Basic question

stock89 · 01-09-2002, 09:56 PM

Hey guys/gals, got a basic question for you.

I have now started my mods with a steeda 3 point strut tower brace, Moroso cold air, and white face guages. Pullies and gears are next pending some GT seats I found.

With minor mods that I have so far, which size TB would be best? I was thinking of holding out and doing upgraded injectors at the same time as the TB that way I could get the right ones (I understand that TB's must be matched to injectors). In the long term maybe nitros, but no superchargers. What size TB would be best for performance without insanity? I'd prefer to buy the right things the first time and hold off to complete the project instead to doing it 2 or 3 times. Thanks for the advice.

Rob

gtsr515 · 01-09-2002, 10:48 PM

Hey Rob, Good question, but your putting the cart before the horse, most people start modifying at the exhaust , which is a good start, but nothing wrong with upgrading your intake system as well or first, BUT, at this point you will not benefit with a larger throttle body until you increase the size of your Mass Air Meter, and injectors have virtually nothing to do with selecting a throttle body, NOW! let me tell you right now you do not need to upgrade injectors, not for a long time, 19lber's will support quite a bit of modification. I suggest a 75mm Pro-M bullitt Mass Air Meter with a nice conical K&N Air filter, then get a 70mm throttle body, and make sure you have your intake hogged out to match, you will also need to either buy a 70mm EGR spacer to match, or match your own. Best thing to do is sit down with a piece of paper and write down your ultimate goals for the car and then go at it from there. I would love to help, keep in touch with a Private Message.

Good Luck!!!!!!

PKRWUD · 01-09-2002, 11:06 PM

The advice given above is good.

I think you have mistaken your info, though, stock89. The MAF is what needs to be calibrated with the injectors, not the TB. Also, the one rule to remember about TB size is that it should never exceed MAF size.

Good luck!

Take care,
-Chris

chris91LX · 01-09-2002, 11:37 PM

That's good info you've gotten so far. The absolute best thing for you to do right now is figure out where you want to go with the car. Many of the mods you could get, 2 1/2" exhaust, bigger MAF (I like the C&L), bigger throttle body and so forth sound cool, but they will actually hurt you unless you upgrade the entire system, ie intake, heads, cam. And that is where you get into the big money. The pullies and gears are a great start. If your patient the best way to go after that would be to work on your suspension, springs, shocks, upper and lower control arms and sub frame connectors. This will give you a great base to work from and by the time your done you should have a better idea of what you want to do with the motor. Another great investment is a good set of tires, I like the Nitto Drag Radials. Like gtsr515 said the last thing you need to think about right now is biger injectors. The 19# injectors are good to roughly 300hp at the stock fuel pressure and can be used with more hp with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Good luck with your 89, send me a pm if you have any other questions.

tireburner163 · 01-10-2002, 01:07 AM

I maybe be dumb, but I think a 70mm throttle body, is way to big for a engine with stock intake and heads.

Coupe5oh · 01-10-2002, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireburner163
I maybe be dumb, but I think a 70mm throttle body, is way to big for a engine with stock intake and heads.

Nope your not dumb, i met a kid with a coupe like mine, he kept stock gears in it, but got a cobra intake and 70mm tb, rest was stock, i was even more stock, but pulled him everytime, of course driving has alot to do with.

91GTturbo · 01-10-2002, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireburner163
I maybe be dumb, but I think a 70mm throttle body, is way to big for a engine with stock intake and heads.

I agree, a 70 is too big.

fiveohpatrol · 01-10-2002, 01:49 PM

Yes a 70mm is a little big for a stock intake/head car

BUT, he said he wants to do it right the first time (or something like that) and therefore if he is eventually gonna get an aftermarket set of heads and a cam and intake, then the 70mm will be perfect for him.

Then I also just re-read his post and asked which size would be good with his mods so far, in this case actually a stock one will do you fine. There's other things you need to focus your cash on first. Like exhaust/gears/subframes/pulleys blah blah blah. Then you can move on to a 65mm TB (or 70 if you have big plans for it)

faststang90 · 01-10-2002, 05:29 PM

i would say do the exhaust and all the free things (timing ,tps,water lines in the tb off ,coolant temp sensor pull it out an block the hole) adjustable fuel pressure reg ,pulleys race crank cobra water pump pulley and a big a alt130 ,a aluminum drive shaft , a gear ,a good shifter like pro 5.0 , black magic fan
with these mod we have had cars gone as fast as 13.28on a stock motor no port workand had a aod go 13.42 some things

fiveohpatrol · 01-10-2002, 11:49 PM

Don't bypass the coolant lines through the TB, (actually the EGR spacer) believe it or not the coolant going through the line is actually cooler than the exhaust gasses that are brought back up through the EGR spacer. But if you EGR is not connected, then go ahead and do this.

Faststang90 What are you saying about the TPS? There's nothing you can do to it to make more power.

And I'm curious, how exactly does pulling the coolant temp sensor out and blocking the hole add power to the car? How's he gonna know if his car is over heating if he removes it?

faststang90 · 01-11-2002, 03:50 AM

sorry i forgot a few things the tps u set to (.999 volts)better throttle response
and the water lines u block off is if u block egr between the upper and lower
and the sensor is the 1 in the metal lines going to the heater core u do this if u do not have a adj fuel reg your cumputer gets a reading from this and it will make it get more fuel not the eng water temp sensor

hope this helps u understand sorry

stock89 · 01-11-2002, 08:46 AM

Ok, what I've learned so far from this post:

-Do not tamper with the TB (max upgrade w/o intake/head/cam work is 65mm) or MAF yet. (So get intake/head/cam then after that move to TB, MAF, and injectors all at once).
-MAF and TB need to be same size.
-Concentrate on gears, exhaust, pullies, suspension for now.

I was not thinking clearly when I was suggesting TB be matched to Injectors, DUH. I know better than that. Stock injectors are #19, right? One other question- I was chatting with a guy who said he could port/polish my heads in a day. Was he smoking crack? Or is it really that easy? I took the head off the VW diesel and it was a nightmare! (apples vs. oranges, I know) I will NOT go through that again....What's the increase to port/polish stock heads? Is it worth the time/frustration? I hate paying people to work on my car (lack of trust is a factor too), with the exception of gears. The p/p head guy said he'd help me do it since he's experienced for almost no charge. Should I??

Thanks for all the info! I want to do it right w/o several tries....

PKRWUD · 01-11-2002, 11:25 AM

First, never exceed .95vdc for your TPS. I'm tired of explaining it, so you're just going to have to trust me.

It's not worth $50 to p/p stock heads, so, if it costs you less than that, or if the experience is worth more than that to you, then go for it. I always encourage anyone who wants to learn hands on, but don't expect any power increase.

As far as a diesel VW goes, that was the worst job I ever had, and I won't do it again. Many years ago when I was still pretty wet behind the ears, a friends girlfriend talked me into replacing the head gasket on her diesel Rabbit. That car was possessed by the devil himself. The word "nightmare' doesn't even begin to do it justice. I'd rather do 5 turbo Volvos than 1 diesel Rabbit. I really wish you hadn't mentioned it. I'm developing a twitch already.

Take care,
-Chris

stock89 · 01-11-2002, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD

That car was possessed by the devil himself. The word "nightmare' doesn't even begin to do it justice. I'd rather do 5 turbo Volvos than 1 diesel Rabbit. I really wish you hadn't mentioned it. I'm developing a twitch already.

Take care,
-Chris

Chris,
I'm STILL fighting that thing. One day it's great, next day it runs like crap! LMAO at your "possessed by the devil" and "twitching"... As you can see by my signature- it's "hers".

PKRWUD · 01-12-2002, 03:35 AM

Oh, you poor, poor man. I truly can't express enough sorrow and emotion on paper (screen) to do your pains justice, and for that, I am very sorry.

Take care,
-Chris

01-09-2002, 10:48 PM	#2
gtsr515 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sunny, Hot, Sebring, Florida Posts: 725	Hey Rob, Good question, but your putting the cart before the horse, most people start modifying at the exhaust , which is a good start, but nothing wrong with upgrading your intake system as well or first, BUT, at this point you will not benefit with a larger throttle body until you increase the size of your Mass Air Meter, and injectors have virtually nothing to do with selecting a throttle body, NOW! let me tell you right now you do not need to upgrade injectors, not for a long time, 19lber's will support quite a bit of modification. I suggest a 75mm Pro-M bullitt Mass Air Meter with a nice conical K&N Air filter, then get a 70mm throttle body, and make sure you have your intake hogged out to match, you will also need to either buy a 70mm EGR spacer to match, or match your own. Best thing to do is sit down with a piece of paper and write down your ultimate goals for the car and then go at it from there. I would love to help, keep in touch with a Private Message. Good Luck!!!!!! __________________ Remember...2nd place is 1st place for losers!

01-09-2002, 11:06 PM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	The advice given above is good. I think you have mistaken your info, though, stock89. The MAF is what needs to be calibrated with the injectors, not the TB. Also, the one rule to remember about TB size is that it should never exceed MAF size. Good luck! Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

01-09-2002, 11:37 PM	#4
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	That's good info you've gotten so far. The absolute best thing for you to do right now is figure out where you want to go with the car. Many of the mods you could get, 2 1/2" exhaust, bigger MAF (I like the C&L), bigger throttle body and so forth sound cool, but they will actually hurt you unless you upgrade the entire system, ie intake, heads, cam. And that is where you get into the big money. The pullies and gears are a great start. If your patient the best way to go after that would be to work on your suspension, springs, shocks, upper and lower control arms and sub frame connectors. This will give you a great base to work from and by the time your done you should have a better idea of what you want to do with the motor. Another great investment is a good set of tires, I like the Nitto Drag Radials. Like gtsr515 said the last thing you need to think about right now is biger injectors. The 19# injectors are good to roughly 300hp at the stock fuel pressure and can be used with more hp with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Good luck with your 89, send me a pm if you have any other questions. __________________ My Ford Club http://www.midwestfords.org/ Best time N/A 12.9 @ 107 1.711 60' 125 shot - 12.04 @ 113 1.59 60' Last edited by chris91LX; 01-10-2002 at 12:01 AM..

01-10-2002, 01:07 AM	#5
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	I maybe be dumb, but I think a 70mm throttle body, is way to big for a engine with stock intake and heads. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

01-10-2002, 01:49 PM	#8
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Yes a 70mm is a little big for a stock intake/head car BUT, he said he wants to do it right the first time (or something like that) and therefore if he is eventually gonna get an aftermarket set of heads and a cam and intake, then the 70mm will be perfect for him. Then I also just re-read his post and asked which size would be good with his mods so far, in this case actually a stock one will do you fine. There's other things you need to focus your cash on first. Like exhaust/gears/subframes/pulleys blah blah blah. Then you can move on to a 65mm TB (or 70 if you have big plans for it) __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

01-09-2002, 09:56 PM	#1
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	Basic question Hey guys/gals, got a basic question for you. I have now started my mods with a steeda 3 point strut tower brace, Moroso cold air, and white face guages. Pullies and gears are next pending some GT seats I found. With minor mods that I have so far, which size TB would be best? I was thinking of holding out and doing upgraded injectors at the same time as the TB that way I could get the right ones (I understand that TB's must be matched to injectors). In the long term maybe nitros, but no superchargers. What size TB would be best for performance without insanity? I'd prefer to buy the right things the first time and hold off to complete the project instead to doing it 2 or 3 times. Thanks for the advice. Rob __________________ 89 LX 5.0 Notchback, FINALLY NO LONGER STOCK!

01-10-2002, 05:29 PM	#9
faststang90 Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: baytown,tx,us Posts: 128	i would say do the exhaust and all the free things (timing ,tps,water lines in the tb off ,coolant temp sensor pull it out an block the hole) adjustable fuel pressure reg ,pulleys race crank cobra water pump pulley and a big a alt130 ,a aluminum drive shaft , a gear ,a good shifter like pro 5.0 , black magic fan with these mod we have had cars gone as fast as 13.28on a stock motor no port workand had a aod go 13.42 some things

01-10-2002, 11:49 PM	#10
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Don't bypass the coolant lines through the TB, (actually the EGR spacer) believe it or not the coolant going through the line is actually cooler than the exhaust gasses that are brought back up through the EGR spacer. But if you EGR is not connected, then go ahead and do this. Faststang90 What are you saying about the TPS? There's nothing you can do to it to make more power. And I'm curious, how exactly does pulling the coolant temp sensor out and blocking the hole add power to the car? How's he gonna know if his car is over heating if he removes it? __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

01-11-2002, 03:50 AM	#11
faststang90 Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: baytown,tx,us Posts: 128	sorry i forgot a few things the tps u set to (.999 volts)better throttle response and the water lines u block off is if u block egr between the upper and lower and the sensor is the 1 in the metal lines going to the heater core u do this if u do not have a adj fuel reg your cumputer gets a reading from this and it will make it get more fuel not the eng water temp sensor hope this helps u understand sorry

01-11-2002, 08:46 AM	#12
stock89 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mannheim, Germany Posts: 124	Great! Ok, what I've learned so far from this post: -Do not tamper with the TB (max upgrade w/o intake/head/cam work is 65mm) or MAF yet. (So get intake/head/cam then after that move to TB, MAF, and injectors all at once). -MAF and TB need to be same size. -Concentrate on gears, exhaust, pullies, suspension for now. I was not thinking clearly when I was suggesting TB be matched to Injectors, DUH. I know better than that. Stock injectors are #19, right? One other question- I was chatting with a guy who said he could port/polish my heads in a day. Was he smoking crack? Or is it really that easy? I took the head off the VW diesel and it was a nightmare! (apples vs. oranges, I know) I will NOT go through that again....What's the increase to port/polish stock heads? Is it worth the time/frustration? I hate paying people to work on my car (lack of trust is a factor too), with the exception of gears. The p/p head guy said he'd help me do it since he's experienced for almost no charge. Should I?? Thanks for all the info! I want to do it right w/o several tries....

01-11-2002, 11:25 AM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	First, never exceed .95vdc for your TPS. I'm tired of explaining it, so you're just going to have to trust me. It's not worth $50 to p/p stock heads, so, if it costs you less than that, or if the experience is worth more than that to you, then go for it. I always encourage anyone who wants to learn hands on, but don't expect any power increase. As far as a diesel VW goes, that was the worst job I ever had, and I won't do it again. Many years ago when I was still pretty wet behind the ears, a friends girlfriend talked me into replacing the head gasket on her diesel Rabbit. That car was possessed by the devil himself. The word "nightmare' doesn't even begin to do it justice. I'd rather do 5 turbo Volvos than 1 diesel Rabbit. I really wish you hadn't mentioned it. I'm developing a twitch already. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

01-12-2002, 03:35 AM	#15
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Oh, you poor, poor man. I truly can't express enough sorrow and emotion on paper (screen) to do your pains justice, and for that, I am very sorry. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

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