Air Tank as turbo? - Page 3

Mach 1 · 08-12-2002, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gizmo83
lol yeah i actually tired it... you can either give me props for effort of hate on me for bein' stupid. as for pictures, i never got a chance to take any. although it was quite funny... try craming a 40 gal. air tank into the passenger seat of an 87' mustang. lol

Well, well just say your learning things the hard way, but at least your giving it a shot, which deserves some credit. Try working on your theory though, will save you some headaches down the road...

On second thought, good thing you didnt take pictures, because everybody would have laughed at you

HotRoddin · 08-12-2002, 09:54 PM

Ok .. my two cents worth. Instead of running your air tank into the TB ... strap several of them on your car ... say 4 on each each side. Yeah thats it ... 8 large air cylinders each with about 2,200 psi in them. Then rig a gizmo that knocks all the valves off the air bottles at the same time !! Three things to remember
1. make sure you're on a long straight road
2. make sure you bring a clean pair of shorts to change in to
3. Before hitting the switch, repeat these words " I'm going to Outer Space and i'm not coming back ! "
I'm joking, please don't try it

HotRoddin · 08-12-2002, 10:02 PM

Ok .. my two cents worth. Instead of running your air tank into the TB ... strap several of them on your car ... say 4 on each each side. Yeah thats it ... 8 large air cylinders each with about 2,200 psi in them. Then rig a gizmo that knocks all the valves off the air bottles at the same time !! Three things to remember
1. make sure you're on a long straight road
2. make sure you bring a clean pair of shorts to change in to
3. Before hitting the switch, repeat these words " I'm going to Outer Space and i'm not coming back ! "
I'm joking, please don't try it

srv1 · 08-12-2002, 10:03 PM

question for all of you. would Giszmo's idea work on a 2 stroke? i mean piston speed is much faster, therefore it has to work harder at lower rpm's to produce the power it would at higher rpm's were the 2 strokes "power band" kicks in. could it help low end power for the 2 stroke? i assume a 2 stroke 2cylinder doesnt pull as much vacuum(cfm?) as would a 4 stroke 2 cyl.

another thing i didnt see anyone mention. why not freeze the air tank? that would make the oxygen molecules closer together and you probably could compress more air in the tank when it is frozen. it would cool off the air also that you just put into it. after you refilled it again, let it freeze or get really cold. then try it on the car. putting the ice cold air into the intake track would cool off some of the air that is already entering the intake. now i know if you put, lets say 50lbs of air in the tank and then you freeze it or get it really cold, the pressure will drop. that is why you will add more. say it is 50lbs at 70 degrees F when you put into the tank which yet has to be cooled. you put the tank in the freezer at 10 degrees F and lets say it drops it to 35lbs in the tank. put more in again as much as you can fit. cool it again. say you put a total of 75lbs in. let that cool. after it cools, it drops to 50lbs. take that tank and hook it up to your car. the outside air should warm the tank just enough to build the pressure in the tank higher but still would be colder than the air going in the intake at 70 degrees. wouldnt that "cool" the air that would be coming into the intake? wouldnt that much a small "charge" so to say? i dont know the expansion and contraction rates of ambient air, but i was just giving an example. just my .02 cents..

srv1 · 08-12-2002, 10:05 PM

HotRoddin, cool avatar

HotRoddin · 08-12-2002, 10:29 PM

Sorry about the double post ... looks like my submit button finger got itchy again

Oh and thanks SRV1

gizmo83 · 08-12-2002, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by srv1
question for all of you. would Giszmo's idea work on a 2 stroke? i mean piston speed is much faster, therefore it has to work harder at lower rpm's to produce the power it would at higher rpm's were the 2 strokes "power band" kicks in. could it help low end power for the 2 stroke? i assume a 2 stroke 2cylinder doesnt pull as much vacuum(cfm?) as would a 4 stroke 2 cyl.

another thing i didnt see anyone mention. why not freeze the air tank? that would make the oxygen molecules closer together and you probably could compress more air in the tank when it is frozen. it would cool off the air also that you just put into it. after you refilled it again, let it freeze or get really cold. then try it on the car. putting the ice cold air into the intake track would cool off some of the air that is already entering the intake. now i know if you put, lets say 50lbs of air in the tank and then you freeze it or get it really cold, the pressure will drop. that is why you will add more. say it is 50lbs at 70 degrees F when you put into the tank which yet has to be cooled. you put the tank in the freezer at 10 degrees F and lets say it drops it to 35lbs in the tank. put more in again as much as you can fit. cool it again. say you put a total of 75lbs in. let that cool. after it cools, it drops to 50lbs. take that tank and hook it up to your car. the outside air should warm the tank just enough to build the pressure in the tank higher but still would be colder than the air going in the intake at 70 degrees. wouldnt that "cool" the air that would be coming into the intake? wouldnt that much a small "charge" so to say? i dont know the expansion and contraction rates of ambient air, but i was just giving an example. just my .02 cents..

never thought of that... very creative idea... but. couldn't that be very dangerousto freeze, add air, freeze, add air, ect ect.. cuz yeah theres only 50 lbs of frozen air once your done but if the tank warms up to much befor you use it, the presure incresses and could explode the tank. correct?

srv1 · 08-12-2002, 11:27 PM

Gizmo, you would already have everything ready to roll. just hood the tank up if you know what i mean. it wouldnt heat up that much unless you left it in your car or left it in the sun. that is why i said 75lbs of air. by the time it warms up, i cant see it getting over 120 which most small tanks can handle no problem. but yeah, if you put too much in it can. try it if you have a big freezer or access to a walkin freezer.

gizmo83 · 08-13-2002, 01:30 AM

also, wouldn't the air expland in the TB befor it even reaches the pistons becuz the TB is warm?

Mach 1 · 08-13-2002, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by srv1
question for all of you. would Giszmo's idea work on a 2 stroke?

Maybe on your 25CC weed eater engine. The idea is not feasible and should be put to rest, for all the reasons stated previously.

later

95mustanggt · 08-13-2002, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach 1

Maybe on your 25CC weed eater engine. The idea is not feasible and should be put to rest, for all the reasons stated previously.

later

MACH 1 is correct. Abandon this idea guys. There are litteraly thousands of engineers working on stuff like this, if it was possible it would already have been done.

Just look for the fake plastic bottle and kit at the Honda store

Hozer 88GTConv · 08-13-2002, 07:20 AM

drop in a 6000 Shaft Horsepower Allison T56 Turboshaft Engine and then...
seriously though, these pages have been the funniest I have read in a while guys. Thanks for the laughs.

Agent_4573 · 08-13-2002, 10:53 AM

I was reading the post about freezing the tank someone is sorely mistaken. Maybe you meant psi instead of lbs. If you put 70 lbs of air in a tank and then drop temp of the tank 50 degrees, there is still 70 lbs of air in the tank, the weight won't change at all. What will change is the psi on the tank. I'm going to give an example using the equation pv=nrt. where p=pressure, v=volume, n=number of moles of gas, r= universal gas constant=~.083, t=tempeture in kelvin=celcuis temp+273.

Were going to use the metric system too because it makes stuff so much easier.

So we start with a tank that holds 100 liters of air at STP(0 degrees celcius, 1 atm) according to pv=nrt; 1atm*100liters=n*.083*273. Therefore there are 4.41 moles of air. If we don't add any more air, there will always be 4.41 moles of air in the tank. We now drop the tempeture 100 degrees celcius and look for the new pressure on the tank.
pv=nrt p*100liters=4.41*.083*173, the new pressure on the tank is only .633 atm. Therefore you can put more cold air in at a lower tempeture. But the reason i wrote all this is to say that the number of moles, which is directly proportional to weight, doesn't change when you drop the tempeture. The only thing that will effect the poundage of the air tank is the volume of air you put in it. Cooling the tank only allows you to put more air in at a lower pressure.

PKRWUD · 08-13-2002, 11:16 AM

I think you misunderstood him. I am 99.9% sure he was referring to pressure, not weight. Pressure is measured in pounds as well. (PSI)

Take care,
~Chris

Agent_4573 · 08-13-2002, 11:43 AM

I kinda thought so, but i mean there is a huge difference between pounds (lbs) and pounds per square inch(psi)

jimberg · 08-13-2002, 12:32 PM

The way I read it was that the tank has a certain pressure limit and that by lowering the temperature you could fit more air in as measured by weight within the pressure limits.

The problem with that is that the tank could burst if you couldn't control the temperature precisely enough.

srv1 · 08-13-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I think you misunderstood him. I am 99.9% sure he was referring to pressure, not weight. Pressure is measured in pounds as well. (PSI)

Take care,
~Chris

Agent, what he said.

chatcher · 08-13-2002, 07:02 PM

if anyone here is interested i have a 1&1/2 hp portable compressor bolted to a ram air hood with a 1/4 mile long extension cord its good for at least a tenth

lol

PKRWUD · 08-13-2002, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chatcher
if anyone here is interested i have a 1&1/2 hp portable compressor bolted to a ram air hood with a 1/4 mile long extension cord its good for at least a tenth

lol

REALLY???? How much????

Take care,
~Chris

geno5.0 · 08-14-2002, 09:43 AM

This Idea can work!! But it is not worth it.
If you had a tank that was large enough to hold all the air that your motor was going to use and it was sealed to the intake much like a blower. with a regulator to regulate pressure it would work.

But the problem is you would need a tank that is about the size of your Car for one pass down the track with some serious Psi in it . IE: waste of time .

I got an Idea just get a peice o flexable Tube 3 inches around and 1320' long hook it to your intake and hook it to a huge tank on the starting line with 200psi in it YAH! BABY now thats boost.LOLOLOLOL

08-12-2002, 10:03 PM	#44
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	would these work? question for all of you. would Giszmo's idea work on a 2 stroke? i mean piston speed is much faster, therefore it has to work harder at lower rpm's to produce the power it would at higher rpm's were the 2 strokes "power band" kicks in. could it help low end power for the 2 stroke? i assume a 2 stroke 2cylinder doesnt pull as much vacuum(cfm?) as would a 4 stroke 2 cyl. another thing i didnt see anyone mention. why not freeze the air tank? that would make the oxygen molecules closer together and you probably could compress more air in the tank when it is frozen. it would cool off the air also that you just put into it. after you refilled it again, let it freeze or get really cold. then try it on the car. putting the ice cold air into the intake track would cool off some of the air that is already entering the intake. now i know if you put, lets say 50lbs of air in the tank and then you freeze it or get it really cold, the pressure will drop. that is why you will add more. say it is 50lbs at 70 degrees F when you put into the tank which yet has to be cooled. you put the tank in the freezer at 10 degrees F and lets say it drops it to 35lbs in the tank. put more in again as much as you can fit. cool it again. say you put a total of 75lbs in. let that cool. after it cools, it drops to 50lbs. take that tank and hook it up to your car. the outside air should warm the tank just enough to build the pressure in the tank higher but still would be colder than the air going in the intake at 70 degrees. wouldnt that "cool" the air that would be coming into the intake? wouldnt that much a small "charge" so to say? i dont know the expansion and contraction rates of ambient air, but i was just giving an example. just my .02 cents..

08-12-2002, 10:05 PM	#45
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	just wanted to say.... HotRoddin, cool avatar

08-13-2002, 07:20 AM	#52
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Well, why don't you just... drop in a 6000 Shaft Horsepower Allison T56 Turboshaft Engine and then... seriously though, these pages have been the funniest I have read in a while guys. Thanks for the laughs. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

08-13-2002, 10:53 AM	#53
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	Someone didn't pay attention in chemistry I was reading the post about freezing the tank someone is sorely mistaken. Maybe you meant psi instead of lbs. If you put 70 lbs of air in a tank and then drop temp of the tank 50 degrees, there is still 70 lbs of air in the tank, the weight won't change at all. What will change is the psi on the tank. I'm going to give an example using the equation pv=nrt. where p=pressure, v=volume, n=number of moles of gas, r= universal gas constant=~.083, t=tempeture in kelvin=celcuis temp+273. Were going to use the metric system too because it makes stuff so much easier. So we start with a tank that holds 100 liters of air at STP(0 degrees celcius, 1 atm) according to pv=nrt; 1atm100liters=n.083273. Therefore there are 4.41 moles of air. If we don't add any more air, there will always be 4.41 moles of air in the tank. We now drop the tempeture 100 degrees celcius and look for the new pressure on the tank. pv=nrt p100liters=4.41.083173, the new pressure on the tank is only .633 atm. Therefore you can put more cold air in at a lower tempeture. But the reason i wrote all this is to say that the number of moles, which is directly proportional to weight, doesn't change when you drop the tempeture. The only thing that will effect the poundage of the air tank is the volume of air you put in it. Cooling the tank only allows you to put more air in at a lower pressure. __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

08-13-2002, 11:16 AM	#54
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I think you misunderstood him. I am 99.9% sure he was referring to pressure, not weight. Pressure is measured in pounds as well. (PSI) Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-12-2002, 09:54 PM	#42
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Ok .. my two cents worth. Instead of running your air tank into the TB ... strap several of them on your car ... say 4 on each each side. Yeah thats it ... 8 large air cylinders each with about 2,200 psi in them. Then rig a gizmo that knocks all the valves off the air bottles at the same time !! Three things to remember 1. make sure you're on a long straight road 2. make sure you bring a clean pair of shorts to change in to 3. Before hitting the switch, repeat these words " I'm going to Outer Space and i'm not coming back ! " I'm joking, please don't try it

08-12-2002, 10:02 PM	#43
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Ok .. my two cents worth. Instead of running your air tank into the TB ... strap several of them on your car ... say 4 on each each side. Yeah thats it ... 8 large air cylinders each with about 2,200 psi in them. Then rig a gizmo that knocks all the valves off the air bottles at the same time !! Three things to remember 1. make sure you're on a long straight road 2. make sure you bring a clean pair of shorts to change in to 3. Before hitting the switch, repeat these words " I'm going to Outer Space and i'm not coming back ! " I'm joking, please don't try it

08-12-2002, 10:29 PM	#46
HotRoddin cranky old man Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 683	Sorry about the double post ... looks like my submit button finger got itchy again Oh and thanks SRV1

08-12-2002, 11:27 PM	#48
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	Gizmo, you would already have everything ready to roll. just hood the tank up if you know what i mean. it wouldnt heat up that much unless you left it in your car or left it in the sun. that is why i said 75lbs of air. by the time it warms up, i cant see it getting over 120 which most small tanks can handle no problem. but yeah, if you put too much in it can. try it if you have a big freezer or access to a walkin freezer.

08-13-2002, 01:30 AM	#49
gizmo83 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 62	also, wouldn't the air expland in the TB befor it even reaches the pistons becuz the TB is warm?

08-13-2002, 11:43 AM	#55
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	I kinda thought so, but i mean there is a huge difference between pounds (lbs) and pounds per square inch(psi) __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

08-13-2002, 12:32 PM	#56
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	The way I read it was that the tank has a certain pressure limit and that by lowering the temperature you could fit more air in as measured by weight within the pressure limits. The problem with that is that the tank could burst if you couldn't control the temperature precisely enough. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-13-2002, 07:02 PM	#58
chatcher Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: butler pa Posts: 303	if anyone here is interested i have a 1&1/2 hp portable compressor bolted to a ram air hood with a 1/4 mile long extension cord its good for at least a tenth lol __________________ 92lx wannabe saleen

08-14-2002, 09:43 AM	#60
geno5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Omaha Posts: 124	This Idea can work!! But it is not worth it. If you had a tank that was large enough to hold all the air that your motor was going to use and it was sealed to the intake much like a blower. with a regulator to regulate pressure it would work. But the problem is you would need a tank that is about the size of your Car for one pass down the track with some serious Psi in it . IE: waste of time . I got an Idea just get a peice o flexable Tube 3 inches around and 1320' long hook it to your intake and hook it to a huge tank on the starting line with 200psi in it YAH! BABY now thats boost.LOLOLOLOL __________________ Mods:Svo Alu Y Heads,1.72roller rockers,Cam,Cobra Upper&lower,bbkEqu hedders,Offroad H,FlowmasterMuffs,BBk70mm Tb,and73mmMAF,UnderDrive Pulleys,24lb Svo Inj,Kirban AFPR,190lph Walbro,Griffin Alu Rad,Crane Coil,Batt Relocated to trunk,K/Ncone,smog pump removed,Built Aod,DSSL,3.73gears,Alu flywheel,2800stall,NOS 5115 100shot, Iknow I forgot something Best on motor13.66@102.55 2.14 60' Best on spray13.20@108.98(2.69 60') I Bet mid to low 12 if I can Hook! All runs on street tires

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