake combo was installed properly you can narrow the problems down pretty good. MAF, computer, ignition, or fuel system (which we know isn't right). What ignition are you running? If you are running stock, I'd suggest upgrading it, especially since you have bumped the CR. Perhaps the antiknock sensor on your intake is malfunctioning and the computer is yanking timing like nobody's business? There are still a lot of variables, but swapping the computer, MAF and injectors should give you an idea what's going on with the data crunching side of things. Swapping the injectors will allow for a better spray pattern and performance for sure. Am I reading your mods list correct? Your MAF is also 70mm? I would seriously think about upgrading to a ProM77 or equivelent. [This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 04-30-2001).]

04-30-2001, 07:41 AM	#42
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Well to be honest Holley does recommend 30# injectors with the kit. What heads do you have from Holley (vlave size, PT# if you know it) I went with the 24# injectors because I heard people having issues with too much fuel with the 30#'s, but now I wish I would have went with the 30#'s injectors as I have done more mods adn the heads and cam I currently have could take advantage of more fuel. I really don't think it;'s the injectors but it could be..nothing surprises me any more. When you said it was popping at cold start and idle, I had that problem with my 75mm Pro-M, after it warmed up it disappeared. How does it feel in the lower Rms, where does the cam feel like it comes on, where does the power feel like it falls off? ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

04-30-2001, 10:15 AM	#43
Mean50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 118	Well the Holley heads are the ones that come with the Systemax II kit. I think they are 1.94 valves not the 2.02s. My friends engine is currently down so I am going to swap the injectors again and play with the fuel pressure and timing. It feels strong at low RPMs, but it just doesn't come on like it should. You can feel that something is restraining it. If I change injectors then I will have to purchase a MAF, what would be the best choice? How hard is it to swap computers? As for using the E303 cam, that would totally take away from the Kit that Holley tested for best results. ------------------ 89 LX Coupe 306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears 50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light

04-30-2001, 04:53 PM	#45
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Ok lets see here... Somethin is really fuckd up. First off you need some HARD Numbers from a track, no matter what altitude because we can correct for that. Heres an example though, I ran at a 3300elevation track and ran 13.8@100 mph... with no changes to the car I ran at almost sea level at another track and went 12.5@107. I had better track but 7mph difference! Other people report the same loss in MPH at this track so that could come into play. Also please list IN DETAIL every part to your engine, intake, exhaust, ignition, plug gap, FP, Timing, ETC. Im sure we can find out whats wrong but you need to address all these issues first or its just guessing. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!!

04-30-2001, 08:22 PM	#46
go4it Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Wise,Va. Posts: 248	If anyone is interested Bristol, Tenn. is 1615 elevation. ------------------ 93GT, S-trim (2.95 pulley), SFMU, Stage 2 TFS TW heads, Stage 2 Cobra intake, AFM powerpipe, PRO-M 75mm massair, 75mm throttle body, 42lb.inj. 1 5/8 headers, 2 1/2 h-pipe and exhaust, 2 chamber Flowmasters, 3.55 gears, Ultradyne cam, Elder.timing gears, Black Magic fan, 3 row alum.rad. MSD6al/BTM, MSD coil, MSD shift light, subframe connectors, A-pillar gauges, Pro-5.0 shifter.

05-01-2001, 09:00 AM	#48
SaleenGTS RICE taste like Chicken Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 687	Hey Rick...how do you like that C&L 76?? I have heard a lot of different opinions. Trying to decide between that and a Pro-M 77. Thanks Buddy ------------------ Dustin 93 Cobra 261 rwhp 89 GT(Saleen Clone) 392 rwhp(TFS Intake,TFS Heads, BD-11A 9#,Ecam,1.6 rr's, BBK longtubes, lots more...

05-01-2001, 09:43 AM	#49
Mean50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 118	Well I switched back to the 24#ers and am going to try that to see if i can get it worked out. I will keep you posted. ------------------ 89 LX Coupe 306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears 50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light

05-01-2001, 07:38 PM	#51
5.0SN95GT Guest Posts: n/a	I know I use to take my stang to the track when the only mods I had where 3.55 gears, one night in particular I had the fastest stock engine 5.0 over there and I ran a 15.01 at 90 mph. That is why it is hard for me to believe that guys are running 13s with minor mods. It's possible! A few years ago when I had a 1988GT, everything being stock except for 3:73 gears, K&N, Off RD H-PIPE and CAT-BACK, I went 13.90, with minor mods.