Odd...

joe4speed · 05-21-2002, 12:38 AM

Well, I haven't posted here with a problem in a looooong time!! Very long time!(Lucky me) But it was bound to happen! I'll try to explain.

I was driving to Staples today to get some cd-r's and all was fine, the car was running great, even got into it a little with another Stang, it was running normally, all was well.
I went into Staples, I was in there for about 20 mins, having my ear talked off from the guy behind the register about how nice my car was, and that the red Trans-Am I parked next to was his, and what he's doing, what I've done so far, blah, blah, blah... Finally he rings me up and I'm on my merry way.
I get in, start it up, back out of the space, go to pull around the corner by the front of the store, and go to nail it a little(show off), and as soon as I hit it, it bogs down real bad seeming like it stalled. As soon as I let off the gas it idled fine, and as long as I didn't give it more than 25% throttle, it wouldn't bog, ran normal. I pulled over and opened the hood while it was running. (far away from staples, might I add

) I give it full throttle under the hood, and it revved flawlessly, so I get back in thinking it was a freak occurrance, and as soon as I start to drive, I hit it again and it does it again.
The fuel pressure was fine, the volts were fine, the temp was fine, and vaccuum was fine. It did smell a little rich, I believe, when it happened. I don't have my ScanTool with me so I never hooked it up to the computer, I'll get it tomorrow...
Any thoughts, guesses??

joe4speed · 05-21-2002, 10:47 AM

Here's what I got from the computer:
KOEO:
34 EGR Valve position sensor voltage out of limits
67 neutral drive switch, neutral gear switch, neutral pressure switch, clutch switch, manual lever position, or air conditioner clutch.

KOER:
94 thermactor air system... right side
44 problems in the thermactor air system

I drove it today, and it was running fine while it was cold (open loop?) and then when it warmed up, it did it again, but not so bad, it wouldn't always do it, only sometimes you could feel it miss/stumble under hard acceleration. I always get those codes, so that doesn't really help me.
Any thoughts??????????

richd · 05-21-2002, 04:35 PM

Maybe your EGR valve is open when it shouldn't be (under acceleration)?

Just a thought...

fiveohpatrol · 05-21-2002, 04:51 PM

I had the same situation, trying to show off and the thing just falls flat on its face.

The only thing I've found out that it could be is the Fuel pump cutoff (inertia) switch. Its in the very rear of your hatch (my trunk), and it shuts fuel pressure off upon an accident.

Some people say that over time, the rumbling and droning of aftermarket exhaust can damage the switch and when you accelerate quickly, it thinks that you are getting rear ended and it shuts your fuel pressure off.
Now, the whole truth to this, I am unsure of, but its something to take into consideration.

good luck hunting it down,
-Drew

joe4speed · 05-21-2002, 07:50 PM

still doin it, it was really bad a bit ago... runs fine when it's under 25% throttle but anything more and it dies... smells really rich but the air fuel gauge doesn't rise and the fuel pressure doesn't go any higher than normal.
I pulled the egr vaccuum off and noticed there is hardly any vaccuum there, should it be higher?
I checked the switch, all is well.... any other thoughts??

joe4speed · 05-21-2002, 07:50 PM

would the TFI module do that?

PKRWUD · 05-22-2002, 04:43 AM

did you try driving it w/ the egr disconnected and plugged?

Take care,
-Chris

joe4speed · 05-22-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
did you try driving it w/ the egr disconnected and plugged?

Take care,
-Chris

not yet, i'll try today!

joe4speed · 05-22-2002, 02:30 PM

well the egr made no difference... here is a vid showing how bad it stumbles when i give it gas. It smells really rich when it happens, but the fuel pressure isn't rising more than normal nor the a/f ratio...
http://www.joe4speed.com/badstang.MOV

joe4speed · 05-22-2002, 02:46 PM

God I hate quicktime, how do i make this a mpeg file???

PKRWUD · 05-22-2002, 06:04 PM

Sounds alot like a carbed engine w/ a bad accelerator pump. Hmmmm. Try running it with the SPOUT connector out, and see if there's a difference.

Take care,
-Chris

nitrousdave · 05-22-2002, 07:08 PM

This sounds similar to a problem we had with my friends car. It would run like you are describing ( smelling really rich, stumbles when you give it gas) and it turned out to be the fuel pump on his car. One day it finally didn't have enough pressure at all to run the car. just my .02
Dave

joe4speed · 05-23-2002, 11:30 AM

Ran it with the spout connector off, no difference, ran it with the tps unplugged, no difference, ran it with the MAF disconnected, no difference...
What the hell could this be??????????
It revs fine as long as i don't give it more than 25% throttle???????????? as soon as i push the throttle past that it stumbles and it even backfired a tad through the intake today.

joe4speed · 05-23-2002, 12:22 PM

Ok here's the deal... I disconnected the battery to reset the computer (for shits and giggles), and when i connected it, it ran 80% better. it revs now with just a tiny miss when you first floor it. When I took it out for a test drive, under full load at full throttle, I could still feel the miss but it was accelerating, unlike before when it would just die. Why would the computer do this??

The car needs a tuneup, I know... the sparkplugs have some good miles on them, I suppose later I'll take them out and see what they look like, could this have that kind of effect on my problem?

WHAT IS IT!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!

AGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PKRWUD · 05-23-2002, 02:54 PM

You said you always have those codes. 94 & 44 are r & l side thermactor failure. you yanked it anyway, so those are to be expected. 67 is probably your clutch switch. Does it work properly? 34 means either your EGR valve isn't seated all the way, or there's a problem with the EVP sensor, which is what tells the ECM where the EGR is. The EGR should always be closed at WOT, but if it's inable to close completely, you would get a miss. I'd pull the EGR off and inspect it. Make sure it's clean, and that it seats properly. Also check the electrical connector for the EVP.

Which codes are common?

Take care,
-Chris

joe4speed · 05-23-2002, 03:10 PM

well they're all pretty common... I always get the thermactor... I started getting the clutch one after the MAF conversion, and the egr one has been with me for a long time too, on and off, but it's never run like this before!

PKRWUD · 05-23-2002, 03:24 PM

what do the plugs look like?

Try forcing it again like in the video, but create a vacuum leak and tell me if it gets better/worse/stays the same

Take care,
-Chris

PKRWUD · 05-23-2002, 03:27 PM

Also, separate #5 & #6 farther apart. It looks like they're too close near the cap, and on the way to the plugs, too.

Hyper92GT · 05-24-2002, 09:53 AM

I had a similar problem. Trying to show off when the car bogged and missed. It got worse and worse and was the fuel pump.
Once I replaced it the car ran great.
You might want to look at the fuel delivery if you have not already.
Hope you find the problem.
Mike

joe4speed · 05-24-2002, 12:39 PM

OK it made no difference when I made a vaccuum leak, it just idled rougher, that's about it.
Here is a pic of the EGR... pretty clogged.... You think this can be a problem??

05-21-2002, 12:38 AM	#1
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Odd... Well, I haven't posted here with a problem in a looooong time!! Very long time!(Lucky me) But it was bound to happen! I'll try to explain. I was driving to Staples today to get some cd-r's and all was fine, the car was running great, even got into it a little with another Stang, it was running normally, all was well. I went into Staples, I was in there for about 20 mins, having my ear talked off from the guy behind the register about how nice my car was, and that the red Trans-Am I parked next to was his, and what he's doing, what I've done so far, blah, blah, blah... Finally he rings me up and I'm on my merry way. I get in, start it up, back out of the space, go to pull around the corner by the front of the store, and go to nail it a little(show off), and as soon as I hit it, it bogs down real bad seeming like it stalled. As soon as I let off the gas it idled fine, and as long as I didn't give it more than 25% throttle, it wouldn't bog, ran normal. I pulled over and opened the hood while it was running. (far away from staples, might I add ) I give it full throttle under the hood, and it revved flawlessly, so I get back in thinking it was a freak occurrance, and as soon as I start to drive, I hit it again and it does it again. The fuel pressure was fine, the volts were fine, the temp was fine, and vaccuum was fine. It did smell a little rich, I believe, when it happened. I don't have my ScanTool with me so I never hooked it up to the computer, I'll get it tomorrow... Any thoughts, guesses?? __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-21-2002, 10:47 AM	#2
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Here's what I got from the computer: KOEO: 34 EGR Valve position sensor voltage out of limits 67 neutral drive switch, neutral gear switch, neutral pressure switch, clutch switch, manual lever position, or air conditioner clutch. KOER: 94 thermactor air system... right side 44 problems in the thermactor air system I drove it today, and it was running fine while it was cold (open loop?) and then when it warmed up, it did it again, but not so bad, it wouldn't always do it, only sometimes you could feel it miss/stumble under hard acceleration. I always get those codes, so that doesn't really help me. Any thoughts?????????? __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-21-2002, 04:51 PM	#4
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	I had the same situation, trying to show off and the thing just falls flat on its face. The only thing I've found out that it could be is the Fuel pump cutoff (inertia) switch. Its in the very rear of your hatch (my trunk), and it shuts fuel pressure off upon an accident. Some people say that over time, the rumbling and droning of aftermarket exhaust can damage the switch and when you accelerate quickly, it thinks that you are getting rear ended and it shuts your fuel pressure off. Now, the whole truth to this, I am unsure of, but its something to take into consideration. good luck hunting it down, -Drew __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

05-22-2002, 04:43 AM	#7
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	did you try driving it w/ the egr disconnected and plugged? Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-22-2002, 02:30 PM	#9
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	well the egr made no difference... here is a vid showing how bad it stumbles when i give it gas. It smells really rich when it happens, but the fuel pressure isn't rising more than normal nor the a/f ratio... http://www.joe4speed.com/badstang.MOV __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-21-2002, 04:35 PM	#3
richd Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Edison, NJ, USA Posts: 125	Maybe your EGR valve is open when it shouldn't be (under acceleration)? Just a thought...

05-21-2002, 07:50 PM	#5
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	still doin it, it was really bad a bit ago... runs fine when it's under 25% throttle but anything more and it dies... smells really rich but the air fuel gauge doesn't rise and the fuel pressure doesn't go any higher than normal. I pulled the egr vaccuum off and noticed there is hardly any vaccuum there, should it be higher? I checked the switch, all is well.... any other thoughts?? __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-21-2002, 07:50 PM	#6
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	would the TFI module do that? __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-22-2002, 02:46 PM	#10
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	God I hate quicktime, how do i make this a mpeg file??? __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-22-2002, 06:04 PM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Sounds alot like a carbed engine w/ a bad accelerator pump. Hmmmm. Try running it with the SPOUT connector out, and see if there's a difference. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-22-2002, 07:08 PM	#12
nitrousdave Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: south bend, indiana Posts: 24	This sounds similar to a problem we had with my friends car. It would run like you are describing ( smelling really rich, stumbles when you give it gas) and it turned out to be the fuel pump on his car. One day it finally didn't have enough pressure at all to run the car. just my .02 Dave __________________ 85 GT 10 pt cage 11.68 to 1 408 windsor ported dart sr's super victor 9 inch w/4.11's bigshot plate turbo 350 trans etc etc

05-23-2002, 11:30 AM	#13
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Ran it with the spout connector off, no difference, ran it with the tps unplugged, no difference, ran it with the MAF disconnected, no difference... What the hell could this be?????????? It revs fine as long as i don't give it more than 25% throttle???????????? as soon as i push the throttle past that it stumbles and it even backfired a tad through the intake today. __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-23-2002, 12:22 PM	#14
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	Ok here's the deal... I disconnected the battery to reset the computer (for shits and giggles), and when i connected it, it ran 80% better. it revs now with just a tiny miss when you first floor it. When I took it out for a test drive, under full load at full throttle, I could still feel the miss but it was accelerating, unlike before when it would just die. Why would the computer do this?? The car needs a tuneup, I know... the sparkplugs have some good miles on them, I suppose later I'll take them out and see what they look like, could this have that kind of effect on my problem? WHAT IS IT!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??! AGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-23-2002, 02:54 PM	#15
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	You said you always have those codes. 94 & 44 are r & l side thermactor failure. you yanked it anyway, so those are to be expected. 67 is probably your clutch switch. Does it work properly? 34 means either your EGR valve isn't seated all the way, or there's a problem with the EVP sensor, which is what tells the ECM where the EGR is. The EGR should always be closed at WOT, but if it's inable to close completely, you would get a miss. I'd pull the EGR off and inspect it. Make sure it's clean, and that it seats properly. Also check the electrical connector for the EVP. Which codes are common? Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-23-2002, 03:10 PM	#16
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	well they're all pretty common... I always get the thermactor... I started getting the clutch one after the MAF conversion, and the egr one has been with me for a long time too, on and off, but it's never run like this before! __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

05-23-2002, 03:24 PM	#17
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	what do the plugs look like? Try forcing it again like in the video, but create a vacuum leak and tell me if it gets better/worse/stays the same Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-23-2002, 03:27 PM	#18
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Also, separate #5 & #6 farther apart. It looks like they're too close near the cap, and on the way to the plugs, too. __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-24-2002, 09:53 AM	#19
Hyper92GT slow like mud Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: toronto Posts: 180	I had a similar problem. Trying to show off when the car bogged and missed. It got worse and worse and was the fuel pump. Once I replaced it the car ran great. You might want to look at the fuel delivery if you have not already. Hope you find the problem. Mike __________________ 1992 DECH GT Not stock, still slow.