Ram Air

I am going to ram air my car and would it be better to get equal-length headers with this being a forced induction or should i stick with the unequal

Thanks

[PKRWUD]

Ram Air, at least in your case, will not be forced induction. You will never be able to drive fast enough to have the incoming air move at a faster rate then the vacuum that is sucking it in. Don't kid yourself. A better name for it is cold air induction, because that is the only benefit you will get. Header length makes no difference based on a cold air induction set-up.

Take care,
~Chris

OH some one had told me that ram air was a forced induction and that equal length headers were better with the ram air kit.

[ChunkFunky]

just a little peice of info i thought I'd share... I've got a 72 olds and one of the options for the car was a RAM air hood... but the actual option was called the OAI hood ... outside air induction... so even the factory didnt call it RAM air... but if nothing else, it looks pretty...
-as

[5.0L_Of_Fury]

I dont know about forced induction or not or whatever cuz Im not very smart when it comes to cars...but I will Say I recently bought a March Ram Air Kit and installed it...it increased my gas mileage and not necisserly made MORE power but above about 50 MPH it incresed throttle responce remakably...before I could be running 60 and give it about 3/4 throttle and it would slowly crawl up there...but after...I give it 3/4 throttle at 60 and WOW....If its a march kit you are talking about buying...I would say go for it I really like mine and even purchased it used (From FiveOhPatrol which might I add is a VERY good person to buy from...fast friendly and honest)...and if you dont like it...you can always sell it...

[1969Mach1]

How exactly does Ram Air then work? Like how would the system suck in the air faster then your going? Just wondering..... The shaker hoods on the ol' Mach 1's weren't really Ram Air right? They were the same thing correct?

§am.

[PKRWUD]

Ram Air is a marketing tool. It's a catchy name that has nothing to do with it's function. They can increase responsiveness and power, but not because of a Ram Air effect. They allow colder, denser air to be sucked into the engine, which helps, but they also reduce the bends and turns in the path that the air has to take on it's way in.

It's easy to sell the idea of Ram Air to the average Joe, because odds are he's never put his hand over a carburetor on an engine turning 3000 rpms. Besides, it sounds neat. But, if you want to see for yourself, just attach a vacuum/boost gauge to any n/a engined vehicle, and try to get it to go from vacuum to boost.

Ram-Air is nothing more than cold air induction with a less restrictive path for the air to follow, which is a good thing. But it's not forced induction.

Take care,
~Chris

[fiveohpatrol]

4cyl_Of_Fury, glad you are happy with the kit

and by the way, I had no idea that you were a member on MW

[5.0L_Of_Fury]

yes yes I am...one of the less active ones but yes a member...all of the selling and buying was done through my bro pony_power_90....

[PKRWUD]

You guys aren't gonna start singing "It's a small world", are you?



Take care,
~Chris

[Coupe Devil]

Its a small world after all. Just kiddin. And I do recommend the kit. I havent driven a 5.0 street car in quite some time. I drove Adams car before and after the install and I could tell the difference above 50mph like he said

Bradley

[jim_howard_pdx]

pkrwud is both right and he is wrong.

Most ram air systems are only cold air inductors. He is completely right about that. That is because the incoming fresh air charge has opportunities to escape and reduce their pressure effect.

He is wrong because all the bug scoop ram air systems we used on engines from the 50's on up show a very demonstateable 10 horsepower increase on the dyno both at the flywheel and at the rear wheels.

Running cold intake alone does not build the same horsepower as ram air.

On a track like Daytona, where you can reach 200 mph on the high banked oval, ram air was an essential and critical element to make the horsepower necessary to be competitive.

pkrwud is correct to say that ram air is not forced induction. It does not show boost. However it does increase the air's density and with the intake charge being carefully tuned, you do see extra cylinder filling at speed with a ram air system. That is what builds the extra 10 horsepower.

Hope this helps a little.

I like ram air. Works great on the fords with the shaker hood scoops. I am trying to finish a cold air induction - ram air system on my 358. I just keep getting stalled by other more pressing issues.

Pkrwud has not said this yet, so I will offer you this tidbit now. When it comes to a carburetor, you need smooth and vertical air flow through the venturi's to get optimum atomization. So I like to use K&N filters with K&N's new X stream top. This smooths the air flow and gets the best from my Holley.

For a fuel injected engine, running a cold air intake with a ram face may not give you any extra horsepower, because your computer is triggering your injectors based upon mas air flow. That is why I like speed density fuel injection for race engines, cause I can "tune" the engine with the fuel injection like I can "tune" an engine with a carburetor. So a ram air speed density system might build the extra 10 horsepower. The MAS for some reason will NOT.

Can anyone fill me in on why MAS does not respond to ram air? I really have never figured this out.

[Dark_5.0]

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx




He is wrong because all the bug scoop ram air systems we used on engines from the 50's on up show a very demonstateable 10 horsepower increase on the dyno both at the flywheel and at the rear wheels.

How the H3LL can you increase HP with a ram air effect on a stationary dyno.

LMAO

[spankaveli]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
How the H3LL can you increase HP with a ram air effect on a stationary dyno.

LMAO

shop fan?

[jim_howard_pdx]

By using a wind tunnel based air inlet....

how do I describe this.....

By utilizing a miniture wind tunnel, you can create an air inlet subsystem to alter the air temperature, air volume, and air density. This is all computer calibrated since the 80's.

You hook the output of the inlet subsystem to the carb or air intake on a fuelie. This allows the dyno to see specific effects of track temperature, air density, or ram air volume effect on any engine we test.

You can use this to test the effects of a K&N Stub stack, or an air filter arrangement, or a ram air system.

These were originally created to dyno aircraft engines at different altitudes, bariometric pressures, and the like....

Need I say more.......

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
How the H3LL can you increase HP with a ram air effect on a stationary dyno.

LMAO

You beat me to it.

Take care,
~Chris

[jim_howard_pdx]

pkrwud,

I wish you could have seen the stretched Ford "fatbody" we built with a rolls royce Merlin engine. 2,000 horsepower and a world record at Bonneville.

I got to help with the bodywork and under body pan to cut wind resistance and improve downforce at 250 mph.

I did not get to wrench on the aircraft engine, I was only allowed to stand and admire it.

This was a good thing for sure, because I can break anything ever built. Just ask anyone who knows me well. I break stuff all the time.

On a historical note, these same engines were used on P 51 Mustangs and British Spitfire fighters during WWII. They were the only prop aircraft that could break the sound barrier during a dive. P 47's did this with the 2,000 hp Pratt & Whitney rotary piston engines, but they had to be nose to the deck, and you did not always get a chance to pull out of a dive like this when you lost all aerodynamic lift.

Have a great weekend.

[PKRWUD]

When we set the worlds record for the fastest motorcycle, we used two hogged out V-Twin Harley engines. That was a badd-a$s streamliner!

I will have a great weekend, thank you, and I hope yours is teriffic as well!



Take care,
~Chris

[jim_howard_pdx]

Hey, back to the header question--who cares about rolls royce merlin engines anyhow......

For some reason I could NEVER get a proper explanation on, an equal length header either short or long develops more hp and torque than unequal length headers.

I really like the Flow Tech headers that take the one out of phase cylinder on each head's bank, and put that tube under the collector for the three in phase primary tubes. This improves the scavanging of that out of phase cylinder.

I would think the ram air would help ANY engine. Ford showed a 10 hp increase on the 351 C 2V and 4V heads with the shaker hood. The Cleveland ran really stupid cast iron headers that were power KILLERS. We always ran long length equal tube headers on these cars in order to regain some of the low end torque lost from those HUGE a s s ports. Even the 2V Cleveland had HUGE a s s ports, but at least they could squeel the tires at will.

So go ram air now and enjoy the extra power. Change to a better header when it is convenient to do so.

Adding an H pipe might add back any horsepower lost to your unequal length headers if you have a basic warmed over engine.

Have the shop build you off-road pipes so you can pull the catalytic converter off when you race. Make sure you put some antiseize on these bypass pipe bolts so when you need to remount the cat(s) it will be easier to do.

Removing the cats and adding an H pipe might be good for 15 hp or more at your rear wheels, and the cost is negligable.

[fiveohpatrol]

I really like the Flow Tech headers

I think that is the first time that phrase has ever been said by anyone