New Best E.T. - Timeslip attached!

[fiveohpatrol]

how do you have a 302 intake on a 351 block?

even so, the 302 heads and intake should have your car making a ton more power.

We're not saying that it could make more power with better parts, we're saying it should be making more power even with the stuff you currently have. Something just doesn't add up

[Skyman]

I went 109mph with similar parts on a 302. Something is ascew.

Skyler

[Stang_ROTY]

Jeez...where do I start? Timing?

[Stang_ROTY]

It's the upper manifold that is for the 302...the lower plenum is for the 351 truck...both made by edelbrock. Maybe that's where I should start??

Originally posted by fiveohpatrol
how do you have a 302 intake on a 351 block?

even so, the 302 heads and intake should have your car making a ton more power.

We're not saying that it could make more power with better parts, we're saying it should be making more power even with the stuff you currently have. Something just doesn't add up

[88fivepointoh]

Well a few questions on this...

A. where is your fuel pressure set at?
B. timing set currently
C. did i read that you still have cats on this car? If so they need to BOUNCE!
D. I aggree with these guys on the cam issue being a tooth off. you will probably see great low end and crappy high end if thats the case.

due you have a Air fuel ratio gauge on this car? With 30lb injectors that should be ok , but maybe your running lean?

A dyno would tell all, but definetly something doesn't sound right. a 393 should blow the doors off of everything.

Also what TBI size do u have?

[Skyman]

Give us every detail on your setup so we can pick it apart and see what you need to attack.

-Skyler

[andy669]

Those heads usually like alot of timing.

15 degrees of timing is worth exactly 100 horsepower in my car. Thats where I'd look first.

Andy

[88fivepointoh]

I think many of us agree that there is a timing issue for sure... I would check the base timing and see how she runs.

[Stang_ROTY]

My engine builder set the timing about 25 degrees too advanced initially (I knew becasue I heard a pinging/ratling noise @ WOT). So I brought it to another guy who set the base timing back to 10 degrees (where JMS wanted it at - the chip is supposed to take it from there). The real problem is that I don't know how to time the engine myself, but it's time for me to learn. If you guys are really going to help me, than I'll go buy a timing light and follow your instructions. For the specs on the setup...see below:

MAF - Pro-M 75mm
TB - BBK 70mm
Performer RPM upper
Performer heads (untouched-2.02/1.60)
351W lower manifold
42 psi @ WOT
MSD 6AL box
3500 stall converter (Dynamic Racing)
C4 Roller Myte (Dynamic Racing)

[88fivepointoh]

Wow 25 degrees, That is crazy... how long was it running like that with that timing? 25 degrees will definetly damage the engine...

[Stang_ROTY]

Not very long at all....we just estimated that it was advanced about 25 degrees too high. It was never ran down the track like that. But here's where I stand now. I'm attaching a pic of the timing pointer for starters. See, when my engine builder timed the engine, he used the half-circle as a reference (See "A"). When I brought her to the other guy, he could tell that it was too far advanced and that we used the half circle as a reference point. He then told me that I needed to use the top of the pointer as reference point. I just checked the timing (set the dial to 10 degrees) and the black mark on my harmonic balancer appeared at the spot I marked (See the "B" above the "A"). What's that mean? Is the timing retarded?

[88fivepointoh]

if i remeber correctly where the numbers are thats high timing... 20's or 30s.. of course you have to remove the timing spout connector to adjust your timing and check it. what numbers is it pointing to on timing plate?

[Stang_ROTY]

If I remember correctly, we painted the black stripe on the balancer at 10 degrees. Was I correct in saying that you take reference at the top of the timing pointer, and not at the half circle (point "A" on the jpeg)??

[Skyman]

What size injectors? What injectors is your maf calibrated for? Do you have any weird bents from a fender coldair setup or anything infront of the maf? What exhaust setup do you have?


I would pull the chip. Set your timing with the spout out at 16 deg initial. Get one of the aftermarket lower 351 intakes, TFS makes one, and a couple other people do as well. I could be wrong, but that truck lower is probably KILLING you. Anything else your leaving out?

Skyler

[tmoss]

Originally posted by Skyman
I could be wrong, but that truck lower is probably KILLING you.

Skyler

Your not wrong, and that lower is not even worth porting.

[andy669]

Yes, you read the timing marks at the flat spot on the pointer, not the circle. If your engine builder didnt know that, I'm afraid of what else he didnt know.

The fact is, from a performance standpoint, your combo is a little mis-matched. But since you built this to still be emissions legal, your 393 probably wont run like most everybody elses. All in all, I think you are doing pretty good. The only reason I suggested verifying the timing, is that its the easiest thing to check and the best place to start.

There could be several things wrong with your times. It could be as simple as changing drivers. How many times have you gone down the 1/4? Are you sure you ran the car out past the last set of cones? Its a dumb question I know, but lots of people get confused on their first few passes.

Did you ever tell is what cam is in it? Or did I miss that.

Andy

[Stang_ROTY]

Injetors are FRPP 30 lb...MAF is calibrated for them. I'm running the BBK Cold Air kit, and it should be noted that the opening to the TB is smaller in diameter than the TB actually is. Therefore, the BBK Cold Air Intake pipe actually fits inside the TB. Yes, I'm losing a bit of airflow there on an already restricted setup but it seems my only alternative is a Anderson-type pipe which sucks hot air from the engine in (seems a bit counterproductive to me). Exhaust is longutbe Mac Headers with a 3" collector going into a BBK H-pipe w/cats removed going into Flowmaster 2 chamber (small) mufflers...all 2 1/2". Will a 3" exhasut help?

Only other thing that I think we're not talking about is tire size....won't tire size directly effect my MPH and gear ratio??

Originally posted by Skyman
What size injectors? What injectors is your maf calibrated for? Do you have any weird bents from a fender coldair setup or anything infront of the maf? What exhaust setup do you have?


I would pull the chip. Set your timing with the spout out at 16 deg initial. Get one of the aftermarket lower 351 intakes, TFS makes one, and a couple other people do as well. I could be wrong, but that truck lower is probably KILLING you. Anything else your leaving out?

Skyler

[Stang_ROTY]

As far as my experience goes, I've made maybe 15 passes total, and I stay right in it until I see the winning light turn on. My 60ft times are that of a 10 second car, the car lifts the front driver's wheel slightly off the ground w/out the t-brake, but if you look at the timeslip I fall off after the 1/8th mile. Regarding the cam, it's almost the exact spec as a FRPP "Z" cam. The specs are not exact but they are very close to the Z cam. I'm also running a non-roller setup because I have an older block and didn't have the $$ in my budget for the conversion kit.

So based on the mark "B" on the jpeg....is my timing off? The mark "B" is where the black line (painted at the 10 degree mark on the balancer) shows up under the timing light. Seems like I'm a bit off based on the fact I need to line up above the "B" mark (at the flat point of the timing pointer).

Originally posted by andy669
Yes, you read the timing marks at the flat spot on the pointer, not the circle. If your engine builder didnt know that, I'm afraid of what else he didnt know.

The fact is, from a performance standpoint, your combo is a little mis-matched. But since you built this to still be emissions legal, your 393 probably wont run like most everybody elses. All in all, I think you are doing pretty good. The only reason I suggested verifying the timing, is that its the easiest thing to check and the best place to start.

There could be several things wrong with your times. It could be as simple as changing drivers. How many times have you gone down the 1/4? Are you sure you ran the car out past the last set of cones? Its a dumb question I know, but lots of people get confused on their first few passes.

Did you ever tell is what cam is in it? Or did I miss that.

Andy

[Skyman]

Tire size has a small effect on gear ratio. Gear ratio isnt the problem here. HP production is. GET a good intake. Get rid of any bents infront of the maf, and put a K&N air filter right on the end of it. yes it pulls some hot air, but bends in front of the maf can screw things up. DITCH THE CHIP. Get to somewhere that can set your timing properly, it shouldnt be that hard.

I have a 4.6L motor, smog legal, stock heads/cams, and Im confident it runs very very low 12's.

Skyler

[Stang_ROTY]

OK...so that's a new lower 351W manifold, and an upper intake as well. How about the Edelbrock Victor 5.8 intake??

Do you suggest getting a Anderson Ford-type intake pipe, instead of the BBK fender mount to eliminate the bends??

Ditching the chip sucks because the car won't idle without it, and it sputters badly under part throttle as well. I want to make power, but to sacrifice my driveability would suck bigtime. Is there any other guys on this forum with a similar setup that are not running any chip?

Back to timing, based on the reference "B" in that jpeg, am I even at 10 degrees yet?? The black mark on the balancer isn't at the top of the timing pointer...