331,opinions and info - Page 2

06-03-2002, 11:55 PM

I bought my 331 from Keith Craft, it cost me just a tad over $2900. That was without a cam and chain but with a main support. If you don't already have the heads, I'd suggest making it real easy on yourself and order a long block.

I agree that the 351 would probably last longer too, meatier block. I thought about going that route myself. Decided the 302 based would be better for my needs and the 331 is a good combo, especially for a blower. I think the 331 would last a good long while(I hope). I have maybe 5k on it.

sn95gt19 · 06-04-2002, 01:56 AM

man am i kicking myself in the *** now, i built a 306 with all forged parts(all new)and the power is just not what i was hoping for. i should have built a 331. i know someone with a 351 in a 90lx and it moves pretty good(carbed)i would go with a 331 though and just get the pms, and tune it all. after all there is a lot of power in the tuning on fords. i ordered the pms 3 weeks ago and they said that it was on backorder for 2 weeks, and i still havent received it. once i get it and tune it in ill let you know how i like it.

302 LX Eric · 06-04-2002, 07:58 AM

In reference to the 28 or 50 oz balance, I was told by DSS, Coast High Perf., and another shop that 28 oz is the way to go with the 331.

Tom Nageal at DSS said that I could use my stock damper (50 oz), but that getting it to balance would take some serious drilling by the machine shop. So, in the interest of safety and with the future blower, I decided to go with the 28 oz Fluidampr.

The 331 also has a nice rod ratio - which, I think means better longevity by not loading the side walls as much as say a 347 would.

DemonGT - if you're thinking of going with a 351 based stroker, I hear the 377 w/blower combo works well

(a la Dan)

E

929PhoenixSquid · 06-04-2002, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1
probaby a 351. 331 strokers are supposed to be more reliable than 347 strokers, but i would have to assume a factory style 351 would be the longest lasting. but 302 strokers are just gaining more popularity now, so I guess theres not a lot out there with high mileage yet.

Thanx for the info, I'll keep that in mind on building my next motor.

Mach 1 · 06-04-2002, 12:16 PM

I heard the "rod ratio" on a 331 stroker was actually better than a 302. Is this true?

WADS56 · 06-04-2002, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1
I heard the "rod ratio" on a 331 stroker was actually better than a 302. Is this true?

I have heard that also from some serious engine builders. They also said that the 347 was even better yet. I agree with them... The 454, and 400sb rod ratio is worse then the 331, and 347 and they last for 150000+ miles.

DemonGT · 06-04-2002, 01:19 PM

im looken at keith crafts 357 short block right now

06-04-2002, 11:17 PM

DAMN!! I wish I had seen the posts in this one first before I posted in the other.

Guys, I did ALOT of research on the different 302 strokers before I bought what I have. Two years ago, when I bought mine, the 347 was the stroker to have but I found that the 331 was the perfect balance. I can't remember the sources(Paul's performance rings a bell) but I'm sure I could search through the 5 cases of mags in my closet to find some of the articles. They had different builders giving their take on the strokers and the 331 was only mentioned a couple times but it made my mind up. It does have a better stroke to rod ratio than the 302. Its a perfect engine for a blower, its a good engine period. It will last longer than a 347 but the 347 will give more power. I'm cheap(as some of you may know) so I wanted what would last, I plan on getting over 100k miles out of this engine. I think the 331 is what Ford should have built to start with... I'll see if i can find some of the articles that made my mind up(give me a few days to sort).

Mach 1 · 06-05-2002, 12:07 AM

Why is the 331 the perfect engine for a blower?

Any engine will benefit from forced induction if the set up is tuned properly.

What makes the 331 so special about a charger?

06-05-2002, 12:25 AM

It's the balance (less friction/resistance). I'll see if I can find the article on it for ya.

n20lx · 06-05-2002, 09:00 PM

sn95....
I picked up about 15 hp & found out I was shifting way to high after having the car tuned on the dyno with the pms. If you can get your car to AFM get Danny Biggs to tune it. Its worth it. It was a 3 hour drive & I had to rent a trailer but the car feels better at higher rpm. I dyno'd at about 308 rwhp with a set up simillar to yours with no tuning. Blew up the next time at the track so it might have been good for more. Ran 12.70's all day when it stayed together. Still ran 13.20 throwing two rods just past half track.

302eric.....
The guy I talked to at DSS almost killed me just for mentioning fluiddamper. They recommended any thing but. I use a Motorsport one but the front seal leaks like a sieve (changed seal didn't help). i think coast make a 28oz. that fits up just like stock (no spacer).

All chicago guys:
Where do you run? I'm usually at US41 (when I don't have a hole in the radiator like now).

302 LX Eric · 06-06-2002, 07:50 AM

n20LX - That's interesting about what DSS said. When I spoke to them (several occasions), I almost purchased the damper that they manufacture, but didn't since I had never heard anything about them (good or bad). And, since the DSS damper was $300 and the Fluidampr was $350, I figured I would stay with a name that I had heard of before. Plus the Fluidampr is hermetically sealed (welded) so it shouldn't leak and it's SFI SPEC 18.1 certified.

I hope I didn't make a mistake?

E

Mach 1 · 06-06-2002, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by n20lx
sn95....
302eric.....
The guy I talked to at DSS almost killed me just for mentioning fluiddamper. They recommended any thing but. .

Proof that not everbody knows what they are talking about. A guy once told me Fords suck...I guess he knew everything also?

06-06-2002, 10:00 PM

Also, I believe the 331 is a higher revving engine(higher rpms where a blower makes more power), the 347 has the torque down low. I've yet to start digging in the mags, I will though.

Something that struck me as funny... Keith Craft suggested I not go with a windage tray, I wanted one. They told me that the little extra hp it gave didn't justify the loss in block cooling. They said that the windage tray cut down on the oil splashing against the block and that the block needed that. I thought that was odd but I took their advice.

Mach 1 · 06-06-2002, 11:10 PM

The 331 should rev not as high as a 302. A stroker has more weight to spin, and a longer stroke...less free reving.

But if your comparing a 331 to a 347, sure, it should rev higher with less problems

302 LX Eric · 06-07-2002, 07:44 AM

rbatson - I'm surprised that KC would say that. I guess the way I look at it is that you gain power by keeping excessive oil away from the crank, but still allow enough to lubricate and cool. Additionally, with a high volume oil pump, it should be able to sufficently supply oil to the entire motor - even with a windage tray.

My engine builder suggested a windage tray based on his 18+ years of building high performance speed boat and race car motors. I'm going down to see him this weekend, I'll see what else I can learn about windage trays.

I'm also curious about where my new 331 will make its power (both HP & TQ). I'll be paying a visit to the same dyno that I used with my old 302 mill, so it should be interesting.

One thing that I learned from my last dyno session was that my HP dropped off much sooner than I thought. Peak HP of 289 RWHP came at 5300 and peak TQ of 312 RWTQ came at 4500. 90% of peak HP came from 4400 to 6000 and 90% of peak of TQ came from 3600 to 5300.

I'll let you know how it comes out.

E

n20lx · 06-07-2002, 11:06 PM

Mach 1:
What's your boggle? I was just passing along what I was told by DSS. Did anybody claim to be the supreme brain of motorsports?????? To paraphrse Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction "I don't remeber asking you a g. d. thing!" Just another thought that is in no way implieed to be true accurate or otherwise: If you use a lighter reciricating mass(like with aluminum rods), the 331 or 347 will rev just as high. Or you can simply move the same amount of air through increased displacement.

Mach 1 · 06-08-2002, 08:16 AM

Aluminum rods..yeah, you see a lot of those on street engines...

I just disagree with the guy at DSS and implied that because some guy at DSS told you something doesnt mean its true. You got a problem with that?

n20lx · 06-08-2002, 01:30 PM

I don't have problem with anybody's opinion. I don't like somebody being a jerk & taking a quote out to make me look like a fool because you don't agree wih me. I really don't care what anybody else runs. When the at DSS told be about broken cranks I changed my mind. About the aluminum rod thing, I didn't know we had limited the discussion to street engines. I don't consider my engine to be a street engine so my work is done here....

Mach 1 · 06-08-2002, 04:32 PM

I dont think thats what happened. Help is available, hang in there...

Later

06-04-2002, 01:56 AM	#22
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	man am i kicking myself in the *** now, i built a 306 with all forged parts(all new)and the power is just not what i was hoping for. i should have built a 331. i know someone with a 351 in a 90lx and it moves pretty good(carbed)i would go with a 331 though and just get the pms, and tune it all. after all there is a lot of power in the tuning on fords. i ordered the pms 3 weeks ago and they said that it was on backorder for 2 weeks, and i still havent received it. once i get it and tune it in ill let you know how i like it. __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

06-04-2002, 07:58 AM	#23
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	In reference to the 28 or 50 oz balance, I was told by DSS, Coast High Perf., and another shop that 28 oz is the way to go with the 331. Tom Nageal at DSS said that I could use my stock damper (50 oz), but that getting it to balance would take some serious drilling by the machine shop. So, in the interest of safety and with the future blower, I decided to go with the 28 oz Fluidampr. The 331 also has a nice rod ratio - which, I think means better longevity by not loading the side walls as much as say a 347 would. DemonGT - if you're thinking of going with a 351 based stroker, I hear the 377 w/blower combo works well (a la Dan) E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

06-04-2002, 12:16 PM	#25
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	I heard the "rod ratio" on a 331 stroker was actually better than a 302. Is this true? __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

06-04-2002, 01:19 PM	#27
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	im looken at keith crafts 357 short block right now __________________ '91 GT,410W,10.5 to 1 comp,Victor Jr. heads,Victor 5.8 intake,FTI cam,Crane retro fit lifters,Scorpian 1.6 RR's,Melling HV oil pump,MSD distro.,Canton oil pan,FMS flywheel,Romac balancer,FMS timing chain,Accufab 90mm TB,C&L 76mm maf, 42lbers,HD clutch,K&N air filter,Mac long tubes,Pro dumps,powerchamber,FMS 9mm wires,180 thermostat,Ford Racing gauges,5inch Tach,centerline convo pro's,nitto DR's,Pro3i lower control arms,50/50 shocks,3.55 gears,TFS HD diff. cover Next year: Tremec TKO,Spec stage 3 clutch,alum driveshaft,complete fuel system www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan

06-05-2002, 12:07 AM	#29
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Why is the 331 the perfect engine for a blower? Any engine will benefit from forced induction if the set up is tuned properly. What makes the 331 so special about a charger? __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

06-03-2002, 11:55 PM	#21
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	I bought my 331 from Keith Craft, it cost me just a tad over $2900. That was without a cam and chain but with a main support. If you don't already have the heads, I'd suggest making it real easy on yourself and order a long block. I agree that the 351 would probably last longer too, meatier block. I thought about going that route myself. Decided the 302 based would be better for my needs and the 331 is a good combo, especially for a blower. I think the 331 would last a good long while(I hope). I have maybe 5k on it.

06-04-2002, 11:17 PM	#28
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	DAMN!! I wish I had seen the posts in this one first before I posted in the other. Guys, I did ALOT of research on the different 302 strokers before I bought what I have. Two years ago, when I bought mine, the 347 was the stroker to have but I found that the 331 was the perfect balance. I can't remember the sources(Paul's performance rings a bell) but I'm sure I could search through the 5 cases of mags in my closet to find some of the articles. They had different builders giving their take on the strokers and the 331 was only mentioned a couple times but it made my mind up. It does have a better stroke to rod ratio than the 302. Its a perfect engine for a blower, its a good engine period. It will last longer than a 347 but the 347 will give more power. I'm cheap(as some of you may know) so I wanted what would last, I plan on getting over 100k miles out of this engine. I think the 331 is what Ford should have built to start with... I'll see if i can find some of the articles that made my mind up(give me a few days to sort).

06-05-2002, 12:25 AM	#30
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	It's the balance (less friction/resistance). I'll see if I can find the article on it for ya.

06-05-2002, 09:00 PM	#31
n20lx Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 495	sn95.... I picked up about 15 hp & found out I was shifting way to high after having the car tuned on the dyno with the pms. If you can get your car to AFM get Danny Biggs to tune it. Its worth it. It was a 3 hour drive & I had to rent a trailer but the car feels better at higher rpm. I dyno'd at about 308 rwhp with a set up simillar to yours with no tuning. Blew up the next time at the track so it might have been good for more. Ran 12.70's all day when it stayed together. Still ran 13.20 throwing two rods just past half track. 302eric..... The guy I talked to at DSS almost killed me just for mentioning fluiddamper. They recommended any thing but. I use a Motorsport one but the front seal leaks like a sieve (changed seal didn't help). i think coast make a 28oz. that fits up just like stock (no spacer). All chicago guys: Where do you run? I'm usually at US41 (when I don't have a hole in the radiator like now).

06-06-2002, 07:50 AM	#32
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	n20LX - That's interesting about what DSS said. When I spoke to them (several occasions), I almost purchased the damper that they manufacture, but didn't since I had never heard anything about them (good or bad). And, since the DSS damper was $300 and the Fluidampr was $350, I figured I would stay with a name that I had heard of before. Plus the Fluidampr is hermetically sealed (welded) so it shouldn't leak and it's SFI SPEC 18.1 certified. I hope I didn't make a mistake? E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

06-06-2002, 10:00 PM	#34
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	Also, I believe the 331 is a higher revving engine(higher rpms where a blower makes more power), the 347 has the torque down low. I've yet to start digging in the mags, I will though. Something that struck me as funny... Keith Craft suggested I not go with a windage tray, I wanted one. They told me that the little extra hp it gave didn't justify the loss in block cooling. They said that the windage tray cut down on the oil splashing against the block and that the block needed that. I thought that was odd but I took their advice.

06-06-2002, 11:10 PM	#35
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	The 331 should rev not as high as a 302. A stroker has more weight to spin, and a longer stroke...less free reving. But if your comparing a 331 to a 347, sure, it should rev higher with less problems __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

06-07-2002, 07:44 AM	#36
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	rbatson - I'm surprised that KC would say that. I guess the way I look at it is that you gain power by keeping excessive oil away from the crank, but still allow enough to lubricate and cool. Additionally, with a high volume oil pump, it should be able to sufficently supply oil to the entire motor - even with a windage tray. My engine builder suggested a windage tray based on his 18+ years of building high performance speed boat and race car motors. I'm going down to see him this weekend, I'll see what else I can learn about windage trays. I'm also curious about where my new 331 will make its power (both HP & TQ). I'll be paying a visit to the same dyno that I used with my old 302 mill, so it should be interesting. One thing that I learned from my last dyno session was that my HP dropped off much sooner than I thought. Peak HP of 289 RWHP came at 5300 and peak TQ of 312 RWTQ came at 4500. 90% of peak HP came from 4400 to 6000 and 90% of peak of TQ came from 3600 to 5300. I'll let you know how it comes out. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

06-07-2002, 11:06 PM	#37
n20lx Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 495	Mach 1: What's your boggle? I was just passing along what I was told by DSS. Did anybody claim to be the supreme brain of motorsports?????? To paraphrse Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction "I don't remeber asking you a g. d. thing!" Just another thought that is in no way implieed to be true accurate or otherwise: If you use a lighter reciricating mass(like with aluminum rods), the 331 or 347 will rev just as high. Or you can simply move the same amount of air through increased displacement.

06-08-2002, 08:16 AM	#38
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Aluminum rods..yeah, you see a lot of those on street engines... I just disagree with the guy at DSS and implied that because some guy at DSS told you something doesnt mean its true. You got a problem with that? __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

06-08-2002, 01:30 PM	#39
n20lx Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 495	I don't have problem with anybody's opinion. I don't like somebody being a jerk & taking a quote out to make me look like a fool because you don't agree wih me. I really don't care what anybody else runs. When the at DSS told be about broken cranks I changed my mind. About the aluminum rod thing, I didn't know we had limited the discussion to street engines. I don't consider my engine to be a street engine so my work is done here....

06-08-2002, 04:32 PM	#40
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	I dont think thats what happened. Help is available, hang in there... Later __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

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