Motor Swap questions 88 cougar to 84 stang

5.0 Fiend · 08-17-2004, 10:12 PM

I blew the engine in my 84 5.0, and I have a couple of questions about swapping parts from my 84 carbed 302, to an 88 5.0 efi. I figure that to convert the 88 efi to a carb, I will have to install my mechanical fuel pump, put on my holley stealth intake (with Holley 750cfm) my main concern with that is, I am not sure if the fuel injectors run into the heads, or the intake manifolds, if they run into the heads, I will have to install my 84 heads, correct? If I am right, the 84 has flat top pistons, while the 88 probably has valve reliefs in the pistons, would this cause a problem (if I even do have to switch heads)? On to my next dillema, the engine has 75,000 miles, does not smoke, and runs good, I am getting it from a junkyard for $350, with a 30 day warranty. I can not mess with the engine for the warranty period, so is it possible to use my mechanical fuel pump with the efi setup (If I am correct you have to use an electric in line, or in-tank pump, right)? Last question, after my warranty is up, I plan on putting my 84 cam/lifters in the 88, (they are aftermarket, but not sure who makes them). What I want to know is, how hard is it to install a cam with the motor in the car, what is the easiest way to do it? If anyone knows the answers, please let me know, thanks.

gmhatr · 08-18-2004, 12:25 AM

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ap/index.shtml
hope that helps???????

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 12:45 AM

Thanks gmhatr

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 04:01 PM

I guess my major concern is, will an efi be easy to hook up to my carb electrical system, and if my mechanical fuel pump will work for my efi, (I am not going to put an electrical pump in, just to go back to my mechanical setup later).

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 05:01 PM

I think I just figured it out. I was looking at an article that was switching an efi chassis car to a carb, the problem was I was getting a headache looking at how to wire my carb system, to the existing hookups, when in fact, my carb electrical hookups are already there, I'll just need to tear the efi harness off. So since I figured out that I will be able to use my mechanical fuel pump now, my last concern is the distributor. If I read the article right, the 88 engine has roller lifters, correct, which means that the cam is a roller cam right? ( I dont know all the different terms and compatabilities for valve train components yet). The thing is, to use my carbed vaccum advance distributor, it needs to have a steel drive gear to work with the roller cam right? (if in fact it is a roller cam). Alright, lastly, I cannot use my flat tappet cam (the bottom of the lifters are flat, so that means flat tappet right?), with the roller lifters correct, and vice versa (tappet lifters, with roller cam. I am sorry if this is confusing, but I want to get the facts straight so I know what I can and cant use on this new engine.

88fivepointoh · 08-18-2004, 07:17 PM

Not worth the hassle, get a new block, and rebiuld it. what did u blow in your car? physical damage to the main block or just piston damage etc.. Basically what happened to your old motor? The conversion will be a pain in the but, and all you would be able to use is the block and heads from the EFI motor. Cam changes in the car are not bad, remove radiator, and AC condensor if equiped, then pull the cam out. obviously the top end has to be removed but you get the idea.

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 09:41 PM

The only thing that I did to my 84 motor was I threw a rod threw the oil pan, (as far as I can see), it still ran on the other cylinders, but it was leaking oil like it was going outta style. I just plan on gettin something decent from a junk yard, because in the meantime I want to build up my 84 block with a good set of heads, roller rockers, cam, barry grant carb, and maybe even a 306, 331, or 347 kit, who knows. I am more of a carb guy, I dont want efi for my play vehicles,(it would be alright if I had a truck or passenger car), I guess I like the way it looks with the old style clamp on filter right in the middle of the engine, kinda gives it an old school muscle car look. P.S, I'm also not a wiring genius.

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 09:46 PM

Also, fivepointoh, will I be able to use the efi cam with the 84 distributor? Will the cam in my 84 work with the roller lifters in the 88?,(it it has them).

~The Jester~ · 08-18-2004, 10:32 PM

NO! '84 was non-roller cam, which is cast iron. Roller cams are forged, so the best thing that'll happen is you'll destroy your cam gear, ie camshaft. Very important here, dist. gear has to be "softer" than cam gear, that's why they sell a bronze ditzy gear dude. When in doubt, go bronze on Ditzy gear!

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 10:42 PM

So if my 84 distributor has a bronze gear, I can use it on the 88?

88fivepointoh · 08-18-2004, 10:44 PM

As jester said, No... The cam gears are of different material and sizes.. If all you did was throw a rod and it didn't cause block damage, to the cylinder wall or anywhere else then re biuld what you have.

88fivepointoh · 08-18-2004, 10:46 PM

acually also, isnt the 88 cougar motor not HO? i think its the same as the lincoln's and mercurys which is a NON HO motor so that would suck beyond control. The way you can tell is A. the firing order is different and B. the intake is reversed to the other side of the car.

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 10:49 PM

Now I am confused, isnt bronze softer than forged steel? If so, the dist. gear would break before the cam which would be good right? Also, fivepointoh, are you saying to just buy one rod, or do a crank/piston/rod rebuild?

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 10:51 PM

The intake points to the right side of the car(i.e. the airbox is by the passenger side headlight).

88fivepointoh · 08-18-2004, 10:59 PM

Rebiuld, Definetly... Now as for the HO or NON HO on the intake plate does it say HO 5.0L or no? Check the firing orders of the cars.. If they are different then forget it all together.

~The Jester~ · 08-18-2004, 11:02 PM

That's backwards dude. The softer metal tends to "give" a little more, whereas the harder stuff just puts shaving into your oil pan.

I'm going with the "fix what's broke" plan on this one. Of course check out ALL components, but like they say "If it ain' broke, don't fix it.".

Make damn sure your upper intake plenum hangs over the Driver's side valve cover, or don't waste your time. I'm a "carb guy" and I even know that one, so there must be SOME truth to it!

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 11:04 PM

The intake manifold just said 5.0 efi I think.y 84 isnt an H.O., at least I dont think so.

~The Jester~ · 08-18-2004, 11:06 PM

'84 wasn't evem EFI so you've got some homework. If the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 then it's an HO 302 or a 351 Windsor. If not, then it's a non-HO

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 11:11 PM

So correct me if I am wrong, 84 dist will not work , I need a steel gear? Also on the intake plenum, the throttle body is over the pass. side valve cover, so if the upper intake curves over the drivers side valve cover, then goes onto the throttle body, it is an H.O.?

5.0 Fiend · 08-18-2004, 11:15 PM

You have me all wrong jester, the efi I am talking about is on an 88 cougar, my 84 has a carb setup that I want to put on the new 88 motor, and I need to find out if my 84 dist. will work on the 88. (88 dist. looks about shot, but if I cant even use the 84 dist I will sell it.

08-17-2004, 10:12 PM	#1
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Motor Swap questions 88 cougar to 84 stang I blew the engine in my 84 5.0, and I have a couple of questions about swapping parts from my 84 carbed 302, to an 88 5.0 efi. I figure that to convert the 88 efi to a carb, I will have to install my mechanical fuel pump, put on my holley stealth intake (with Holley 750cfm) my main concern with that is, I am not sure if the fuel injectors run into the heads, or the intake manifolds, if they run into the heads, I will have to install my 84 heads, correct? If I am right, the 84 has flat top pistons, while the 88 probably has valve reliefs in the pistons, would this cause a problem (if I even do have to switch heads)? On to my next dillema, the engine has 75,000 miles, does not smoke, and runs good, I am getting it from a junkyard for $350, with a 30 day warranty. I can not mess with the engine for the warranty period, so is it possible to use my mechanical fuel pump with the efi setup (If I am correct you have to use an electric in line, or in-tank pump, right)? Last question, after my warranty is up, I plan on putting my 84 cam/lifters in the 88, (they are aftermarket, but not sure who makes them). What I want to know is, how hard is it to install a cam with the motor in the car, what is the easiest way to do it? If anyone knows the answers, please let me know, thanks.

08-18-2004, 10:32 PM	#9
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	NO! '84 was non-roller cam, which is cast iron. Roller cams are forged, so the best thing that'll happen is you'll destroy your cam gear, ie camshaft. Very important here, dist. gear has to be "softer" than cam gear, that's why they sell a bronze ditzy gear dude. When in doubt, go bronze on Ditzy gear! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

08-18-2004, 11:02 PM	#16
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	That's backwards dude. The softer metal tends to "give" a little more, whereas the harder stuff just puts shaving into your oil pan. I'm going with the "fix what's broke" plan on this one. Of course check out ALL components, but like they say "If it ain' broke, don't fix it.". Make damn sure your upper intake plenum hangs over the Driver's side valve cover, or don't waste your time. I'm a "carb guy" and I even know that one, so there must be SOME truth to it! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

08-18-2004, 11:06 PM	#18
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	'84 wasn't evem EFI so you've got some homework. If the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 then it's an HO 302 or a 351 Windsor. If not, then it's a non-HO __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

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08-18-2004, 12:25 AM	#2
gmhatr Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mattoon IL. Posts: 91	http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ap/index.shtml hope that helps???????

08-18-2004, 12:45 AM	#3
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Thanks gmhatr

08-18-2004, 04:01 PM	#4
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	I guess my major concern is, will an efi be easy to hook up to my carb electrical system, and if my mechanical fuel pump will work for my efi, (I am not going to put an electrical pump in, just to go back to my mechanical setup later).

08-18-2004, 05:01 PM	#5
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	I think I just figured it out. I was looking at an article that was switching an efi chassis car to a carb, the problem was I was getting a headache looking at how to wire my carb system, to the existing hookups, when in fact, my carb electrical hookups are already there, I'll just need to tear the efi harness off. So since I figured out that I will be able to use my mechanical fuel pump now, my last concern is the distributor. If I read the article right, the 88 engine has roller lifters, correct, which means that the cam is a roller cam right? ( I dont know all the different terms and compatabilities for valve train components yet). The thing is, to use my carbed vaccum advance distributor, it needs to have a steel drive gear to work with the roller cam right? (if in fact it is a roller cam). Alright, lastly, I cannot use my flat tappet cam (the bottom of the lifters are flat, so that means flat tappet right?), with the roller lifters correct, and vice versa (tappet lifters, with roller cam. I am sorry if this is confusing, but I want to get the facts straight so I know what I can and cant use on this new engine.

08-18-2004, 07:17 PM	#6
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	Not worth the hassle, get a new block, and rebiuld it. what did u blow in your car? physical damage to the main block or just piston damage etc.. Basically what happened to your old motor? The conversion will be a pain in the but, and all you would be able to use is the block and heads from the EFI motor. Cam changes in the car are not bad, remove radiator, and AC condensor if equiped, then pull the cam out. obviously the top end has to be removed but you get the idea.

08-18-2004, 09:41 PM	#7
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	The only thing that I did to my 84 motor was I threw a rod threw the oil pan, (as far as I can see), it still ran on the other cylinders, but it was leaking oil like it was going outta style. I just plan on gettin something decent from a junk yard, because in the meantime I want to build up my 84 block with a good set of heads, roller rockers, cam, barry grant carb, and maybe even a 306, 331, or 347 kit, who knows. I am more of a carb guy, I dont want efi for my play vehicles,(it would be alright if I had a truck or passenger car), I guess I like the way it looks with the old style clamp on filter right in the middle of the engine, kinda gives it an old school muscle car look. P.S, I'm also not a wiring genius.

08-18-2004, 09:46 PM	#8
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Also, fivepointoh, will I be able to use the efi cam with the 84 distributor? Will the cam in my 84 work with the roller lifters in the 88?,(it it has them).

08-18-2004, 10:42 PM	#10
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	So if my 84 distributor has a bronze gear, I can use it on the 88?

08-18-2004, 10:44 PM	#11
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	As jester said, No... The cam gears are of different material and sizes.. If all you did was throw a rod and it didn't cause block damage, to the cylinder wall or anywhere else then re biuld what you have.

08-18-2004, 10:46 PM	#12
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	acually also, isnt the 88 cougar motor not HO? i think its the same as the lincoln's and mercurys which is a NON HO motor so that would suck beyond control. The way you can tell is A. the firing order is different and B. the intake is reversed to the other side of the car.

08-18-2004, 10:49 PM	#13
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	Now I am confused, isnt bronze softer than forged steel? If so, the dist. gear would break before the cam which would be good right? Also, fivepointoh, are you saying to just buy one rod, or do a crank/piston/rod rebuild?

08-18-2004, 10:51 PM	#14
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	The intake points to the right side of the car(i.e. the airbox is by the passenger side headlight).

08-18-2004, 10:59 PM	#15
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	Rebiuld, Definetly... Now as for the HO or NON HO on the intake plate does it say HO 5.0L or no? Check the firing orders of the cars.. If they are different then forget it all together.

08-18-2004, 11:04 PM	#17
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	The intake manifold just said 5.0 efi I think.y 84 isnt an H.O., at least I dont think so.

08-18-2004, 11:11 PM	#19
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	So correct me if I am wrong, 84 dist will not work , I need a steel gear? Also on the intake plenum, the throttle body is over the pass. side valve cover, so if the upper intake curves over the drivers side valve cover, then goes onto the throttle body, it is an H.O.?

08-18-2004, 11:15 PM	#20
5.0 Fiend Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 87	You have me all wrong jester, the efi I am talking about is on an 88 cougar, my 84 has a carb setup that I want to put on the new 88 motor, and I need to find out if my 84 dist. will work on the 88. (88 dist. looks about shot, but if I cant even use the 84 dist I will sell it.