3.55's, 3.73's Or 4.10's??? - Page 2

slider · 03-19-2001, 02:05 AM

thanks dinomite. I will copy that and keep it for my notes.

though I'm still curious to know what Skyman's is runing

Skyman · 03-19-2001, 02:10 AM

Ok ok ok, Ill do it tomrrow. But I cant see how a 351 w/ tfs R heads is giong to peak hp at 5000. Thats really low. I have street heats peakin at 5500.

Sky

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's.
332RWHP@5500
351RWTQ@3750
Runs on 87 Octane!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-19-2001, 03:44 AM

Sky, What u have to do, is jack it up until the wheels are off the ground, mark the driveshaft with chalk, mark the wheel & remember where they are at, then spin the wheel 1 fill time around, & as you are doing that, watch the d/s & count how many times it goes around. Simple!

here are the dyno specs:

RPM TORQUE HORSEPOWER
2500 367 157
3000 386 220
3500 428 285
4000 458 349
4500 443 380
5000 421 401
5500 351 367

max hp 401@500rpm
max torque 458@4000rpm

that is on 87 octn gas

Sky, How Come Your Never On The Chat???

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang
My Site

jimberg · 03-19-2001, 06:43 AM

The point I was trying to make is that you don't get something for nothing. I've seen other messages here where people just can't understand why they can't go any faster. One guy is even dropping his EFI to go with a carb thinking that the EFI is holding him back.

They start with a stock Mustang with 4.10 gears which help a lot and then they do a lot of modifications and keep the gears. At this point, the gears are hurting and not helping.

BowTie, those numbers don't look right. The E303 should give you power through 6000 rpm and the TFS 351 intake should compliment that. Are those actual dyno numbers or did the builder just give you the numbers?

Regardless of where your power ends, anything above 3.55 would be a waste with torque produced by a 358. Unless, of course, you give up a lot of torque for HP through 8000 rpms.

slider · 03-19-2001, 01:45 PM

ops, i meant "rbatson"
thanks for the input

tomorrow, skyman? maaaann

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-21-2001, 08:48 PM

jimberg, those are actual dyno numbers, from a magazine.

i just found out my car has 3.08s, would these work or should i still change them???

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

jimberg · 03-21-2001, 09:31 PM

I'd stick with them for now. When it's all built, take it to find out what your dyno numbers are and then make your decision based on that actual data.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 03-22-2001).]

Rick 91GT · 03-21-2001, 11:06 PM

I'm with Jim Berg Boti, I still can't see why it is making peak power at 5000rpm with the TFS-R, the numbers just don't add up. I would go 3:55's since you will have all the torque of the 351. Why such a small cam?

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-22-2001, 12:13 AM

the main reason for the cam, is because it wont require fly cut pistons with the motor combo. ill list everything i can think of, so here it goes

stock 351 block bored .030, stock crank modified for ford 400ci connecting rods, je pistons, tfs intake, 30lbers, 83mm maf, tfs r heads, crane cam (same as e303), 1.7rockers,... thats all i remember now. it costs 4k to build, runs on 87 octn, gets better gas milage than a stock 5.0!!!

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

Rick 91GT · 03-22-2001, 08:22 AM

Boti if you are spending the money for new JE .030 Pistons they should have the valve reliefs and you will be able to go with a much larger cam. The Cam is the heart of the motor, it will make or break a car. IMO I feel with that intake and head combo you want will need the RPMS to flow their potential. With a healthy 351 you may even consider 36# injectors, it all depends what is in your future? What compression ratio are you going to run?

For instance.. my next motor will either be a 393-408 I really haven't decieded yet it will have a X Trim Vortech behind it, I want to go 9's. Now the motor is in the future as my 302 only has 3K on it and should run 11's this year, the Blower should be on in a year or so if all goes well. I shift my 302 at 6300 and it is still pulling and my new Anderson can really should make the motor work better and more efficently, I would re-consider your cam and run good 92-93 octane gas through it!

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

[This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 03-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 03-22-2001).]

dinomite · 03-22-2001, 01:29 PM

I don't know much about cams, but what the others are saying makes sense, you should be able to get power a lot higher. I do disagree with running 92+ octane, stick with your 87! You will get a little more power with the extra octane, but its so cool to run it on regular!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-23-2001, 01:26 AM

I dont want to wreck the motor by revvin the thing to the moon to make powr. i dont know what rpm the stock block & crank can safley rev to.

it will have 11:1 comp. the thing will have lots of low end. thats wat i want, dont want to rev to make power.

it will have 1.7 rockers, so that means lift will be .529"

also, i can get a hold of some 4.10s for cheep. should i get them, or stick to the 3.08s???

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

jimberg · 03-23-2001, 09:30 AM

You absolutely do not want 4.10s if you are going to keep the motor the same. The 3.08s should be just fine for now.

I have a 351 (check out my parts from my user ride link) and still have 2.73s. I can waste the new Camaros and Firebirds, probably Corvettes, too, but they are chickens or old men. I plan to go with 3.55s since I'm not getting into my power band fast enough. Anything more than that would just gooify my tiresm, if the 3.55s don't already. I'm not running slicks, though. If you do, you also have to consider the strength of your axles. I see my street tires as a circuit breaker.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Rick 91GT · 03-23-2001, 10:23 AM

You'll never run 11:1 on 87 octane. I still think you are choking it with the cam, don't go 1.7's get a higher lift cam and go 1.6's they put less stress on the valve trian, I'm sure some others will agree with me. I do agree with Jim go 3:55's the 4:10's will be way to much for the torque of a 351, you just don't need it. If your not planning on running high rpms you don't need the TFS R heads or Intake. Those componets like the high RPMS. Get a set of 185 AFR's and a Holley or Track Heat Upper.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

jimberg · 03-23-2001, 11:15 AM

Rick91GT is correct about the 1.7s. You should go with a camshaft that has the lift you desire. 1.7s are a bandaid so that you can get more lift out of a cam without having to replace it.

The 351 TFS intake, however, is the correct intake to go with. The runners are shorter, but you want that when you have more displacement. Shorter runners give up some torque in favor of more horsepower. You can afford to do that. I have a GT-40 intake now, and I wish I had the TFS intake. I'll probably get one next year or if I see a deal on one.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Rick 91GT · 03-23-2001, 04:10 PM

Jim your right about the intake for a minute I forgot he had a 351, the intake choices are limited the TFS is the way to go there.

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-24-2001, 01:45 PM

What cam should i go 4?? reccomend 1 for me that would be better. I dont want fly cut pistons, so 1 with the same lift or less.

im thinkin this one caus that is what they used in the article
The R heads made 20+ more hp compared to the T/Ws. thats why im goin with them.
I will get 355s, when the time comes.

Rick 91GT · 03-24-2001, 02:00 PM

Hey Boti- Your JE pistons will already be notched right? Or are you running pop-up or domed pistons to get the 11:1. The pistons will determine what cam to get. Can you give more info on the pistons and how they got 11:1.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 03-24-2001, 02:53 PM

Rick, I Have The JEPistan Part # Its #139105

GO TO THE CHATROOM NOW & ILL TELL U MORE

vande97 · 03-24-2001, 11:51 PM

something was said about only going 102mph, well i have 410 and would go no other way i can run 130mph all day long. All you have to do is invest a little money to get it to hook up. well good luck with what ever you do i am shure that thing is going to scream with what ever you decide to go with it

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03-19-2001, 02:05 AM	#21
slider Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 86	thanks dinomite. I will copy that and keep it for my notes. though I'm still curious to know what Skyman's is runing

03-19-2001, 02:10 AM	#22
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Ok ok ok, Ill do it tomrrow. But I cant see how a 351 w/ tfs R heads is giong to peak hp at 5000. Thats really low. I have street heats peakin at 5500. Sky ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's. 332RWHP@5500 351RWTQ@3750 Runs on 87 Octane!

03-19-2001, 03:44 AM	#23
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	Sky, What u have to do, is jack it up until the wheels are off the ground, mark the driveshaft with chalk, mark the wheel & remember where they are at, then spin the wheel 1 fill time around, & as you are doing that, watch the d/s & count how many times it goes around. Simple! here are the dyno specs: RPM TORQUE HORSEPOWER 2500 367 157 3000 386 220 3500 428 285 4000 458 349 4500 443 380 5000 421 401 5500 351 367 max hp 401@500rpm max torque 458@4000rpm that is on 87 octn gas Sky, How Come Your Never On The Chat??? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!). My Stang My Site

03-19-2001, 06:43 AM	#24
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	The point I was trying to make is that you don't get something for nothing. I've seen other messages here where people just can't understand why they can't go any faster. One guy is even dropping his EFI to go with a carb thinking that the EFI is holding him back. They start with a stock Mustang with 4.10 gears which help a lot and then they do a lot of modifications and keep the gears. At this point, the gears are hurting and not helping. BowTie, those numbers don't look right. The E303 should give you power through 6000 rpm and the TFS 351 intake should compliment that. Are those actual dyno numbers or did the builder just give you the numbers? Regardless of where your power ends, anything above 3.55 would be a waste with torque produced by a 358. Unless, of course, you give up a lot of torque for HP through 8000 rpms.

03-19-2001, 01:45 PM	#25
slider Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 86	ops, i meant "rbatson" thanks for the input tomorrow, skyman? maaaann

03-21-2001, 08:48 PM	#26
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	jimberg, those are actual dyno numbers, from a magazine. i just found out my car has 3.08s, would these work or should i still change them??? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!). My Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

03-21-2001, 09:31 PM	#27
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I'd stick with them for now. When it's all built, take it to find out what your dyno numbers are and then make your decision based on that actual data. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible [This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 03-22-2001).]

03-21-2001, 11:06 PM	#28
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	I'm with Jim Berg Boti, I still can't see why it is making peak power at 5000rpm with the TFS-R, the numbers just don't add up. I would go 3:55's since you will have all the torque of the 351. Why such a small cam? ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

03-22-2001, 12:13 AM	#29
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	the main reason for the cam, is because it wont require fly cut pistons with the motor combo. ill list everything i can think of, so here it goes stock 351 block bored .030, stock crank modified for ford 400ci connecting rods, je pistons, tfs intake, 30lbers, 83mm maf, tfs r heads, crane cam (same as e303), 1.7rockers,... thats all i remember now. it costs 4k to build, runs on 87 octn, gets better gas milage than a stock 5.0!!! ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!). My Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

03-22-2001, 08:22 AM	#30
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Boti if you are spending the money for new JE .030 Pistons they should have the valve reliefs and you will be able to go with a much larger cam. The Cam is the heart of the motor, it will make or break a car. IMO I feel with that intake and head combo you want will need the RPMS to flow their potential. With a healthy 351 you may even consider 36# injectors, it all depends what is in your future? What compression ratio are you going to run? For instance.. my next motor will either be a 393-408 I really haven't decieded yet it will have a X Trim Vortech behind it, I want to go 9's. Now the motor is in the future as my 302 only has 3K on it and should run 11's this year, the Blower should be on in a year or so if all goes well. I shift my 302 at 6300 and it is still pulling and my new Anderson can really should make the motor work better and more efficently, I would re-consider your cam and run good 92-93 octane gas through it! ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! [This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 03-22-2001).] [This message has been edited by Rick 91GT (edited 03-22-2001).]

03-22-2001, 01:29 PM	#31
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	I don't know much about cams, but what the others are saying makes sense, you should be able to get power a lot higher. I do disagree with running 92+ octane, stick with your 87! You will get a little more power with the extra octane, but its so cool to run it on regular!

03-23-2001, 01:26 AM	#32
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	I dont want to wreck the motor by revvin the thing to the moon to make powr. i dont know what rpm the stock block & crank can safley rev to. it will have 11:1 comp. the thing will have lots of low end. thats wat i want, dont want to rev to make power. it will have 1.7 rockers, so that means lift will be .529" also, i can get a hold of some 4.10s for cheep. should i get them, or stick to the 3.08s??? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!). My Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

03-23-2001, 09:30 AM	#33
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You absolutely do not want 4.10s if you are going to keep the motor the same. The 3.08s should be just fine for now. I have a 351 (check out my parts from my user ride link) and still have 2.73s. I can waste the new Camaros and Firebirds, probably Corvettes, too, but they are chickens or old men. I plan to go with 3.55s since I'm not getting into my power band fast enough. Anything more than that would just gooify my tiresm, if the 3.55s don't already. I'm not running slicks, though. If you do, you also have to consider the strength of your axles. I see my street tires as a circuit breaker. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

03-23-2001, 10:23 AM	#34
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	You'll never run 11:1 on 87 octane. I still think you are choking it with the cam, don't go 1.7's get a higher lift cam and go 1.6's they put less stress on the valve trian, I'm sure some others will agree with me. I do agree with Jim go 3:55's the 4:10's will be way to much for the torque of a 351, you just don't need it. If your not planning on running high rpms you don't need the TFS R heads or Intake. Those componets like the high RPMS. Get a set of 185 AFR's and a Holley or Track Heat Upper. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

03-23-2001, 11:15 AM	#35
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Rick91GT is correct about the 1.7s. You should go with a camshaft that has the lift you desire. 1.7s are a bandaid so that you can get more lift out of a cam without having to replace it. The 351 TFS intake, however, is the correct intake to go with. The runners are shorter, but you want that when you have more displacement. Shorter runners give up some torque in favor of more horsepower. You can afford to do that. I have a GT-40 intake now, and I wish I had the TFS intake. I'll probably get one next year or if I see a deal on one. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

03-23-2001, 04:10 PM	#36
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Jim your right about the intake for a minute I forgot he had a 351, the intake choices are limited the TFS is the way to go there.

03-24-2001, 01:45 PM	#37
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	What cam should i go 4?? reccomend 1 for me that would be better. I dont want fly cut pistons, so 1 with the same lift or less. im thinkin this one caus that is what they used in the article The R heads made 20+ more hp compared to the T/Ws. thats why im goin with them. I will get 355s, when the time comes.

03-24-2001, 02:00 PM	#38
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Hey Boti- Your JE pistons will already be notched right? Or are you running pop-up or domed pistons to get the 11:1. The pistons will determine what cam to get. Can you give more info on the pistons and how they got 11:1. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon!

03-24-2001, 02:53 PM	#39
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	Rick, I Have The JEPistan Part # Its #139105 GO TO THE CHATROOM NOW & ILL TELL U MORE

03-24-2001, 11:51 PM	#40
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	something was said about only going 102mph, well i have 410 and would go no other way i can run 130mph all day long. All you have to do is invest a little money to get it to hook up. well good luck with what ever you do i am shure that thing is going to scream with what ever you decide to go with it