aluminum heads - Page 2

82 GT · 11-10-2006, 03:04 PM

Here's some good reading for ya. It basically confirms what has already been said about Pro Comp and some other things I didn't know about them.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ner/index2.php

1979bruiser · 11-10-2006, 03:16 PM

no big deal if you have to go through the archives , i was just wondering and trying to learn a little more for myself to help other people who might face the same issues that dont go on these forums.thanks everyone.

HeadDoctor · 11-10-2006, 10:30 PM

Brian

What are you really looking for in a set of heads for your car?

Did you read my thread about "How to pick the best head for your engine?"

It's more than just an air-flow concern, because the engine is a dynamic machine, consequently all the parts must be married together in order to work in the way that you want it to. This compromise of components must be sorted out before you ever buy any part, because you have to know the limitations of of your wallet as well as what you intend to do with the engine. Similarly if you intend to drive it on the street there are even more compromises to contend with, not he least of which is the awful gas.

I understand that you have done you research, on heads but how to fit them to the engine is an altogether different set of conditions.

Denny@JDS Induction Products

82 GT · 11-10-2006, 11:25 PM

yeah I did read it awhile ago..pretty good stuff. I know it's all about flow velocity and not just how big the runners are and other factors, of course.
Here's a good question for you: How large are the runners of a stock 351w head('74)
I'm figuring I only need about 170-185cc runners for whatever heads I go with, if I keep my current cam. I think the 205-210 heads are overkill for my setup.
I just want to make the right choice because I don't want to end up with something that's too much or something that's no better than what I already have.
A 6500-6800 shift point would suite me fine.
What's your professional opinion on what I need. I'd like to run high 11's n/a but if it ends up costing me more than what I can afford or willing to pay then I may as well just keep the nitrous and spray my way into the 11's....right?

HeadDoctor · 11-11-2006, 10:18 AM

Brian

Production cast iron heads are in the 130 to 150 cc range, if you want power in the 2500 to 6500 range then you have to stick with a 1.940 intake valve. I use 80% of the that area to decide how big to make the Int port at the P-Rod squeeze. We can make 400 to 450 hp with production iron heads, at a cost of about $2K. A good set of aluminum heads that will do the same thing will cost about the same money. Your biggest problem is that you have a carbureted engine, and can't take advantage of the "Long-Runner" EFI manifold, which will bring up the low end of the power curve. Along with that you could also get some extra long (40") headers, that would also help this low end torque problem in the 2500 to 6500 range - (See The Engine Masters Challange).

CFM @ 302 X 6500/3456=568
CFM @ 347 = 652.6
CFM @ 351 = 665.2

See - Now if you can find a Tunnel-Ram - mill off the carb flanges on the top and weld plates to it to cover the holes. then put 2 Mikuni-Weber or similar on either side of the plenum and wa-la you have a longer runner intake!!! As for the exhaust all you have to do is make some extensions for the primary tubes, get a new set of "Merged" collectors that fit the new diameter extensions and there you have it. This is not the ideal way to accomplish it but it will serve the purpose well enough. If the 2 side-draft carbs are too expensive then think about 1 55mm side draft.

Denny@JDS Induction Products

1979bruiser · 11-11-2006, 10:53 AM

CFM @ 302 X 6500/3456=568
CFM @ 347 = 652.6
CFM @ 351 = 665.2

please explain

1979bruiser · 11-11-2006, 10:56 AM

also how does the push rod pinch affect a head. both my local apeed shops told me thats not that important, all the power comes from the bowl area. how do you determine if it should be made wider?

lugthug713 · 11-11-2006, 08:11 PM

I dont know what forums are out there talking about those heads but I am also in

www.moddedmustangs.com
www.allfordmustangs.com
www.mustangevolution.com

each site has good info

1979bruiser · 11-11-2006, 08:32 PM

i will be shure to check them all out.

10sec80cobra · 11-11-2006, 10:26 PM

1979 check pm

1979bruiser · 11-11-2006, 10:47 PM

got it, hit you back.
thanks

HeadDoctor · 11-11-2006, 11:09 PM

Bruiser

That is the formula for determining the required CFM of any engine:

CFM = Displacement, times, RPM divided by the constant 3456

Thus if Brian is running a 302 CID engine and only wants to turn it 6500 RPM's then all the carb he needs is 568 CFM - By doing this he will increase the throttle response of his engine, with the added benifit of the carb being able to meter the fuel much better because of the high velocity through the boosters.

Thats why I suggested the Weber/Mikuni type carb - because of its higher adjustibility!!!

Denny@JDS Induction Products

82 GT · 11-12-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadDoctor

Bruiser

Thus if Brian is running a 302 CID engine and only wants to turn it 6500 RPM's then all the carb he needs is 568 CFM - By doing this he will increase the throttle response of his engine, with the added benifit of the carb being able to meter the fuel much better because of the high velocity through the boosters.

I don't have a 302, it's a 351w. I also don't have a problem with low end power, it's the high end my engine needs.

10sec80cobra · 11-12-2006, 08:50 AM

check pm again 1979

HeadDoctor · 11-12-2006, 09:37 AM

Brian

Thats good you have a 351

Have you looked at the Ford Parts book lately?
It seems that they have some iron heads the N-351* & N-352* bare they are $375.00 ea Retail. Don't remember the chamber cc's but thats an easy fix, with 2.02 & 1.625 valves this should increase your top end considerably, if the cam you are running is correct.

But a cam is cheeper than the heads so over the winter you can change it to see.
Lunati 51012 HYD Roller 292-232-340 Int & 300-242-350 Exh W/1.6 .544-.560 They grind it on a 112 I've run them on a 106 - 108 with no problems.

Next up = 301-242-376 Int & 311-252-370 Exh Same here 106 to 110
Next up = 311-252-370 Int & 319-260-370 Exh Ditto

XE-274H Extreme Energy cam
Int 274-230-.324 Exh 286-236-.326 on 112 W/1.6 518 & 521

Want more top end with your heads put that 252-260 Lunati Hyd Roller in it - Have it ground on 108 LSA.

Denny@JDS Induction Products

1979bruiser · 11-13-2006, 03:56 PM

head doctor-
what cam would you use if i were to go w/ vic jr heads or a trick flow 195cc high port head? i cam across a comp cam 31-640-5 w/ a 10.5:1 piston based on 60cc chambers, performer rpm air gap intake and bbk long tubes.
would you use a dif cam

HeadDoctor · 11-13-2006, 06:48 PM

Bruiser

Thats not enough info to give you a recomendation
Need:
CID
Flow @ Lift
Car Used for?
Car Weight
RPM Range
Trans Type
Type of induction (FI or Carb)
Real C/R not an estimate

Denny@JDS Induction Products

1979bruiser · 11-13-2006, 09:11 PM

msd 6al for ignition
flow of heads advertised is 300 at .600
79 mustang
2900 lbs
6500-6700 shift point
c-4 (wont buy mt stall till i have the cam to be shure what stall speed to use)
carb 750 dbl pmp
and not sure what c/r is-sorry

1979bruiser · 11-13-2006, 09:15 PM

also 351 cid

1979bruiser · 11-13-2006, 10:13 PM

if c/r is comp-ratio then 10.5:1

11-10-2006, 03:04 PM	#21
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	Re: aluminum heads Here's some good reading for ya. It basically confirms what has already been said about Pro Comp and some other things I didn't know about them. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ner/index2.php __________________ '82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator.

11-10-2006, 03:16 PM	#22
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads no big deal if you have to go through the archives , i was just wondering and trying to learn a little more for myself to help other people who might face the same issues that dont go on these forums.thanks everyone.

11-10-2006, 10:30 PM	#23
HeadDoctor Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hot-Lanta Posts: 48	Re: aluminum heads Brian What are you really looking for in a set of heads for your car? Did you read my thread about "How to pick the best head for your engine?" It's more than just an air-flow concern, because the engine is a dynamic machine, consequently all the parts must be married together in order to work in the way that you want it to. This compromise of components must be sorted out before you ever buy any part, because you have to know the limitations of of your wallet as well as what you intend to do with the engine. Similarly if you intend to drive it on the street there are even more compromises to contend with, not he least of which is the awful gas. I understand that you have done you research, on heads but how to fit them to the engine is an altogether different set of conditions. Denny@JDS Induction Products __________________ JDS Induction Products Still The Fastest Ford Heads On The Planet

11-10-2006, 11:25 PM	#24
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	Re: aluminum heads yeah I did read it awhile ago..pretty good stuff. I know it's all about flow velocity and not just how big the runners are and other factors, of course. Here's a good question for you: How large are the runners of a stock 351w head('74) I'm figuring I only need about 170-185cc runners for whatever heads I go with, if I keep my current cam. I think the 205-210 heads are overkill for my setup. I just want to make the right choice because I don't want to end up with something that's too much or something that's no better than what I already have. A 6500-6800 shift point would suite me fine. What's your professional opinion on what I need. I'd like to run high 11's n/a but if it ends up costing me more than what I can afford or willing to pay then I may as well just keep the nitrous and spray my way into the 11's....right? __________________ '82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator.

11-11-2006, 10:18 AM	#25
HeadDoctor Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hot-Lanta Posts: 48	Re: aluminum heads Brian Production cast iron heads are in the 130 to 150 cc range, if you want power in the 2500 to 6500 range then you have to stick with a 1.940 intake valve. I use 80% of the that area to decide how big to make the Int port at the P-Rod squeeze. We can make 400 to 450 hp with production iron heads, at a cost of about $2K. A good set of aluminum heads that will do the same thing will cost about the same money. Your biggest problem is that you have a carbureted engine, and can't take advantage of the "Long-Runner" EFI manifold, which will bring up the low end of the power curve. Along with that you could also get some extra long (40") headers, that would also help this low end torque problem in the 2500 to 6500 range - (See The Engine Masters Challange). CFM @ 302 X 6500/3456=568 CFM @ 347 = 652.6 CFM @ 351 = 665.2 See - Now if you can find a Tunnel-Ram - mill off the carb flanges on the top and weld plates to it to cover the holes. then put 2 Mikuni-Weber or similar on either side of the plenum and wa-la you have a longer runner intake!!! As for the exhaust all you have to do is make some extensions for the primary tubes, get a new set of "Merged" collectors that fit the new diameter extensions and there you have it. This is not the ideal way to accomplish it but it will serve the purpose well enough. If the 2 side-draft carbs are too expensive then think about 1 55mm side draft. Denny@JDS Induction Products __________________ JDS Induction Products Still The Fastest Ford Heads On The Planet

11-11-2006, 10:53 AM	#26
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads CFM @ 302 X 6500/3456=568 CFM @ 347 = 652.6 CFM @ 351 = 665.2 please explain

11-11-2006, 10:56 AM	#27
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads also how does the push rod pinch affect a head. both my local apeed shops told me thats not that important, all the power comes from the bowl area. how do you determine if it should be made wider?

11-11-2006, 08:11 PM	#28
lugthug713 95 GTS 5.0 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Shreveport LA Posts: 24	Re: aluminum heads I dont know what forums are out there talking about those heads but I am also in www.moddedmustangs.com www.allfordmustangs.com www.mustangevolution.com each site has good info

11-11-2006, 08:32 PM	#29
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads i will be shure to check them all out.

11-11-2006, 10:26 PM	#30
10sec80cobra Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Re: aluminum heads 1979 check pm

11-11-2006, 10:47 PM	#31
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads got it, hit you back. thanks

11-11-2006, 11:09 PM	#32
HeadDoctor Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hot-Lanta Posts: 48	Re: aluminum heads Bruiser That is the formula for determining the required CFM of any engine: CFM = Displacement, times, RPM divided by the constant 3456 Thus if Brian is running a 302 CID engine and only wants to turn it 6500 RPM's then all the carb he needs is 568 CFM - By doing this he will increase the throttle response of his engine, with the added benifit of the carb being able to meter the fuel much better because of the high velocity through the boosters. Thats why I suggested the Weber/Mikuni type carb - because of its higher adjustibility!!! Denny@JDS Induction Products __________________ JDS Induction Products Still The Fastest Ford Heads On The Planet

11-12-2006, 08:50 AM	#34
10sec80cobra Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Re: aluminum heads check pm again 1979

11-12-2006, 09:37 AM	#35
HeadDoctor Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hot-Lanta Posts: 48	Re: aluminum heads Brian Thats good you have a 351 Have you looked at the Ford Parts book lately? It seems that they have some iron heads the N-351* & N-352* bare they are $375.00 ea Retail. Don't remember the chamber cc's but thats an easy fix, with 2.02 & 1.625 valves this should increase your top end considerably, if the cam you are running is correct. But a cam is cheeper than the heads so over the winter you can change it to see. Lunati 51012 HYD Roller 292-232-340 Int & 300-242-350 Exh W/1.6 .544-.560 They grind it on a 112 I've run them on a 106 - 108 with no problems. Next up = 301-242-376 Int & 311-252-370 Exh Same here 106 to 110 Next up = 311-252-370 Int & 319-260-370 Exh Ditto XE-274H Extreme Energy cam Int 274-230-.324 Exh 286-236-.326 on 112 W/1.6 518 & 521 Want more top end with your heads put that 252-260 Lunati Hyd Roller in it - Have it ground on 108 LSA. Denny@JDS Induction Products __________________ JDS Induction Products Still The Fastest Ford Heads On The Planet Last edited by HeadDoctor; 11-12-2006 at 09:54 AM..

11-13-2006, 03:56 PM	#36
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads head doctor- what cam would you use if i were to go w/ vic jr heads or a trick flow 195cc high port head? i cam across a comp cam 31-640-5 w/ a 10.5:1 piston based on 60cc chambers, performer rpm air gap intake and bbk long tubes. would you use a dif cam

11-13-2006, 06:48 PM	#37
HeadDoctor Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hot-Lanta Posts: 48	Re: aluminum heads Bruiser Thats not enough info to give you a recomendation Need: CID Flow @ Lift Car Used for? Car Weight RPM Range Trans Type Type of induction (FI or Carb) Real C/R not an estimate Denny@JDS Induction Products __________________ JDS Induction Products Still The Fastest Ford Heads On The Planet

11-13-2006, 09:11 PM	#38
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads msd 6al for ignition flow of heads advertised is 300 at .600 79 mustang 2900 lbs 6500-6700 shift point c-4 (wont buy mt stall till i have the cam to be shure what stall speed to use) carb 750 dbl pmp and not sure what c/r is-sorry

11-13-2006, 09:15 PM	#39
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads also 351 cid

11-13-2006, 10:13 PM	#40
1979bruiser Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: budds creek md Posts: 100	Re: aluminum heads if c/r is comp-ratio then 10.5:1

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