Supercharger Questions - Page 2

BigEd · 12-26-2002, 11:16 PM

I have an ATI Procharger with intercooler that peaks at 10psi @6000RPM. 94 GT 5 spd, stock motor except for Ecam as you can see below.
I'd like to clarify some of the posts on this thread with the experience I've had with mine.

My supercharger never affected my idle or driveability. The dump valve is open until you nail the throttle so the engine operates as normal.

The FMU jacks up fuel pressure proportionately to manifold pressure. It does not affect idle or light throttle fuel mixture at all. It acts on positive manifold pressure only (boost conditions) which you only have when you nail the throttle pretty heavy.

My boost level is exceeding the limits of my 19# injectors to the point of lean out pinging in cold dry weather. (I thought it was timing but it isn't). The FMU is already raising fuel pressure over 100psi. I would run 30's or higher if you could. It would be best to have injectors big enough to run without an FMU. You can do a search, I think even on this sight, to get a calculation on what size injectors to run based on HP.
my 2 cents

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-26-2002, 11:17 PM

Interesting website at tweecer. I especially like the link to the forum with tweecer users to derive optimal settings.
$500 plus the widebands though....I would like to hear some more about it from users. I think it would be great, despite the fact that even the tweecer website says there "is a great deal of trial and error".
I think the ability to switch operational programs like that would be great for the weekend racer.

bri32zz · 12-26-2002, 11:19 PM

Go with the 42lb injectors and bypass the FMU they suck. Set your timming at 10 degrees and go from there. Then GET A CHIP. It is a must with any blower. Your idle will probaly suck with the e-cam I know mine does. If you set your base idle to 1000 rpm's it will help a lot. If you plan on running a/c forget about it. You will have constant idle problems there. Good luck

88workcar · 12-28-2002, 04:55 AM

What would be better, a chip? or the twECCer? or somthing else? I was told yesterday that with a computer that is programable that I don't need the FMU or BTM. If so it is cheaper for the twECCer than a custom chip and a BTM. I would enjoy having the ability to tune the computer, raise the rev limiter and all that stuff.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-28-2002, 09:24 AM

88Workcar,
The tweecer website says there is a dedicated yahoo chatroom for tweecer users who discuss and trade programs for various applications. I'm sure you could go there and get some idea/feedback on the viability of the unit.
Like I said, the price is around $500 plus widebands and that is just for the basic unit. The data logger option sounds like the best to me, but I am just beginning to investigate this too. It sounds expensive though, but what isn't in this hobby?

"Calibration data includes:
Engine displacement
Injector size
MAF function
Base / Stabilized / startup fuel mixture
Base / Altitude / Limp mode timing tables
94/95 AOD-E shift points, TV Pressure, etc
Drive & Neutral idle rpm
Neutral & in gear rev limits
This is just a brief sample of the data locations which may be modified.

Do you have a custom chip, why start from scratch, you pay shipping to and from us and we will read it and send it back to you. Free! Just flash the bin file to your TwEECer and you have a good solid starting point and a calibration you know is safe, now start modifying that file and save it to one of the other 3 calibration locations you have available"

WARNING:
YOU MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF CHANGING EEC PARAMETERS OR YOU MAY NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOUR CAR’S PERFORMANCE!

TwEECer RT
- Real Time data logging, viewing and playback
- includes CalEdit, CalCon & cables.
$550 + $11 shipping
Texas Residents must pay sales tax

I think as soon as I find a wideband 02, I 'm doing it!!!
Look at the dyno pulls on the website...interesting stuff.

SaleenGTS · 12-30-2002, 08:52 AM

100 psi is too high.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-30-2002, 09:54 AM

Saleen.
Those are nice numbers for your 347. How much boost are you running at what RPM? Is yours a daily driver?
Thanks, just looking forward to the day when I can slap a 331 in...I can't believe it either...

Kamaro Killer · 12-30-2002, 04:00 PM

I have a powerdyne 6# unit. I rarely ever see this many people with superchargers in one thread. Is there anywhere to go to on the web that has forums for supercharged cars? Sometimes I need something answered related to my s/c and I can't seem to find anyone who knows. Thanks, Keith

USMC302 · 12-30-2002, 04:49 PM

I have my wife driving a supercharged 95 with the Vortech V1, i believe it's only like 5 or 6 lbs with the 155lph pump, X-pipe, FMU, and 9mm wires. We have no idle problems and no pinging as long as we stick to 93+ octane, I am sending the unit back to Vortech tomorrow for a bearing rebuild only after 21k miles. I am also going to upgrade to the 10lbs pulley and a trickflow intake and cooler plugs. We are still utilizing the stock 19lb injectors with the FMU. Do you guys think we we start having problems with the upgraded boost to 10lbs or not yet?

stangsrule · 12-30-2002, 05:08 PM

Hey Hozer and 88Work car and for that matter anybody else interested in the TwEECer you also should check out this link:http://tweecer.oplnk.net/ They now have a message board too, the Yahoo chat thing is really hard to follow...
And for widebands look at these links: http://www.diy-wb.com/info.htm
http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/
http://www.lambdaboy.com/
http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/WBO...dairfuelk.html

The last one is not a wideband and I don't know much about it but some guys at the corral were swearing it was as accurate as the dyno shop widebands they were comparing it to...

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-30-2002, 07:14 PM

I'm not sure how many of us there are...but I think it's a great idea to have a supercharger forum..
I'm going to take a long hard look at the tweecer sites tonight. If my MAC cat back sells on ebay soon, I'm on it!....
I just finished swapping my equal shorty headers for some new ones...damn. What fun! Taking motor mounts off! Joy! (Yes I have had several beers)...found wet oil and a bunch of crud(and I mean debris) on the tip of the number 5 plug...uh oh..hope I haven't blown something....

stangsrule · 12-30-2002, 07:59 PM

I am all for a supercharger forum, I often have to go to the Corral for supercharger info...

Don't get me wrong, the Corral is a nice place and all, but Mustang Works is my home.

Let's talk to Dan about it!

Stang_Crazy · 12-31-2002, 04:35 PM

I think a supercharger forum is a GREAT idea!! I always have to go to Corral or Stangnet to get answers to some of my questions.

88workcar · 12-31-2002, 09:55 PM

HOZER, What would you car dyno with the blower disconnected? I am impressed with 460ftpd with 8# of boost.

Hozer 88GTConv · 12-31-2002, 11:14 PM

Before the blower with a misfire due to a bad PIP sensor in my then Mallory billet distributor (never, ever buy this piece of junk, a $225 mistake) it did 330 ft/lbs after some dyno tuning. I have to admit it was more the guys at the shop than me at the time, tweaking my a/f and my timing just right.
Of course now it seems I have a bit of a valve guide problem with number 5 cylinder...great, happy f-ing new year....

302man · 01-01-2003, 06:32 PM

88 workcar,
I must be part of the minority . My S trimed engine ran a 10.13@135 with base timing and a BTM . No chip ! Idled fine. Don't get all caught up in chips/fmu's and everything. I know quite a few guys who run and have ran up to 12lbs of boost with 30lb injectors. Although 42's are nice, they usually reqire a chip because the car just won't idle with them. If I were you, I would make sure the ProM 77 is calabrated for a supercharger. ( That makes it 10% richer everywhere but idle. ) Put the 30's in, base fuel pressure at 45lbs, get a big fuel pump. Then, first thing, put it on a dyno with a wideband and see where you are at. If you are interested in how I ran my timing, let me know, I will tell you what and where I had everything.

Tim

88workcar · 01-03-2003, 07:47 AM

Tim, FMU or not?

302man · 01-03-2003, 08:18 AM

I would try it with no FMU. But again, the true test is with a wideband. You have lots of money and a nice car, you don't need to granade the engine over $100 dyno session. If it turns out you need more fuel, larger injectors would be the way I would go. But, you have the 30's now, try them.

Hozer 88GTConv · 01-03-2003, 09:18 AM

What 302 is saying is true. I am not saying it is impossible to achieve good results w/o the aid of a chip. I just think it is money well spent.
If you drop the several grand for a blower setup, the extra couple of hundred was the best way for me (and for many others) to achieve optimum efficiency for their setup.
It allowed me to utilize known optimum fuel and timing curves for my combo.
Translation = Minimal guess work
Is it mandatory? Of course not.

That tweecer rt sure is nice though...

302man · 01-03-2003, 09:35 AM

I agree with Hozer 88GTConv, there are a bunch of ways to skin a cat. But, being new to Superchargers, it can be overwhelming on what you need, and what you have to have and what you need to get. Again , on my S trimed car, it was so basic it wasn't even funny. But it worked great. That is what I wanted to share with you so that you don't get sticker shock on all these have to have items.

12-26-2002, 11:16 PM	#21
BigEd Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 56	I have an ATI Procharger with intercooler that peaks at 10psi @6000RPM. 94 GT 5 spd, stock motor except for Ecam as you can see below. I'd like to clarify some of the posts on this thread with the experience I've had with mine. My supercharger never affected my idle or driveability. The dump valve is open until you nail the throttle so the engine operates as normal. The FMU jacks up fuel pressure proportionately to manifold pressure. It does not affect idle or light throttle fuel mixture at all. It acts on positive manifold pressure only (boost conditions) which you only have when you nail the throttle pretty heavy. My boost level is exceeding the limits of my 19# injectors to the point of lean out pinging in cold dry weather. (I thought it was timing but it isn't). The FMU is already raising fuel pressure over 100psi. I would run 30's or higher if you could. It would be best to have injectors big enough to run without an FMU. You can do a search, I think even on this sight, to get a calculation on what size injectors to run based on HP. my 2 cents __________________ Black 94 GT 5 speed. 10# Procharger, E cam, 2 chamber Flows, 3.73 gears, MAC offroad H pipe, MSD 6AL, SpeedBrain 12.94 @ 104MPH

12-26-2002, 11:17 PM	#22
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Tweecer... Interesting website at tweecer. I especially like the link to the forum with tweecer users to derive optimal settings. $500 plus the widebands though....I would like to hear some more about it from users. I think it would be great, despite the fact that even the tweecer website says there "is a great deal of trial and error". I think the ability to switch operational programs like that would be great for the weekend racer. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-26-2002, 11:19 PM	#23
bri32zz Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canton GA Posts: 216	Go with the 42lb injectors and bypass the FMU they suck. Set your timming at 10 degrees and go from there. Then GET A CHIP. It is a must with any blower. Your idle will probaly suck with the e-cam I know mine does. If you set your base idle to 1000 rpm's it will help a lot. If you plan on running a/c forget about it. You will have constant idle problems there. Good luck __________________ My CAR IS GONE R.I.P----I miss YOU 331ci, 69 Windsor heads ported and shaved , Trick Flow-Intake ported,JE blower pistons, Custom cam 542 lift, 1.73 rrs, Equal length headers, BBK Hi-Flow cats, Hurst shifter, 3:73 gears, Tremec 3550 tranny,Lakewood drag suspension-90/10 in front and 50/50 in the back. Lakewood traction bars. Edelbrock 70mm tb, K&N filter, Kirban fuel reguator, Custom sub-Frame connectors,83 lb squirters, powerdyne blower with 12psi pulley, http://www.pumpoperators.com/brian/ Rice Haters Club Member #82 My wife is AWSOME!!!!!!!!

12-28-2002, 04:55 AM	#24
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	What would be better, a chip? or the twECCer? or somthing else? I was told yesterday that with a computer that is programable that I don't need the FMU or BTM. If so it is cheaper for the twECCer than a custom chip and a BTM. I would enjoy having the ability to tune the computer, raise the rev limiter and all that stuff. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

12-28-2002, 09:24 AM	#25
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Tweecer... 88Workcar, The tweecer website says there is a dedicated yahoo chatroom for tweecer users who discuss and trade programs for various applications. I'm sure you could go there and get some idea/feedback on the viability of the unit. Like I said, the price is around $500 plus widebands and that is just for the basic unit. The data logger option sounds like the best to me, but I am just beginning to investigate this too. It sounds expensive though, but what isn't in this hobby? "Calibration data includes: Engine displacement Injector size MAF function Base / Stabilized / startup fuel mixture Base / Altitude / Limp mode timing tables 94/95 AOD-E shift points, TV Pressure, etc Drive & Neutral idle rpm Neutral & in gear rev limits This is just a brief sample of the data locations which may be modified. Do you have a custom chip, why start from scratch, you pay shipping to and from us and we will read it and send it back to you. Free! Just flash the bin file to your TwEECer and you have a good solid starting point and a calibration you know is safe, now start modifying that file and save it to one of the other 3 calibration locations you have available" WARNING: YOU MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF CHANGING EEC PARAMETERS OR YOU MAY NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOUR CAR’S PERFORMANCE! TwEECer RT - Real Time data logging, viewing and playback - includes CalEdit, CalCon & cables. $550 + $11 shipping Texas Residents must pay sales tax I think as soon as I find a wideband 02, I 'm doing it!!! Look at the dyno pulls on the website...interesting stuff. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy Last edited by Hozer 88GTConv; 12-28-2002 at 09:31 AM..

12-30-2002, 08:52 AM	#26
SaleenGTS RICE taste like Chicken Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 687	100 psi is too high. __________________ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport Supercharged 306 Started her up 6/8/03 Old Motor Supercharged 347 516 rwhp 553 rwtq 11.249@126.83 1997 Honda CBR 1100XX Super Blackbird 162 hp

12-30-2002, 09:54 AM	#27
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	How much boost? Saleen. Those are nice numbers for your 347. How much boost are you running at what RPM? Is yours a daily driver? Thanks, just looking forward to the day when I can slap a 331 in...I can't believe it either... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-30-2002, 04:00 PM	#28
Kamaro Killer Mustang Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 528	I have a powerdyne 6# unit. I rarely ever see this many people with superchargers in one thread. Is there anywhere to go to on the web that has forums for supercharged cars? Sometimes I need something answered related to my s/c and I can't seem to find anyone who knows. Thanks, Keith __________________ 1993 GT 5.0-My Stang Rice Hater's Club Member 22

12-30-2002, 04:49 PM	#29
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	I have my wife driving a supercharged 95 with the Vortech V1, i believe it's only like 5 or 6 lbs with the 155lph pump, X-pipe, FMU, and 9mm wires. We have no idle problems and no pinging as long as we stick to 93+ octane, I am sending the unit back to Vortech tomorrow for a bearing rebuild only after 21k miles. I am also going to upgrade to the 10lbs pulley and a trickflow intake and cooler plugs. We are still utilizing the stock 19lb injectors with the FMU. Do you guys think we we start having problems with the upgraded boost to 10lbs or not yet? __________________

12-30-2002, 05:08 PM	#30
stangsrule Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 512	Hey Hozer and 88Work car and for that matter anybody else interested in the TwEECer you also should check out this link:http://tweecer.oplnk.net/ They now have a message board too, the Yahoo chat thing is really hard to follow... And for widebands look at these links: http://www.diy-wb.com/info.htm http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/ http://www.lambdaboy.com/ http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/WBO...dairfuelk.html The last one is not a wideband and I don't know much about it but some guys at the corral were swearing it was as accurate as the dyno shop widebands they were comparing it to... __________________ 92GT Lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, SMC Alky Injection kit, J&S Knock Gaurd, TwEECer RT and a bunch of other stuff!

12-30-2002, 07:14 PM	#31
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	supercharged forum... I'm not sure how many of us there are...but I think it's a great idea to have a supercharger forum.. I'm going to take a long hard look at the tweecer sites tonight. If my MAC cat back sells on ebay soon, I'm on it!.... I just finished swapping my equal shorty headers for some new ones...damn. What fun! Taking motor mounts off! Joy! (Yes I have had several beers)...found wet oil and a bunch of crud(and I mean debris) on the tip of the number 5 plug...uh oh..hope I haven't blown something.... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

12-30-2002, 07:59 PM	#32
stangsrule Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 512	I am all for a supercharger forum, I often have to go to the Corral for supercharger info... Don't get me wrong, the Corral is a nice place and all, but Mustang Works is my home. Let's talk to Dan about it! __________________ 92GT Lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, SMC Alky Injection kit, J&S Knock Gaurd, TwEECer RT and a bunch of other stuff!

12-31-2002, 04:35 PM	#33
Stang_Crazy It's never clean enough! Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Shaler, PA Posts: 1,542	I think a supercharger forum is a GREAT idea!! I always have to go to Corral or Stangnet to get answers to some of my questions. __________________ ~Dan 2001 SVT Lightning 89' GT : Taking up garage space and waiting for a buyer... Rice Hater's Club - Member #11

12-31-2002, 09:55 PM	#34
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	HOZER, What would you car dyno with the blower disconnected? I am impressed with 460ftpd with 8# of boost. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

12-31-2002, 11:14 PM	#35
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Non-blown torque numbers... Before the blower with a misfire due to a bad PIP sensor in my then Mallory billet distributor (never, ever buy this piece of junk, a $225 mistake) it did 330 ft/lbs after some dyno tuning. I have to admit it was more the guys at the shop than me at the time, tweaking my a/f and my timing just right. Of course now it seems I have a bit of a valve guide problem with number 5 cylinder...great, happy f-ing new year.... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

01-01-2003, 06:32 PM	#36
302man Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: INDIANAPOLIS Posts: 404	88 workcar, I must be part of the minority . My S trimed engine ran a 10.13@135 with base timing and a BTM . No chip ! Idled fine. Don't get all caught up in chips/fmu's and everything. I know quite a few guys who run and have ran up to 12lbs of boost with 30lb injectors. Although 42's are nice, they usually reqire a chip because the car just won't idle with them. If I were you, I would make sure the ProM 77 is calabrated for a supercharger. ( That makes it 10% richer everywhere but idle. ) Put the 30's in, base fuel pressure at 45lbs, get a big fuel pump. Then, first thing, put it on a dyno with a wideband and see where you are at. If you are interested in how I ran my timing, let me know, I will tell you what and where I had everything. Tim __________________ old S trim combo 10.13@ 135 New YS combo = 680RWHP (no times)

01-03-2003, 07:47 AM	#37
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Tim, FMU or not? __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

01-03-2003, 08:18 AM	#38
302man Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: INDIANAPOLIS Posts: 404	I would try it with no FMU. But again, the true test is with a wideband. You have lots of money and a nice car, you don't need to granade the engine over $100 dyno session. If it turns out you need more fuel, larger injectors would be the way I would go. But, you have the 30's now, try them. __________________ old S trim combo 10.13@ 135 New YS combo = 680RWHP (no times)

01-03-2003, 09:18 AM	#39
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	FMU or Not... What 302 is saying is true. I am not saying it is impossible to achieve good results w/o the aid of a chip. I just think it is money well spent. If you drop the several grand for a blower setup, the extra couple of hundred was the best way for me (and for many others) to achieve optimum efficiency for their setup. It allowed me to utilize known optimum fuel and timing curves for my combo. Translation = Minimal guess work Is it mandatory? Of course not. That tweecer rt sure is nice though... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

01-03-2003, 09:35 AM	#40
302man Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: INDIANAPOLIS Posts: 404	I agree with Hozer 88GTConv, there are a bunch of ways to skin a cat. But, being new to Superchargers, it can be overwhelming on what you need, and what you have to have and what you need to get. Again , on my S trimed car, it was so basic it wasn't even funny. But it worked great. That is what I wanted to share with you so that you don't get sticker shock on all these have to have items. __________________ old S trim combo 10.13@ 135 New YS combo = 680RWHP (no times)

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