Air Tank as turbo?

gizmo83 · 08-08-2002, 08:51 PM

could a pressurized air tank with a pressure regulator fed directly into the TB produce enough PSI to make a boast at WOT on a ford mustang 2.3L EFI? and what kinda of PSI would it need to produce?

jimberg · 08-08-2002, 09:13 PM

Not at all. The extra weight of the tank would just slow you down.

Agent_4573 · 08-08-2002, 10:01 PM

Very creative idea though.

gizmo83 · 08-08-2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg
Not at all. The extra weight of the tank would just slow you down.

i'm thinking of using a little 100psi tank, only weighs about 40 lbs. that wouldn't slow me down.

zepherman · 08-08-2002, 11:10 PM

Not a chance, there just wouldnt be enough flow. It doesn't matter what the psi in the bottle is, the volume of air coming out of the bottle woulnt be great enough.

srv1 · 08-08-2002, 11:30 PM

my question for you, Gizmo, if you want more ponies and you want a tank in your car, then why not the JUICE? why use compressed air while you can have the real deal? im a little confused, but creative thinking on that air tank!

gizmo83 · 08-09-2002, 12:02 AM

nos is definatelly the way to go. but im just tryin to be cheap and creative i guess lol.

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 12:19 AM

After doin a little research since my last post i have changed my mind. I think that it could put you into the high 12's. Go ahead with the install, just be shure to take some pictures and post them.

gizmo83 · 08-09-2002, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zepherman
After doin a little research since my last post i have changed my mind. I think that it could put you into the high 12's. Go ahead with the install, just be shure to take some pictures and post them.

Really?? what kinda of PSI would i need to set the regulator to? i wouldn't want to push to much and blow the motor or something.

PKRWUD · 08-09-2002, 01:47 AM

Try and remember, the only way you will ever create any boost is if you can force ALL the air into the engine faster than it is going in on it's own, which can only be done ONE WAY. By COMPRESSING the air. PERIOD. It's not about hooking up your windshield washer squirters and filling the tank with air, and having them plumbed into your TB, so that everytime you turn on your wipers, you'll get pinned in the seat. I admire your desire to beat the system, so I'm trying to help you. The only way it's going to happen is if you figure out a way of compressing ALL the air going in, and doing it by a means that requires less power than what it will ultimately yield.

Good luck.

Take care,
~Chris

gizmo83 · 08-09-2002, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
Try and remember, the only way you will ever create any boost is if you can force ALL the air into the engine faster than it is going in on it's own, which can only be done ONE WAY. By COMPRESSING the air. PERIOD. It's not about hooking up your windshield washer squirters and filling the tank with air, and having them plumbed into your TB, so that everytime you turn on your wipers, you'll get pinned in the seat. I admire your desire to beat the system, so I'm trying to help you. The only way it's going to happen is if you figure out a way of compressing ALL the air going in, and doing it by a means that requires less power than what it will ultimately yield.

Good luck.

Take care,
~Chris

ok thats understandable..... so where can i find out exactlly how many CFM of air my stock 2.3L pulls at WOT? so i know how much CFM i need to produce.

gizmo83 · 08-09-2002, 01:56 AM

also, i know at WOT a car isn't pulling the max CFM it can. so if i can feed it anymore CFM if would do something. commpressed or not. right?

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 02:02 AM

When i said i had chaged my mind i was only joking. PKRWUD wasn't trying to help you do it, he was trying to help you see that it its not possible. Like someone else already said, if your looking for power in a bottle, you might want to look at nitrous. A simple dry kit is practicle and relatively inexpensive way to boost your HP when compared to other types of power adders.

PKRWUD · 08-09-2002, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gizmo83
also, i know at WOT a car isn't pulling the max CFM it can. so if i can feed it anymore CFM if would do something. commpressed or not. right?

zepherman is both right and wrong. I am trying to help you, but you need to see that it's just not possible with Home Depot as your supply house.

Figure a 2300 in great shape will pull 300cfm at WOT. Maybe 325cfm. And no, IT HAS TO BE COMPRESSED.

Let me try this yet another way. Let's pretend that the engine is a coffee can. At WOT, that coffee can is able to hold 1 gallon of air. You can blow an industrial leaf blower at it, but it's never going to hold more than 1 gallon of air. UNLESS, you compress the air going in. The only physical way you can fit more air into a given area is to compress it. Kinda like a Scuba tank. If it help regular air, you'd use it up in less than 2 minutes, but by compressing the air before it goes into the tank, they are able to fit a lot more air in there. If you sat the Scuba tank in front of an attic fan, it still wouldn't hold any more air than it would sitting in a closet, because the attic fan just pushes the air, it doesn't compress it.

That is the thing you really need to pound into your head: blowing/pushing air don't do dick. It MUST BE COMPRESSED. PERIOD. NON NEGOTIABLE FACT. Boost is ONLY CREATED WHEN THERE IS MORE AIR IN A GIVEN AREA THAN ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE WILL ALLOW, and that is only possible by compressing the air before it goes in.

Now, with that said, good luck.

Take care,
~Chris

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 02:59 AM

ok, lt me try to expain it. The motor draws in air when one of the pistons in your motor starts its intake stroke the piston moves dowm in the bore and creates space in the cylinder that is filled with air. The force that makes the air fill the cylinder is atmospheric pressure. at the end of the intake stroke the intake valve shuts and traps the air in the cylinder. then the piston starts back up the cylinder on the compression stroke. at the end of the compression stroke all of the air i the cylinder has been compressed to around 9 times the atmospheric pressure(in a 9:1 compression motor). when the spark ignites the air/fuel mixture that is compressed in the top of the cylinder the piston is forced down by the explosion, which is what drives the motor. Now, if the compression stroke of the motor compresses all the air thats in the cylinder to a pressure 9 times what it was before, what if the air in the cylinder is already at a pressure many times greater than the atmospheric pressure when the compression stroke starts. Ill tell you what, you get a bigger boom on the power stroke. thats what a turbo/supercharger does, it makes the air pressure in the cylinder many times greater than it would normally be at the beginning of the compression stroke. you cant just make it easier for the motor to draw in air, you actually have to compress air into the cylinder before you will get any results. you simply cant put enoug air into a tank to do that.

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 03:02 AM

oops, looks like PKRWUD beat me to it.

PKRWUD · 08-09-2002, 03:26 AM

LOL. Right on, Z-man.

Okay, now that he and I have made it complicated, I will once again make it as simple as pie. There is only one effect that blowers and turbos have on an engine, and one effect only. They increase the engines displacement. Period. They don't turn the mix into some super stratospheric explosive mixture, they simply increase the displacement. A blown 302, at sea level, at 14.7 pounds of boost, produces EXACTLY the same power as that same engine had it been bored out to a 604. No more, no less.

Take care,
~Chris

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 03:34 AM

Hey PKRWUD, somebody is really gunna laugh when they check out the time that these last 3 or 4 posts were made.

gizmo83 · 08-09-2002, 03:34 AM

ok thanks guys. i get it... i understand all that now. so that being said, (probably a dumb question). but i know you can turn an AC compressor into an air compressor. ran straight to the TB like a turbo, could that produce enough compression? (i know i shouldn't have asked.... if it where that easy turbos wouldn't cost so much lol).

zepherman · 08-09-2002, 03:38 AM

.............................................AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH!

No offense, but gizmo must enjoy working on Honda Civics on the side.

08-08-2002, 08:51 PM	#1
gizmo83 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 62	Air Tank as turbo? could a pressurized air tank with a pressure regulator fed directly into the TB produce enough PSI to make a boast at WOT on a ford mustang 2.3L EFI? and what kinda of PSI would it need to produce?

08-08-2002, 09:13 PM	#2
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Not at all. The extra weight of the tank would just slow you down. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-08-2002, 10:01 PM	#3
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	Very creative idea though. __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

08-08-2002, 11:10 PM	#5
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	Not a chance, there just wouldnt be enough flow. It doesn't matter what the psi in the bottle is, the volume of air coming out of the bottle woulnt be great enough. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-08-2002, 11:30 PM	#6
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	my question for you, Gizmo, if you want more ponies and you want a tank in your car, then why not the JUICE? why use compressed air while you can have the real deal? im a little confused, but creative thinking on that air tank! __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

08-09-2002, 12:02 AM	#7
gizmo83 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 62	nos is definatelly the way to go. but im just tryin to be cheap and creative i guess lol.

08-09-2002, 12:19 AM	#8
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	After doin a little research since my last post i have changed my mind. I think that it could put you into the high 12's. Go ahead with the install, just be shure to take some pictures and post them. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-09-2002, 01:47 AM	#10
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Try and remember, the only way you will ever create any boost is if you can force ALL the air into the engine faster than it is going in on it's own, which can only be done ONE WAY. By COMPRESSING the air. PERIOD. It's not about hooking up your windshield washer squirters and filling the tank with air, and having them plumbed into your TB, so that everytime you turn on your wipers, you'll get pinned in the seat. I admire your desire to beat the system, so I'm trying to help you. The only way it's going to happen is if you figure out a way of compressing ALL the air going in, and doing it by a means that requires less power than what it will ultimately yield. Good luck. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-09-2002, 01:56 AM	#12
gizmo83 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 62	also, i know at WOT a car isn't pulling the max CFM it can. so if i can feed it anymore CFM if would do something. commpressed or not. right?

08-09-2002, 02:02 AM	#13
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	When i said i had chaged my mind i was only joking. PKRWUD wasn't trying to help you do it, he was trying to help you see that it its not possible. Like someone else already said, if your looking for power in a bottle, you might want to look at nitrous. A simple dry kit is practicle and relatively inexpensive way to boost your HP when compared to other types of power adders. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-09-2002, 02:59 AM	#15
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	ok, lt me try to expain it. The motor draws in air when one of the pistons in your motor starts its intake stroke the piston moves dowm in the bore and creates space in the cylinder that is filled with air. The force that makes the air fill the cylinder is atmospheric pressure. at the end of the intake stroke the intake valve shuts and traps the air in the cylinder. then the piston starts back up the cylinder on the compression stroke. at the end of the compression stroke all of the air i the cylinder has been compressed to around 9 times the atmospheric pressure(in a 9:1 compression motor). when the spark ignites the air/fuel mixture that is compressed in the top of the cylinder the piston is forced down by the explosion, which is what drives the motor. Now, if the compression stroke of the motor compresses all the air thats in the cylinder to a pressure 9 times what it was before, what if the air in the cylinder is already at a pressure many times greater than the atmospheric pressure when the compression stroke starts. Ill tell you what, you get a bigger boom on the power stroke. thats what a turbo/supercharger does, it makes the air pressure in the cylinder many times greater than it would normally be at the beginning of the compression stroke. you cant just make it easier for the motor to draw in air, you actually have to compress air into the cylinder before you will get any results. you simply cant put enoug air into a tank to do that. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-09-2002, 03:02 AM	#16
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	oops, looks like PKRWUD beat me to it. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-09-2002, 03:26 AM	#17
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	LOL. Right on, Z-man. Okay, now that he and I have made it complicated, I will once again make it as simple as pie. There is only one effect that blowers and turbos have on an engine, and one effect only. They increase the engines displacement. Period. They don't turn the mix into some super stratospheric explosive mixture, they simply increase the displacement. A blown 302, at sea level, at 14.7 pounds of boost, produces EXACTLY the same power as that same engine had it been bored out to a 604. No more, no less. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-09-2002, 03:34 AM	#18
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	Hey PKRWUD, somebody is really gunna laugh when they check out the time that these last 3 or 4 posts were made. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

08-09-2002, 03:38 AM	#20
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	.............................................AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH! No offense, but gizmo must enjoy working on Honda Civics on the side. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

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