this is it someone better help or i am selling this car

[jim_howard_pdx]

A stock 302 running 11.12 ets.....

Common, a stock 302 runs 15.4 ets.
A Cobra 302 runs 14.8 after super tuning.
A Cobra 4.6 runs 14.4 after super tuning.

Add slicks, pick up a few tenths.

BS is BS and power is power. The 351 W is the same engine as a 302. It is simple .995 inches taller. So the intake is a little wider? So what.

If your 302 runs 12 seconds flat, run the same configuration in a 351 windsor and you will be running 11.30's.

Now just what was STOCK about that 11.12 engine??????

The super stock world record was held for 17 years by a 428 Cobra Jet Mustang which ran 11.3 seconds. You think a stock 302 can run with a stock 428 CJ?

Man I have heard it all, but this is too thick.

I am glad you figured out the electronics issue and the vacume leak. Let us know how you RUN!

[fiveohpatrol]

no one ever said a stock 302 will run 11.12 ets. But I did say that a 302 BLOCK with a mild heads/intake/cam combo will go that fast.

[drtbiker]

GUESS WHAT GUYS! I found out that the o/w wire was broken right before it goes into the egr valve did not get to fix it yet because i have to go to work but i'll fill u guys in tonight when i have time to fix it.

thanks alot for ur time and patiance with me, god do i feel stupid to cause this much chaos with this little of a wire

later guys thanks again

raini

[jim_howard_pdx]

I have been wrenching engines since I was 15 years old. I have wrenched on 4 cars that ran late 8's and early 9's.

Do you know what it takes to run 11 second quarter miles? Do you understand the concept of vehicle weight, parasitic power loss from the transmission, drive shaft, and rear end. Do you understand pinion angles, weight transfer, and hook up.

An 11 second car requires that EVERY engine part be properly matched, every reciprocating engine part must be properly machined, balanced, and blue printed. An oil scrapper or windage tray is nearly MANDATORY. Low friction bearings, rings, and valve train are nearly MANDATORY.

Look, I have guys coming to me with 13 and 14 second cars saying how much will it cost to modify the car to run 11's.

Do you know what it takes? Probably 12 months of chassis and drive train modifications, 4-6 thousand dollars of machining and parts, plus access to some knowledgeable engine tuners who know every little trick to help it happen.

Yes you can bolt in 500 to 800 hp in a STOCK car and probably run an 11 second time. But the clutch will fail, or the auto or manual transmission will fail, or the driveshaft will become a big heavy pretzel, or the rear end will get real noisy or stop operating at all.

I have built 426 Hemi strokers, 429 strokers, 428 strokers, 351 windsor and clevelands, 302's and 289's, and even chevy engines.

Right now I can tell you that almost any track will make you put in a 4 point roll bar, electric cut off switch, wear a helmet, use 5 point restraints, and run a driveshaft loop, chain the engine or run solid motor mounts, and have automatic cut off for the electric fuel pump. SO WHAT IS STOCK ABOUT RUNNING AN 11 Second ET.

And where do you get off saying minor head work, minor mods..... It takes 475 hp or above to even hit an 11 second quarter mile in a 2900 lb car with slicks. A 302 makes around 275 to 315 hp stock. So adding 160 hp takes some SERIOUS modifications, and some serious safety equipment.

Want to run 11 seconds stock. Buy a Turbo Porsche. I think they go for about 140,000.00 dollars. Maybe a new Shelby but they go for 150,000 with the ultra cool aluminum 427. Maybe a Viper but they go for 65,000 and up. A super charged Steeda or Saleen with 5.4 liter engines will set you back 48-55k. They will get you 11's or close to it. GET THE PICTURE!!!! Are any of these cars really STOCK at all? I don't think so.....

So my buddy is running a 1990 Civic Hatchback. He got a Japanese R model 1.8 liter engine from an Integra, runs the ultra steep 5 speed transmission with a good clutch, posi unit, headers, special intake, a nice cold air intake, and a chip set. Everything all together cost him less than 6,000 dollars. He corners at over 1.G on the skid pad. He quarters in 12.4 seconds without nitrous or blowers, and he gets over 28 miles per gallon driving too and from the track.

Show me any 302 that will match that performance? Show me any 351 or 4.6 or 5.4 liter car?

We need to go to FORD and demand a platform and a solid engine program to get into this type of performance.

With a vortec blower and nitrous assist my buddies Integra motor would be easily in the 11's and 10's would require only a couple of thousand in chassis modifications to get the front wheel drive to hold the power and the full cage for running 10's at a strip. When I drive his car and shift at 10,000 RPM the thrill is addictive. The only Ford engine I ever worked on that could do this was a FORD SOHC 427 running over 650 HP. We were running cams designed for 9,000 + RPM. That car ran 9.2's in a Factory Ford racing Fairlane. A 351 stroked to 427 in a modern chassis can run solid 8 second quarters today. A 3.6 liter Honda engine will be doing this next year.

This has got to stop. FORD must put some money and time into high rev, low displacement race engines. I am getting sick of the rice rockets looking over and even thinking they can take my Mustang. But until I have a 3.8 Liter engine capable of 600 HP and 10,000 RPM I will just be wondering if I can stay up with them.

[BilLster]

quote
PKRWUD This thread is turning really stupid.

You have one and only one issue to deal with right now, and that is the TPS

jim_howard_pdx I have been wrenching engines since I was 15 years old. I have wrenched on 4 cars that ran late 8's and early 9's.

Do you know what it takes to run 11 second quarter miles? Do you understand the concept of vehicle weight, parasitic power loss from the transmission, drive shaft, and rear end. Do you understand pinion angles, weight transfer, and hook up.

So my buddy is running a 1990 Civic Hatchback. He got a Japanese R model 1.8 liter engine from an Integra, runs the ultra steep 5 speed transmission with a good clutch, posi unit, headers, special intake, a nice cold air intake, and a chip set. Everything all together cost him less than 6,000 dollars. He corners at over 1.G on the skid pad. He quarters in 12.4 seconds without nitrous or blowers, and he gets over 28 miles per gallon driving too and from the track.

Show me any 302 that will match that performance? Show me any 351 or 4.6 or 5.4 liter car?

Want to run 11 seconds stock. Buy a Turbo Porsche

well fisrt off finish with the wiring.

second off come look at me up in calgary with your buddies honda ???

third my Brothers turbo porshe doesnt run 11's

oh yeah and the cj only held its CLASS record

Also my bike runs 11 stock get over 28 mpg and cost less than the civic .

ps look up arcives on ford hi rpm engines any good racer knows thats not the way to go. or we would all be dropping in f1 engines

and no only high rpm engines need all that stuff you can build a junk yard ford engine that will run 11 .

stock 351 and twin turbo's no hight tech stuff .

e-mail me for the build up. 400 put me into the 11's

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
I have been wrenching engines since I was 15 years old. I have wrenched on 4 cars that ran late 8's and early 9's.

Do you know what it takes to run 11 second quarter miles? Do you understand the concept of vehicle weight, parasitic power loss from the transmission, drive shaft, and rear end. Do you understand pinion angles, weight transfer, and hook up.

An 11 second car requires that EVERY engine part be properly matched, every reciprocating engine part must be properly machined, balanced, and blue printed. An oil scrapper or windage tray is nearly MANDATORY. Low friction bearings, rings, and valve train are nearly MANDATORY.

Look, I have guys coming to me with 13 and 14 second cars saying how much will it cost to modify the car to run 11's.

Do you know what it takes? Probably 12 months of chassis and drive train modifications, 4-6 thousand dollars of machining and parts, plus access to some knowledgeable engine tuners who know every little trick to help it happen.

Yes you can bolt in 500 to 800 hp in a STOCK car and probably run an 11 second time. But the clutch will fail, or the auto or manual transmission will fail, or the driveshaft will become a big heavy pretzel, or the rear end will get real noisy or stop operating at all.

I have built 426 Hemi strokers, 429 strokers, 428 strokers, 351 windsor and clevelands, 302's and 289's, and even chevy engines.

Right now I can tell you that almost any track will make you put in a 4 point roll bar, electric cut off switch, wear a helmet, use 5 point restraints, and run a driveshaft loop, chain the engine or run solid motor mounts, and have automatic cut off for the electric fuel pump. SO WHAT IS STOCK ABOUT RUNNING AN 11 Second ET.

And where do you get off saying minor head work, minor mods..... It takes 475 hp or above to even hit an 11 second quarter mile in a 2900 lb car with slicks. A 302 makes around 275 to 315 hp stock. So adding 160 hp takes some SERIOUS modifications, and some serious safety equipment.

Want to run 11 seconds stock. Buy a Turbo Porsche. I think they go for about 140,000.00 dollars. Maybe a new Shelby but they go for 150,000 with the ultra cool aluminum 427. Maybe a Viper but they go for 65,000 and up. A super charged Steeda or Saleen with 5.4 liter engines will set you back 48-55k. They will get you 11's or close to it. GET THE PICTURE!!!! Are any of these cars really STOCK at all? I don't think so.....

So my buddy is running a 1990 Civic Hatchback. He got a Japanese R model 1.8 liter engine from an Integra, runs the ultra steep 5 speed transmission with a good clutch, posi unit, headers, special intake, a nice cold air intake, and a chip set. Everything all together cost him less than 6,000 dollars. He corners at over 1.G on the skid pad. He quarters in 12.4 seconds without nitrous or blowers, and he gets over 28 miles per gallon driving too and from the track.

Show me any 302 that will match that performance? Show me any 351 or 4.6 or 5.4 liter car?

We need to go to FORD and demand a platform and a solid engine program to get into this type of performance.

With a vortec blower and nitrous assist my buddies Integra motor would be easily in the 11's and 10's would require only a couple of thousand in chassis modifications to get the front wheel drive to hold the power and the full cage for running 10's at a strip. When I drive his car and shift at 10,000 RPM the thrill is addictive. The only Ford engine I ever worked on that could do this was a FORD SOHC 427 running over 650 HP. We were running cams designed for 9,000 + RPM. That car ran 9.2's in a Factory Ford racing Fairlane. A 351 stroked to 427 in a modern chassis can run solid 8 second quarters today. A 3.6 liter Honda engine will be doing this next year.

This has got to stop. FORD must put some money and time into high rev, low displacement race engines. I am getting sick of the rice rockets looking over and even thinking they can take my Mustang. But until I have a 3.8 Liter engine capable of 600 HP and 10,000 RPM I will just be wondering if I can stay up with them.

Ok some of the stuff you mention is ok but some of this is complete BS. About that civic I dont give a **** if its faster than my car and revs to 10,000 rpm (wow i dont care) he is still driving a CIVIC. Yes that little economy car that really was never intended to be fast. plus look around you what is the ratio of actual motorswap fast civics to all the slow *** ones that are out there.

I think you need to just calm down and stop going off on how you seem to know more than anyone else here. especially when you are pretty new to the board.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by drtbiker
GUESS WHAT GUYS! I found out that the o/w wire was broken right before it goes into the egr valve

All I want to know is if that was making it suck raw air ? Gotta see if i need to send you that buck I bet ? If I was right, get back to me. If I was wrong ... take your time, no rush

[Jeff Chambers]

Obviously jim_howard_pdx, some of us do have an understanding of parasitic losses, weight, balance & blueprinting, etc. It doesn't take a 358W shoehorned into the engine bay to achieve fantastic performance. The little 'ol 302 is a hefty platform for power and torque. You're right though that there's nothing stock about getting 11's out of a 302-based combination, but there's nothing stock about shoehorning a 358W into a 66 coupe either.

My puny little 306 put out 465hp & 424ft-lbs with factory cast iron heads (GT-40P) and they're UNPORTED and have the stock sized 1.84/1.48 valve combination. That's with a measly $150 Weiand Stealth intake (also unport), Holley 650, shorty headers and a .500" lift cam.

No offense man, but your attitude is what's bringing things down here. There's lots of ways to get performance, be it with a ricer or not, and the 302 is definitely one of them.

[88workcar]

I am in no way supporting a bashing on any one's part. BUT Mr Chambers..... I am sitting at this computer so impressed with your reply. You are GREAT.... Thanks...

[RoadWarrior]

Exactly right. there are so many ways to make power in cars that it is almost expected for people to have different opinions on doing it. I have a friend who has run a 14.1 with his mustang and all thats really done to it is clutch and exhaust. And the altitude up here isnt ther greatest. Plus driver is a HUGE part of any car. Ive seen people who drive cars that are 12-13s capable but only manage 14-15's. And the reason i come to this site is because there are alot of people who know what they are talking about. We all have knowledge about our cars whether it is as good as some others we all know what we are talking about.

[lx5091]

I have nothing against anyone here, and I don't like flamewars, however...

This whole thing started with what sounds like a spoiled ***** who sounds like he's had everything given to him: "this is it someone better help or I am selling this car". Hey buddy won't hurt us if you do.

I do agree and diagree with jim_howard_pdx. He has the right idea with not wanting to buy a ricer, instead hoping FORD would create a better platform for us to build off of. That is the right idea, however, I don't think that smaller displacement is the way to go. Certainly, you want the right size motor for the right size car, but c'mon.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by lx5091
This whole thing started with what sounds like a spoiled ***** who sounds like he's had everything given to him: "this is it someone better help or I am selling this car". Hey buddy won't hurt us if you do.

For God's sake man, haven't you ever been frustrated ??? I'm sure he was joking about selling the car.
Let anybody here whos never cussed or thrown a wrench across the room or made a statement like "thats it i'm gettin rid of this dam thing" stand up.

Oh and anybody standin up is lying through their teeth !!

[drtbiker]

I dont understand this guys i make a comment on selling the car and the whole post blows into a war. Listen LX 5091 i am 17years old work 38.75 hours a week @ 9.82 dollars and hour sounds like a spoiled brat i go to school pay for my insurance when i **** up i dont have my parents to help me they go good job. And guess what u know how i am typing right now? i pay for this internet as well as the computer. I was never had anything handed to me nor given anything i will post every paycheck stubb and car payment, you know how i payed for this car i got a loan under my sisters name @ 14% intrest she has no credit she is 19. My dad just recently lost his job so i cant get any money from him and to top it off he just got out of the hospital because he was dieing of cancer. Sound like a spoiled brat man some people just really piss me off. Here i got a suggestion get a JOB! Thats right sounds pretty easy right? that is what i thought! i think u need need to drop childish **** i ask a ? about wiring and i get a answer that i am fucken spoiled bratt. If u used ur brains u would notice that i am fixing my car and not taking it to a dealer and by the way i did the motor swap myself and i dont consider myself a genuis or however u spell it. Are there any other mustang forums i am ready to move on. maybe if i was spoiled i would have a new intake too. ok what ever man


thanks alot for all the people who helped me and i hope the people who were just argueing would grow up.


thanks
raini

ps thanks for backing me up hot roddin atleast some people have a little sense

[90LxDroptop]

Originally posted by drtbiker
I dont understand this guys i make a comment on selling the car and the whole post blows into a war. Listen LX 5091 i am 17years old work 38.75 hours a week @ 9.82 dollars and hour sounds like a spoiled brat i go to school pay for my insurance when i **** up i dont have my parents to help me they go good job. And guess what u know how i am typing right now? i pay for this internet as well as the computer. I was never had anything handed to me nor given anything i will post every paycheck stubb and car payment, you know how i payed for this car i got a loan under my sisters name @ 14% intrest she has no credit she is 19. My dad just recently lost his job so i cant get any money from him and to top it off he just got out of the hospital because he was dieing of cancer. Sound like a spoiled brat man some people just really piss me off. Here i got a suggestion get a JOB! Thats right sounds pretty easy right? that is what i thought! i think u need need to drop childish **** i ask a ? about wiring and i get a answer that i am fucken spoiled bratt. If u used ur brains u would notice that i am fixing my car and not taking it to a dealer and by the way i did the motor swap myself and i dont consider myself a genuis or however u spell it. Are there any other mustang forums i am ready to move on. maybe if i was spoiled i would have a new intake too. ok what ever man


thanks alot for all the people who helped me and i hope the people who were just argueing would grow up.


thanks
raini

ps thanks for backing me up hot roddin atleast some people have a little sense

Amen brutha, Amen!

Raini (drtbiker) is one of my very good friends, and I can vouch that he works 5 days a week, almost 40 hours a week. Some of you guys have to grow up. This thread should of ended right after Pkrwud solved the problem (like he does on every other thread in here!) Hope you fix your car tomorrow man( sunday), If you need a hand, (which you probably don't) give me a call. PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

- Suave

[lx5091]

I SAID I DON'T LIKE FLAME WARS SO THAT WASN'T MY INTENTION. I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO POINT OUT HOW SILLY EVERYONE WAS BEING. AND I SAID YOU "SOUNDED" LIKE A SPOILED *****, I DIDN'T SAY YOU WERE. I KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE BECAUSE I WORKED FOR EVERYTHING I EVER HAD, INCLUDING THE MERCEDES I DROVE IN HIGH SCHOOL, IT WAS MY HUMP EARNING GROCERY STORE PAY. AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PUT SOME KIND OF GUILT TRIP THING ON ANYONE WITH THE MY CANCER RIDDEN DYING DAD BULLSHIT. HEY SORRY MAN, BUT YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY DOING THE SAME THING AS THE ORIGINAL POST. TRYING TO GUILT PEOPLE INTO HELPING YOU.

BUT ALL THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY INTENTION!

DAMN PEOPLE!

I'M JUST TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT EVERYONE TAKES THIS STUFF TOO MUCH TO HEART AND LET'S NOT ARGUE ABOUT DISPLACEMENT BECAUSE WE SOUND LIKE RICERS, AND LET'S NOT THREATEN OUR FELLOW MEMBERS TO TRASH OUR CAR 'CUZ THEY'RE NOT HELPING US FIX IT.

MY REPLY WAS THE ONE THAT WAS MISUNDERSTOOD, NOT YOUR POST.

I truly loved this board, but have serious doubts about how much I will participate in the future. This is not a threat, I just have to try to ignore that this post ever happened and maybe take a break and hope that when I decide to return and post something or a reply it won't be taken as a personal punch in the gut and that if I do need help that people will not shrug me off like I'm a jerk.

Have fun guys.....
take care.

[PKRWUD]

C'mon, ladies, this is getting stupid again.

I will admit, the title to this thread damn near kept me from reading it at all, but Raini is a good guy that means well, he just doesn't always follow instructions real well .

Anyway, he's found the problem, so let's just put this thread to rest, and pretend like most of it never existed.

Fair?

Okay then.



Take care,
~Chris

[lx5091]

thanks chris

[lx5091]

PKRWUD:

What you said actually was the short version of my original reply

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by lx5091
AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PUT SOME KIND OF GUILT TRIP THING ON ANYONE WITH THE MY CANCER RIDDEN DYING DAD BULLSHIT.

How old are you ????

the powers that be can throw me off here if they want, but i'm gonna say it anyway.

That goes beyond just a stupid statement, you need your *** whooped !!!

[fiveohpatrol]

That goes beyond just a stupid statement, you need your *** whooped !!!

I agree, that was WAY out of line. Take a hike, we don't want people like you around here